PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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Both the americans and russians are a lot slower than the chinese right now, yea China might waste a lot of money on projects that may turn out to be useless in the end but they invest in A LOT of projects so even if only 50% of the projects succeed they still vastly outnumber both, the su75 isnt even fully funded yet so Its not going to fly for another 2-3 years minimum.
He knows GoI doesn't always follow through even on signed 'inter governmental agreements' (which are nothing more than MoUs at the end of the day). Case in point: Ka-226, MTA/IRTA, etc.
With the Russians, you have to read the fine print to truly understand the issues and limits couched in diplomatic language.
All deals that have previously faultered was either because of some foreign supplier or Russian reluctance to share critical tech with us. But with Russian president himself coming out and saying "no issues, no limits" isn't just a message to GOI but dawn of a new era in Indo-Russian military cooperation.
PS: Post Ajit Doval-Shugayev meet in Moscow, the roadmap has now reached New Delhi and thoroughly discussed. Hopefully, we will hear more during Russian president's Sep Visit.
No chance and no thanks. Su-57 is a super plane while Su-75 is just a cheap 5th gen jet for 2nd tier air-forces. As far as our 5th gen plans go, it's going to be structured around 140-200 Su-57D/60MKI & 250+ AMCAs(along with 20-25 squadrons of stealthy UCAVs like Ghatak/FUFA etc.).If Su-57 joins IAF then later its girlfriend will also try to join.
The last time he was here, no details related to mil purchases from Ru were released. The IAF has also been tight-lipped about Su-57 all this while. GoI is playing its cards close to its chest.
I don't see why a 5-5. 5th gen fighter which is cheaper to operate necessarily means it should be for 2nd tier airforce, it has good stealth, great combat range, good bvr capabilities, probability good maneuverability as well and will be a great fit for a mix of Hi-Lo combo but your point also makes sense, no country would be operating multiple foreign bought 5th gen fighters especially the Su57 which Russia would be producing for their own since its the best fighter jet ever made and Su75 would be more easier to export and maintain tactical superiority.
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It should be the logical move. In fact the IAF needs to start developing aircrafts on the basis of the adour mk811, rd-33 and al-31fp. Much faster development time and less time for certification required.If Su-57 joins IAF then later its girlfriend will also try to join.
Just make a quad engined stealth fighter bomber on the al-31fp and we have our own desi j-36 with thrust vectoring.
Deploying an influx of fraudulent, low-utility platforms systematically evades the foundational issue—namely, the structural pathology of core propulsion architecture. This is not a matter of a fifty-percent marginal probability; it is an empirically undeniable diagnostic failure. The cumulative operational efficacy of three or four of these iterations fails to match a single, unified foreign baseline.
In armored warfare, a scattered lineage of four or five distinct tank designations remains structurally inferior to a singular T-64B platform.
In tactical aviation, the concurrent development of eight or nine fighter airframes lacks the aggregate combat utility to challenge a Su-57, let alone match the standard of an F-35.
In naval architecture, an oversized fleet of fragmented hull designs remains thoroughly outclassed by the singular baseline of an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer
A clinical audit of the triad of strategic sub-systems referenced above reveals that the foundational vulnerability is, in engineering reality, a core propulsion deficiency.
The state apparatus fundamentally lacks a compact armored propulsion baseline to rival the V2 or 5TD lineages; it lacks tactical aviation powerplants scaling to the benchmark of the AL-31F or Item 117S architectures; and it remains entirely divorced from the marine gas turbine efficiency demonstrated by the LM2500 standard.
The resulting output is merely a proliferation of sub-optimal, redundant iterations devoid of true strategic utility
Do you genuinely harbor an affinity for an aerodynamic monstrosity powered by a tri-engine configuration, burdened with a dorsally-mounted intake, saddled with a drag-inducing side-by-side twin-seat cockpit, and completely stripped of both thrust-vectoring capabilities and an internal autocannon? a stupid scale model.
I guess GOI may not revel any details of Su-57 due to western partners
After the parliamentary recommendation, its almost clear that india will buy Su-57
But most probably will be downplayed so that Western Govt dont feel uncomfortable answering their citizens that why they are fine with it (westerns, specially liberals are extremely anti russians, not just russia but russian too, they hate russia more than an avg indian hate pakistan )
Russian engines especially the modern ones are reliable ones and Russia has been a time tested partner, we wouldn't have to worry so much if tejas and amca was based on a Russian engine instead of American one.
Don't even understand their deep hatred for Russia, they never started a war with America like Pakistan with us, never did terrorist attacks, never had border conflicts with them etc is their predecessor being communist enough to harbour deep hate by the Americans even though Russia is capitalist now? I understand their government having strong feelings but their citizens not so much.
What's your take on the Su75 Checkmate?
I know the design is not refined infact juvenile for knowledgeable people. Infact the only good airframe designs by the Chinese are the j-10 and the j-11/16 and those designs are not even in Chinese in origin (j-10 being Israeli and j-11/16 being su-27/30 copies).
But j-36 on a pure technical standpoint poses a danger similar to a B-21 in fact more considering it will have the ability to carry BVR missiles and will be to able to employ pl-17 in it's iwb.
The inferiority of the Chinese in engine and power management is leading them to do what we call jugaad(to make a solution based on lack of logic of ability but solution fulfills the situation requirement at that moment).
Their inability to make a next generation engine and mastering sealth has led them to make designs that are technically not sound but will pose threat to any peer due to the progress in electronics.
It's still a step up and an improvement over the abomination that is the j-20.
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Not anymore. Doval-Shugayev meet in Moscow was definitive. Few days ago, ACM made it clear to Def Min that acquiring Su-57D/60MKI is imperative and won't curtail AMCA programme at all rather work as complementary system.
Soon, you all will listen/get confirmation from credible/official sources regarding IAF procuring heavily customised Su-57D/60MKI, which is what I have trying to say for the last few years.
The Russians wanted India to buy the jet without any technical documentation. It wasn't a true JV.
They made the right call too considering FOC of the Su-57M has shifted from 2021 to practically 2030.
So the offer was changed from a JV to a future decision after it's fully developed. Putin recently said the same thing.
India has always had a history of splitting the air force fleet between Russian and Western jets.
No one's claiming 4th gen can be upgraded to 5th gen. But M88-4E and F414 come with new core designs and are 4.5th gen. Let's not forget F414 beat EJ200 in India for LCA Mk2. And the EJ200 on offer was upgraded from the baseline model operational on Typhoon.
Why is the J20 a abomination? If they sort the engine issues, it's a capable 5th gen jet.