PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

[Rajput Lion]

Putin saying "no issues or limits" has defined this whole acquisition for us. Period.

 

[lmaoxd]

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Crazy to think that Russia is gonna deploy their second 5-5.5th Generation Aircraft before the AMCA. @Hyperactive ADD was right, apart from the Americans, no country can compete with the military industrial complex of the Russians and they are more pragmatic and realistic than American's in their approach. I felt that Russians were better Aircraft makers than American's for quite some time but people tend to confuse the affects of the collapse of the Soviet Union and their lost decade on their industrial complex as somehow a lack of their capability which is obviously not true.

Su75 Checkmate is Russia's first single engine aircraft and I like it for a lot of reasons,

The control surfaces on the Su-75 is quite unique - or maybe even revolutionary! It would be interesting to see what effect the extreme angle the inner flaps would have on aerodynamics (esp maneuverability). The beaver tail is yet another quite unique innovation.
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Makes sense since the Russia's Su57 was the first to employ a lot of things like Levcon's which other 6th gen designs wanted to copy, Russia is simply ahead of the curve than everyone in this matter. Not to mention the multiband arrays and such.

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First jet after the Americans and Chinese to employ Diverterless Supersonic Inlet with performance optimal for transonic speed which is the critical range of speed used in operation like air combat and high speed low level penetration. The intakes also being close to the nose will prevent a well developed boundary layer from forming and hence the intake will encounter a thinner boundary which will make it easier for the DSI to divert low energy air before it reaches the engine, this seems like a good design compromise.

The Su75 is everything the F35 was supposed to be but failed at doing so, Su75 will be a low cost stealth jet which will be relatively cheap to procure. From what I can gather here and there the competition might be completely overwhelmed and in shock when they see the price tag. They won't believe it or it's impossible or it's just an outright lie! It is even expected that operational cost per hour of the new Sukhoi fighter will be six to seven times lower than that of the F-35 and for the price of one Indian Rafale buy eight to eleven of these while it's a generation ahead. Even if the checkmate costs twice as much as expected, judging by the price to operate them, it's a bargain for everyone.

The Su75 has 30% range than F35, almost similar weapons payload capacity and able to carry 5 BVRAAM missiles in stealth configuration, higher service ceiling, It will also feature an open architecture to integrate non russian systems, it will also probably have a multiband array for stealth detection, an EOTS system under cockpit like F35 and J20.
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I would like to hear other's opinion as well.

Both the americans and russians are a lot slower than the chinese right now, yea China might waste a lot of money on projects that may turn out to be useless in the end but they invest in A LOT of projects so even if only 50% of the projects succeed they still vastly outnumber both, the su75 isnt even fully funded yet so Its not going to fly for another 2-3 years minimum.

 

[Speedster1]

Putin saying "no issues or limits" has defined this whole acquisition for us. Period.

He knows GoI doesn't always follow through even on signed 'inter governmental agreements' (which are nothing more than MoUs at the end of the day). Case in point: Ka-226, MTA/IRTA, etc.

With the Russians, you have to read the fine print to truly understand the issues and limits couched in diplomatic language.

 

[Rajput Lion]

He knows GoI doesn't always follow through even on signed 'inter governmental agreements' (which are nothing more than MoUs at the end of the day). Case in point: Ka-226, MTA/IRTA, etc.

With the Russians, you have to read the fine print to truly understand the issues and limits couched in diplomatic language.

All deals that have previously faultered was either because of some foreign supplier or Russian reluctance to share critical tech with us. But with Russian president himself coming out and saying "no issues, no limits" isn't just a message to GOI but dawn of a new era in Indo-Russian military cooperation.

PS: Post Ajit Doval-Shugayev meet in Moscow, the roadmap has now reached New Delhi and thoroughly discussed. Hopefully, we will hear more during Russian president's Sep Visit.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

View attachment 52127
View attachment 52126
Crazy to think that Russia is gonna deploy their second 5-5.5th Generation Aircraft before the AMCA. @Hyperactive ADD was right, apart from the Americans, no country can compete with the military industrial complex of the Russians and they are more pragmatic and realistic than American's in their approach. I felt that Russians were better Aircraft makers than American's for quite some time but people tend to confuse the affects of the collapse of the Soviet Union and their lost decade on their industrial complex as somehow a lack of their capability which is obviously not true.

Su75 Checkmate is Russia's first single engine aircraft and I like it for a lot of reasons,

The control surfaces on the Su-75 is quite unique - or maybe even revolutionary! It would be interesting to see what effect the extreme angle the inner flaps would have on aerodynamics (esp maneuverability). The beaver tail is yet another quite unique innovation.
View attachment 52128
Makes sense since the Russia's Su57 was the first to employ a lot of things like Levcon's which other 6th gen designs wanted to copy, Russia is simply ahead of the curve than everyone in this matter. Not to mention the multiband arrays and such.

View attachment 52129
First jet after the Americans and Chinese to employ Diverterless Supersonic Inlet with performance optimal for transonic speed which is the critical range of speed used in operation like air combat and high speed low level penetration. The intakes also being close to the nose will prevent a well developed boundary layer from forming and hence the intake will encounter a thinner boundary which will make it easier for the DSI to divert low energy air before it reaches the engine, this seems like a good design compromise.

The Su75 is everything the F35 was supposed to be but failed at doing so, Su75 will be a low cost stealth jet which will be relatively cheap to procure. From what I can gather here and there the competition might be completely overwhelmed and in shock when they see the price tag. They won't believe it or it's impossible or it's just an outright lie! It is even expected that operational cost per hour of the new Sukhoi fighter will be six to seven times lower than that of the F-35 and for the price of one Indian Rafale buy eight to eleven of these while it's a generation ahead. Even if the checkmate costs twice as much as expected, judging by the price to operate them, it's a bargain for everyone.

The Su75 has 30% range than F35, almost similar weapons payload capacity and able to carry 5 BVRAAM missiles in stealth configuration, higher service ceiling, It will also feature an open architecture to integrate non russian systems, it will also probably have a multiband array for stealth detection, an EOTS system under cockpit like F35 and J20.
View attachment 52131
I would like to hear other's opinion as well.

If Su-57 joins IAF then later its girlfriend will also try to join.

 

[Rajput Lion]

If Su-57 joins IAF then later its girlfriend will also try to join.

No chance and no thanks. Su-57 is a super plane while Su-75 is just a cheap 5th gen jet for 2nd tier air-forces. As far as our 5th gen plans go, it's going to be structured around 140-200 Su-57D/60MKI & 250+ AMCAs(along with 20-25 squadrons of stealthy UCAVs like Ghatak/FUFA etc.).

 

[Speedster1]

All deals that have previously faultered was either because of some foreign supplier or Russian reluctance to share critical tech with us. But with Russian president himself coming out and saying "no issues, no limits" isn't just a message to GOI but dawn of a new era in Indo-Russian military cooperation.

PS: Post Ajit Doval-Shugayev meet in Moscow, the roadmap has now reached New Delhi and thoroughly discussed. Hopefully, we will hear more during Russian president's Sep Visit.

The last time he was here, no details related to mil purchases from Ru were released. The IAF has also been tight-lipped about Su-57 all this while. GoI is playing its cards close to its chest.

 

[batman]

No chance and no thanks. Su-57 is a super plane while Su-75 is just a cheap 5th gen jet for 2nd tier air-forces. As far as our 5th gen plans go, it's going to be structured around 140-200 Su-57D/60MKI & 250+ AMCAs(along with 20-25 squadrons of stealthy UCAVs like Ghatak/FUFA etc.).

I don't see why a 5-5. 5th gen fighter which is cheaper to operate necessarily means it should be for 2nd tier airforce, it has good stealth, great combat range, good bvr capabilities, probability good maneuverability as well and will be a great fit for a mix of Hi-Lo combo but your point also makes sense, no country would be operating multiple foreign bought 5th gen fighters especially the Su57 which Russia would be producing for their own since its the best fighter jet ever made and Su75 would be more easier to export and maintain tactical superiority.

 

[Lolwa]

If Su-57 joins IAF then later its girlfriend will also try to join.

It should be the logical move. In fact the IAF needs to start developing aircrafts on the basis of the adour mk811, rd-33 and al-31fp. Much faster development time and less time for certification required.
Just make a quad engined stealth fighter bomber on the al-31fp and we have our own desi j-36 with thrust vectoring.