PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

[Hyperactive ADD]

Does exceptionally hating USA & venting your emotions, abusing members on foreign forums make F-22 disappear or improve a day in your life?


I asked you to tell us which browser, search engine, websites the citizens of all countries should use.
You are also free to provide data but you don't want F-22 data to exist.


And i also said may be in MLU.
Or perhaps Americans want to rely on compensating for it via networking with other assets.



Nothing special about it, not a UFO tech.
Even if you're taken in front of F-22, allowed to touch it, pointed at it & told "see, here is this XYZ antenna", still you won't accept it.
You want to accept Su-57 specs, pics, diagrams, infographics, but not F-22's.


View attachment 52387

View attachment 52392

View attachment 52394

View attachment 52393




Link-16 uses high-power, omni-directional transmissions, which compromises the F-22's stealth.
For secure, two-way sharing, it relied on a unique, directional stealth datalink known as IFDL (Intra-Flight Data-Link), which meant it could not easily share its sensor data with legacy fourth-generation jets.
RACR (Raptor Agile Capability release) upgrade address this issue.
But IFDL worked well among F-22s.
2013 onwards F-22 got Link-16 receive capability.
2020 onwards, USAF began equipping the F-22 fleet with MIDS-JTRS (Multifunctional Information Distribution System Joint Tactical Radio System) terminals, granting the F-22 full two-way (transmit and receive) Link-16 capability.

View attachment 52386



Earlier along with AIM-260 JATM, there were talks to have some custom AGM like F-35 has AGM-88G-AARGM-ER, NSM/JSM, MAKO, etc.
If the MLU doesn't include them in IWB then there's still chance to be carried externally.
Let's see.


AIM-260 JATM


I'm sorry to say - Your comparisons & analogies are totally out of domain, out of timeline hence illogical because -

- earlier with car, now with videogame, cellphone.​

- YF-22 flew in 1990. In 1990s, F-22's CIPs were compared to average supercomputer.​

- F-22 flew in 1997,​

- iPhone-3 was released in 2008, operated at few 100 MIPS. But even same powerful computer H/w but for different application cannot be compared straight.​

- Su-57 flew in 2010, so its computers would be expected to be better but doesnt look like that.​

- 2012 onwards F-22 computers got upgraded in Increment 3.1 & 3.2A.​

- In 2020s the upgrades have continued, specs supposd to be secret.​

- As per current search on your hated Google, F-22's CPU runs at 10.5 (BIPS) billion instructions per second, while Su-57 computers operate at 2-3 BIPS. If this is wrong, you can provide correct data.​

What do you do for living?



....
I'm not in favor of importing US fighter jets, so this cheap, uncivilised "daddy" comment doesn't apply to me.

Your laptop/PC in front of you.
Your preferred OS, browser, search engine site with you.
Yet you don't/can't/won't search.
If you spent 30 years in internet search means you're in 40s age, so start communicating in civilized way. As Chinese citizen you represent China. Please do so nicely.

Thank you for writing so much.
But the reality is, the F-22 is over—it's dead.
The production lines are gone, the suppliers and supporting systems have dissolved…
Maintenance these days mostly relies on cannibalizing parts from other airframes.

Altogether, fewer than 200 were built, and a couple of years ago they tried to pitch them to the Japanese, but the Japanese didn't want this junk.
Whether from a project management perspective or in terms of actual combat value, it's worthless. They've been permanently stationed in Alaska, supposedly to "intercept" Tupolev bombers carrying cruise missiles with a range of 5,500 kilometers…

However, based on its mission range data, it probably couldn't even fly half the distance to the enemy carrier aircraft's missile launch point.
Meanwhile, the Tu‑160 can launch its missiles over the North Pole, then turn back and reload. By the time the first wave of missiles hasn't even reached the U.S. mainland, the aircraft carrying the second wave of missiles has already taken off…




Oh, and sure, when you Google "L-band," you'll find that L-band antennas can be useful.
But your Google search won't turn up any news about upgrades—because from now on, upgrades are done in secret, right?

And what about that fantasy AIG-260?
If you're going to stretch that far, then 20 years ago Sukhoi and even MiG-29s were already carrying the KS-172 with a range of over 400 kilometers.
This missile has also undergone several more iterations.


Its maturity is way higher than that of the AIM-260, not to mention the R‑33 and R‑37


And what can a paper-thin weapons bay like that even do?

Maybe you should first sort out the difference between L‑band antennas and L‑band radar.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Does exceptionally hating USA & venting your emotions, abusing members on foreign forums make F-22 disappear or improve a day in your life?


I asked you to tell us which browser, search engine, websites the citizens of all countries should use.
You are also free to provide data but you don't want F-22 data to exist.


And i also said may be in MLU.
Or perhaps Americans want to rely on compensating for it via networking with other assets.



Nothing special about it, not a UFO tech.
Even if you're taken in front of F-22, allowed to touch it, pointed at it & told "see, here is this XYZ antenna", still you won't accept it.
You want to accept Su-57 specs, pics, diagrams, infographics, but not F-22's.


View attachment 52387

View attachment 52392

View attachment 52394

View attachment 52393




Link-16 uses high-power, omni-directional transmissions, which compromises the F-22's stealth.
For secure, two-way sharing, it relied on a unique, directional stealth datalink known as IFDL (Intra-Flight Data-Link), which meant it could not easily share its sensor data with legacy fourth-generation jets.
RACR (Raptor Agile Capability release) upgrade address this issue.
But IFDL worked well among F-22s.
2013 onwards F-22 got Link-16 receive capability.
2020 onwards, USAF began equipping the F-22 fleet with MIDS-JTRS (Multifunctional Information Distribution System Joint Tactical Radio System) terminals, granting the F-22 full two-way (transmit and receive) Link-16 capability.

View attachment 52386



Earlier along with AIM-260 JATM, there were talks to have some custom AGM like F-35 has AGM-88G-AARGM-ER, NSM/JSM, MAKO, etc.
If the MLU doesn't include them in IWB then there's still chance to be carried externally.
Let's see.


AIM-260 JATM


I'm sorry to say - Your comparisons & analogies are totally out of domain, out of timeline hence illogical because -

- earlier with car, now with videogame, cellphone.​

- YF-22 flew in 1990. In 1990s, F-22's CIPs were compared to average supercomputer.​

- F-22 flew in 1997,​

- iPhone-3 was released in 2008, operated at few 100 MIPS. But even same powerful computer H/w but for different application cannot be compared straight.​

- Su-57 flew in 2010, so its computers would be expected to be better but doesnt look like that.​

- 2012 onwards F-22 computers got upgraded in Increment 3.1 & 3.2A.​

- In 2020s the upgrades have continued, specs supposd to be secret.​

- As per current search on your hated Google, F-22's CPU runs at 10.5 (BIPS) billion instructions per second, while Su-57 computers operate at 2-3 BIPS. If this is wrong, you can provide correct data.​

What do you do for living?



....
I'm not in favor of importing US fighter jets, so this cheap, uncivilised "daddy" comment doesn't apply to me.

Your laptop/PC in front of you.
Your preferred OS, browser, search engine site with you.
Yet you don't/can't/won't search.
If you spent 30 years in internet search means you're in 40s age, so start communicating in civilized way. As Chinese citizen you represent China. Please do so nicely.

Anyway, just like you believe the Su-57's belly isn't flat and that ruins its RCS,
I too have solid evidence and good reason to believe the F-22's skin craftsmanship is far, far worse than the F-16's — and that right there screws up its RCS performance.

Skin workmanship so horrifying you'd rarely even find it among the rejects in a Chinese aircraft factory.

But since it touches the reputation of American daddy, nobody dares to bring it up — that's all.

Just imagine if an aircraft from any other country turned out looking like that — the sheer scale of condemnation and verbal flaying it would face is anyone's guess... When it comes to craftsmanship, American companies could really stand to take a lesson from Turkey.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

- As per current search on your hated Google, F-22's CPU runs at 10.5 (BIPS) billion instructions per second, while Su-57 computers operate at 2-3 BIPS. If this is wrong, you can provide correct data.​

- I'm just an average IT engineer in 40s & enthusiast on military. What about you?

Don't know if IT engineers are really all that hot stuff these days, but the level of confidence is certainly extraordinary.

Or is it that people in your line of work reckon that, in today’s business and living environment, getting hold of a few usable chips is like climbing to heaven — or do you lot think Russian programmers are worse coders than you and just can't manage the localized adaptation of Western chips?


The Su-33UB carries a computing capability of 10 BIPS — equivalent to the F-22's central computer.
Starting from Lot 5, the F-22 carries a single IBM PowerPC 603e processor clocked at 66 MHz, delivering 100 MIPS, with 300 MB of RAM.


the Su-35S carries 5 modules totaling 8 computers, separately handling image/digital signals, data/control, image comparison, communication control, and signal conversion. Among them, computers 1 and 3 each possess a processing capability of 800 MIPS.

And let's not even get started on the Su-57 — oh, that's just adorable. The Su-57 carries two computer modules in mutual backup, delivering over 3000 MIPS.
Of course, this was the initial flight test technology in 2012. It's unclear whether it has changed since then, considering that 13 years have passed and the T-50 has become the SU-57.


I can't help but wonder — are you gambling on me, betting that I'm just another "ordinary enthusiast" like you? Betting that I can't do anything more than Google（the same to you）?

I actually went and Googled those images myself — sure enough,
they're nowhere to be found. So I just blurred out the model designations. Heh.

 

[Barcid]

F22 is bad, only 187 were built.
Su57 so good only 76 have been ordered by Russia. No export customers yet.
Russian airforce plans to order more flanker variants instead of ordering more su57.
So good Su57.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

F22 is bad, only 187 were built.
Su57 so good only 76 have been ordered by Russia. No export customers yet.
Russian airforce plans to order more flanker variants instead of ordering more su57.
So good Su57.

That '76' is merely data from before 2022.
Since then, have entered an era of total information blackout

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

You're still giving emotional, impulsive, personal replies.
Many people don't look at +/- points of a product but end up emotionally supporting or opposing it. I don't do that. For example i never said that J-20/35/36/50 are shit, tin cans, etc.
.

Thank you for writing so much.
But the reality is, the F-22 is over—it's dead.
The production lines are gone, the suppliers and supporting systems have dissolved…
Maintenance these days mostly relies on cannibalizing parts from other airframes.

Altogether, fewer than 200 were built, and a couple of years ago they tried to pitch them to the Japanese, but the Japanese didn't want this junk.
Whether from a project management perspective or in terms of actual combat value, it's worthless. They've been permanently stationed in Alaska, supposedly to "intercept" Tupolev bombers carrying cruise missiles with a range of 5,500 kilometers…

However, based on its mission range data, it probably couldn't even fly half the distance to the enemy carrier aircraft's missile launch point.
Meanwhile, the Tu‑160 can launch its missiles over the North Pole, then turn back and reload. By the time the first wave of missiles hasn't even reached the U.S. mainland, the aircraft carrying the second wave of missiles has already taken off…

- Japanese requirement not needed here.
- A jet is dead/over when retired.
- 11 Bn$ MLU means alive for next say 20 years.
- 5gen will have to supplement 6gen.
- F-22 in USA need to be stationed only at few strategic places, Alaska being highest threat, some at overseas & allied bases.
- For every AF & navy, initial attack against other nation located far could be done but tough to sustain war especially from sea.
- Same tactics can be used by both sides like Cruise Missiles, Ballistic Missiles, drones, etc,

Oh, and sure, when you Google "L-band," you'll find that L-band antennas can be useful.
But your Google search won't turn up any news about upgrades—because from now on, upgrades are done in secret, right?

- 3rd time let me ask you - what should we use instead of Google? Chinese browser & search engine?
- Google AI searches pages of all types of sites related to topic of question & presents summary. So when DoD or someone says something on some website about the upgrade, the summary'll be presented accordingly.

And what about that fantasy AIG-260?

AIM, not AIG

If you're going to stretch that far, then 20 years ago Sukhoi and even MiG-29s were already carrying the KS-172 with a range of over 400 kilometers.
This missile has also undergone several more iterations.
View attachment 52399
View attachment 52398
Its maturity is way higher than that of the AIM-260, not to mention the R‑33 and R‑37

We're not talking about 4gen jets & some huge LR-AAM.

And what can a paper-thin weapons bay like that even do?

It looks like AIM-260 can be carried internally. It has been test fired from F-18 SH, next stage would be from F-22.
Time will tell soon if any more new weapons.

Maybe you should first sort out the difference between L‑band antennas and L‑band radar.

Radar (Radio detection & ranging) is an application or concept, antenna is physical H/w, can be used as a generic term. Beyond this, i'm not electronics & telecom engineer.

Anyway, just like you believe the Su-57's belly isn't flat and that ruins its RCS,
I too have solid evidence and good reason to believe the F-22's skin craftsmanship is far, far worse than the F-16's — and that right there screws up its RCS performance.

Skin workmanship so horrifying you'd rarely even find it among the rejects in a Chinese aircraft factory.
View attachment 52401
But since it touches the reputation of American daddy, nobody dares to bring it up — that's all.

Just imagine if an aircraft from any other country turned out looking like that — the sheer scale of condemnation and verbal flaying it would face is anyone's guess... When it comes to craftsmanship, American companies could really stand to take a lesson from Turkey.
View attachment 52402

Many people have raised this point & have been clarified with closeup pics of all 5gen jets that -
- rivets are there in all jets bcoz they cannot be simply welded bcoz maintenance needs to open many section panels.
- hence in this old F-22 pic, the technician has pulled out the rivets to open for maintenance.
- some makers put RAM putty on rivets to smoothen the surface.
- When such pics of Su-57 is given then its supporters say that it is just in testing phase, the finished Su-57 will be smooth with baby skin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/yoacy2/panel_gaps_and_rivets_on_5th_gen_fighters_f22_f35

https://www.reddit.com/r/FighterJets/comments/1mwc2nx/close_ups_of_various_stealth_aircraft_including

Don't know if IT engineers are really all that hot stuff these days, but the level of confidence is certainly extraordinary.

2nd or 3rd time i'm asking what do you do for living?
Not just Engineering, every job needs some minimum confidence.
Do you step in hospital or clinic & talk to doctors like this?

Or is it that people in your line of work reckon that, in today’s business and living environment, getting hold of a few usable chips is like climbing to heaven — or do you lot think Russian programmers are worse coders than you and just can't manage the localized adaptation of Western chips?

- Human DNA & potential same everywhere but need money, development, resources, TIMELY management.
- As i said earlier, USA pioneered certain H/w & S/w tech & due to continious revenue & R&D is still dominating global market.
- Only 3-4 nations like USA, Taiwan, S.Korea have operational Extreme Ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machines—the absolute latest technology required to print sub-3-nanometer microchips. Netherlands, Japan, USA design the core tech.
- Because these $250M+ systems are highly regulated and produced almost entirely by the Dutch firm ASML, their global distribution is extremely restricted.
- China has previous gen lithography machines but trying to catch up domestically.
- India has jumped in recently & take time tolevel up.
- Russia has plans over next decade to domestically catch up. The first commercially available, domestically developed Russian photolithography machine is the Progress STP-350. Developed by the Zelenograd Nanotechnology Center (ZNTC) in a joint effort with Belarus, this machine operates at the 350 nm node. Major domestic Russian foundries—like Mikron and Angstrem—typically operate at resolutions ranging from 250 nm to 90 nm. To keep these older lines running, producers have relied on illicitly imported or smuggled older machines, such as ASML's PAS 5500 series.

The Su-33UB carries a computing capability of 10 BIPS — equivalent to the F-22's central computer.

Neither a 4gen needs that capability due to less sensors & digital stuff, nor a 4gen product from1980s/90s out of USSR collapse could ever match a 5gen product of USA with black budgeting.
When Su-33 CPU IPS is searched then it lists at 1.5 MIPS.
If you hate Google then how do you expect us to accept Chinese source?
When this info is searched on google then it lists your post here as source.

And let's not even get started on the Su-57 — oh, that's just adorable. The Su-57 carries two computer modules in mutual backup, delivering over 3000 MIPS.
Of course, this was the initial flight test technology in 2012. It's unclear whether it has changed since then, considering that 13 years have passed and the T-50 has become the SU-57.

3,000 MIPS = 3 BIPS Vs 10.5 BIPS.
As i said, after Su-57 1st flight, F-22 was upgraded in 2010s, then again now in 2020s.
And again like i said above that chip machines are largely controlled by West/USA, they'll easily overtake Russia in computer upgrades.
Russia will definitely level up some day but It'll take at least a decade.

I can't help but wonder — are you gambling on me, betting that I'm just another "ordinary enthusiast" like you? Betting that I can't do anything more than Google（the same to you）?

I always assume that others could be DoD, Ex-DoD, veteran journalists, friends/family with DoD.
After asking 3 times you've not told yet what do you do for living. But you dont reply like a techie or a 40s guy.

I actually went and Googled those images myself — sure enough,
they're nowhere to be found. So I just blurred out the model designations. Heh.

You need to check with your local telecom operator & Chinese authorities if they're blocking any sites, servers.

I like this new analogy with cartoon film than car, videogame, cellphone.
If you honestly dont have idea then why making emotional, personal comments? You can also say "ok, lets see". Speculating is not crime. Do you abuse your friends, relatives, neighbors in time pass discussions?
If F-22 doesn't get AGM MLUs, so be it.
I did say that if we take the RCS out of focus then Su-57 has many advantages over F-22.

> If we remove RCS from focus, then Su-57 is certainly better overall in most aspects - agility, weapons, multiple radars, countermeasure, HMDS, etc.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

You're still giving emotional, impulsive, personal replies.
Many people don't look at +/- points of a product but end up emotionally supporting or opposing it. I don't do that. For example i never said that J-20/35/36/50 are shit, tin cans, etc.
.


- Japanese requirement not needed here.
- A jet is dead/over when retired.
- 11 Bn$ MLU means alive for next say 20 years.
- 5gen will have to supplement 6gen.
- F-22 in USA need to be stationed only at few strategic places, Alaska being highest threat, some at overseas & allied bases.
- For every AF & navy, initial attack against other nation located far could be done but tough to sustain war especially from sea.
- Same tactics can be used by both sides like Cruise Missiles, Ballistic Missiles, drones, etc,



- 3rd time let me ask you - what should we use instead of Google? Chinese browser & search engine?
- Google AI searches pages of all types of sites related to topic of question & presents summary. So when DoD or someone says something on some website about the upgrade, the summary'll be presented accordingly.


AIM, not AIG



We're not talking about 4gen jets & some huge LR-AAM.


It looks like AIM-260 can be carried internally. It has been test fired from F-18 SH, next stage would be from F-22.
Time will tell soon if any more new weapons.


Radar (Radio detection & ranging) is an application or concept, antenna is physical H/w, can be used as a generic term. Beyond this, i'm not electronics & telecom engineer.



Many people have raised this point & have been clarified with closeup pics of all 5gen jets that -
- rivets are there in all jets bcoz they cannot be simply welded bcoz maintenance needs to open many section panels.
- hence in this old F-22 pic, the technician has pulled out the rivets to open for maintenance.
- some makers put RAM putty on rivets to smoothen the surface.
- When such pics of Su-57 is given then its supporters say that it is just in testing phase, the finished Su-57 will be smooth with baby skin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/yoacy2/panel_gaps_and_rivets_on_5th_gen_fighters_f22_f35

https://www.reddit.com/r/FighterJets/comments/1mwc2nx/close_ups_of_various_stealth_aircraft_including

2nd or 3rd time i'm asking what do you do for living?
Not just Engineering, every job needs some minimum confidence.
Do you step in hospital or clinic & talk to doctors like this?



- Human DNA & potential same everywhere but need money, development, resources, TIMELY management.
- As i said earlier, USA pioneered certain H/w & S/w tech & due to continious revenue & R&D is still dominating global market.
- Only 3-4 nations like USA, Taiwan, S.Korea have operational Extreme Ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machines—the absolute latest technology required to print sub-3-nanometer microchips. Netherlands, Japan, USA design the core tech.
- Because these $250M+ systems are highly regulated and produced almost entirely by the Dutch firm ASML, their global distribution is extremely restricted.
- China has previous gen lithography machines but trying to catch up domestically.
- India has jumped in recently & take time tolevel up.
- Russia has plans over next decade to domestically catch up. The first commercially available, domestically developed Russian photolithography machine is the Progress STP-350. Developed by the Zelenograd Nanotechnology Center (ZNTC) in a joint effort with Belarus, this machine operates at the 350 nm node. Major domestic Russian foundries—like Mikron and Angstrem—typically operate at resolutions ranging from 250 nm to 90 nm. To keep these older lines running, producers have relied on illicitly imported or smuggled older machines, such as ASML's PAS 5500 series.


Neither a 4gen needs that capability due to less sensors & digital stuff, nor a 4gen product from1980s/90s out of USSR collapse could ever match a 5gen product of USA with black budgeting.
When Su-33 CPU IPS is searched then it lists at 1.5 MIPS.
If you hate Google then how do you expect us to accept Chinese source?
When this info is searched on google then it lists your post here as source.

View attachment 52419



3,000 MIPS = 3 BIPS Vs 10.5 BIPS.
As i said, after Su-57 1st flight, F-22 was upgraded in 2010s, then again now in 2020s.
And again like i said above that chip machines are largely controlled by West/USA, they'll easily overtake Russia in computer upgrades.
Russia will definitely level up some day but It'll take at least a decade.


I always assume that others could be DoD, Ex-DoD, veteran journalists, friends/family with DoD.
After asking 3 times you've not told yet what do you do for living. But you dont reply like a techie or a 40s guy.


You need to check with your local telecom operator & Chinese authorities if they're blocking any sites, servers.



I like this new analogy with cartoon film than car, videogame, cellphone.
If you honestly dont have idea then why making emotional, personal comments? You can also say "ok, lets see". Speculating is not crime. Do you abuse your friends, relatives, neighbors in time pass discussions?
If F-22 doesn't get AGM MLUs, so be it.
I did say that if we take the RCS out of focus then Su-57 has many advantages over F-22.

In China, what people generally call an "IT engineer" is more accurately dubbed a "network migrant worker" (code monkey). Being purged from the company the moment you hit 35 is just the standard operating procedure around here.
When it comes to military matters, you guys are nothing but rank amateurs. Google is the only crutch you have to rely on, which is why your rhetoric sounds utterly laughable in front of someone at my level.

If you don't believe me, you are more than welcome to come to China and try it out for yourself. For instance, if you simply search the terms 'IT' and '35 years old,' the results that pop up look like this:
(PS: Word on the street is that Xiaomi and Alibaba are about to lay off another 30% or more of their workforce, because we have AI now.)



The F-22 has been in service for over 20 years, yet it still hasn't been equipped with your so-called long-range BVRAAMs (Beyond-Visual-Range Air-to-Air Missiles), air-to-ground missiles, anti-ship missiles, anti-radiation missiles, wingman drones, cheek-mounted AESA arrays, or L-band radars, right? You keep bragging about a "mid-life upgrade," but how can it be a mid-life upgrade when over half of its structural lifespan is already gone (assuming a 40-year airframe life)?
You'd be better off just sticking to your own industry and grinding out some basic C++. Why even bother debating military aviation?
Yet, you just had to open your mouth and brag about cell phones, TVs, cars, and home appliances—and that ridiculous comedy routine completely exposed your true level and shallow depth.
As for the Su-33UB, Su-35S, and Su-57 I mentioned last time—yes, I was right. They use server-grade or U.S.-made chips.

As for the specific models, I’m not going to tell you. After all, these handbooks and photos are the hard-earned fruits of my own labor, paid for with my own admission tickets at the airshow.
A fighter jet doesn't need to simultaneously process hundreds of millions of vectors or handle real-time 3D rendering anyway。

That exact chip inside the F-22 was actually installed in Sega gaming consoles back in the day; even at the time, it was far from cutting-edge. On top of that, they deliberately chose the lowest-clocked, bottom-tier variant available for that model.
It is utterly futile for tech 'experts' like you to desperately hype up the supposed sophistication and exclusivity of these components

Actually, don't just take my word for it. I literally just checked a Chinese second-hand electronics trading app, and the exact chip model used in the Su-57 is currently priced at 160 RMB (about $22 USD) for a lot of 30 pieces.
These dirt-cheap, off-the-shelf chips provide more than enough processing power and massive performance overhead for any fighter platform. In terms of market value, they don't even cost as much as a single 12.7mm gun shell.
IT engineers live in such a hopelessly narrow bubble.

These components are readily available everywhere; they are absolutely nothing worth hyping up or using to look down on a platform. I firmly believe General Kim in North Korea is using the exact same—or even better—American chips.


If you disagree, feel free to write a letter to the U.S. government demanding they cut off the chip supply to North Korea and Russia.

 

[randomradio]

One must judge based on common sense, not on one’s own stance. One should first study the history and evolution of offensive and defensive weapon development, rather than relying on video games and imagination.
Air defense missiles placed on land—such as the S-300, Standard, Patriot, and HQ-9—cannot defend against Iran’s Shahab, Shahed 136, or BrahMos. But when you put them on a Project 22350 frigate—especially without the support of forward radar networks—they can supposedly defend against Oniks and Zircon?

Ships move, at 30 knots if they have to, to avoid a hit. Land bases cannot move. The difficulty of targeting and killing a moving base is extremely high.

In any case, we don't know the success rate of Israeli ADS.

Can the United States, China, or India achieve what the Moskva could not?

Very easily. As I said, India identified the weaknesses of Russian ships back in the 90s and corrected them. They said it themselves.

You can see that the Pakistanis have not bothered to create the capabilities you said will work against modern ships because they know the IN has already addressed it.

Merely attacking a ship with missiles is not enough, you need to combine that effect with EW. So you need fighter jets and drones capable of EW escorting the missiles. During exercises with the US, 4 IAF Jaguars flew 70 km close to a carrier just to score a kill.

22350 is the first ship for Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union that came with advanced defenses.

The perfect kill of air power over sea power was already proven 100 years ago. The current reality is simply the verification of that last test; there is no need to go back and prove it again in 2026. This is called dialectical thinking.

I don't know what you mean here. Probably some kinda translation issue.

As for the energy structure issue, I’ve been in this line of work since retiring from the military ten years ago. I won’t say much else, but replacing asphalt with concrete? That’s a garbage technique only used on village roads—simply the result of lacking asphalt.

80% of Mumbai has now converted to concrete.

All our new expressways now come with concrete.

CMA

www.cmaindia.org

An access road to my house was concrete, built in the 1980s when DRDO was set up and is still fresh. Most of our military roads are concrete and they use high quality standards to build them, so they last many decades. Even the mountain border areas use concrete for roads.

India Building Large-Scale Concrete Pavement Highways & Expressways in “World-Record Speed”

Click to go to “India Book of Records” India has been building highways and expressways in record pace—faster than ever before and will be open for travelers soon! Construction Week onl…

www.concretepavements.org

In February 2021, India set the first-of-its-kind world record a constructed single lane stretch of 25.54 km (15.87 miles) in 18 hours. Around the same time, NHAI and Patel Infrastructure created another world record for laying the highest quantity of concrete on a four-lane highway in 24 hours. The feat made it to the India Book of Records and Golden Book of World Records. This was followed by another record In March/April when contractors constructed a 2.5 km (1.5-mi) 4-lane concrete road within 24 hours. Another mention of the Guinness Book of World Records—records that don’t come easily.

US interstate highways and expressways also use concrete.

I have no idea what sort of concrete quality China has used for you to have a negative impression.

Concrete is too hard yet brittle; under heavy loads, it gets crushed in less than three months. It’s a maintenance disaster, and its grip is also disastrous. The three layers of cement-stabilized base (whatever you call them) beneath the highway asphalt layer are already made with added cement. They serve as the skeleton of the road, used for shaping and bearing settlement deformation. And the asphalt skin is indispensable.

Autobahn comes with a concrete base and asphalt surface.

But now the Germans are using concrete surface.

German Autobahn receives new concrete surface

Precision paving performance has been achieved on a major road project in Germany, using Wirtgen slipform pavers. The SP1500 and SP1500L models have been used to help upgrade a stretch of the BAB A9 Autobahn in Thuringia. The BAB A9 Autobahn is one of Germany’s most important roads, connecting...

www.globalhighways.com

It's the opposite of your claims.

As for ethanol and biofuels, would farmers give up high-yield, high-value crops to grow the corn stalks needed for that stuff? This reveals a basic lack of understanding of agriculture and food structure.

India is a massive maize and sugarcane producer and exporter. The surplus that was exported is now used for ethanol production. Overall India is a major food exporter.

Plus maize has a massive market in India due to its use as feed for poultry and cattle.

 

[randomradio]

The F-22 MLU is a joke.

All it comes with is some networking upgrades with two-way Link 16 and some upgrades to IFDL. Everything else is external, IRST pod, fuel tanks, new weapons etc. Maybe some new cockpit tech like HMDS.

The most important, replacing core avionics, has not been done. The only rumor going around is the radar's front end will get F-35's TRMs. If there's no GaN upgrade coming in, it would indicate a full replacement is on the anvil.

 

[randomradio]

Congress Blocks F-22 Raptor Retirement Through 2032 — HASC NDAA

HASC extends F-22 retirement protection through FY2032, shielding all 184 Raptors until the F-47 successor reaches operational capability.

migflug.com

What's interesting to note is the F-22 will be retired as and when Su-57s are delivered in parallel to F-47's deliveries.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Ships move, at 30 knots if they have to, to avoid a hit. Land bases cannot move. The difficulty of targeting and killing a moving base is extremely high.

In any case, we don't know the success rate of Israeli ADS.



Very easily. As I said, India identified the weaknesses of Russian ships back in the 90s and corrected them. They said it themselves.

You can see that the Pakistanis have not bothered to create the capabilities you said will work against modern ships because they know the IN has already addressed it.

Merely attacking a ship with missiles is not enough, you need to combine that effect with EW. So you need fighter jets and drones capable of EW escorting the missiles. During exercises with the US, 4 IAF Jaguars flew 70 km close to a carrier just to score a kill.

22350 is the first ship for Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union that came with advanced defenses.



I don't know what you mean here. Probably some kinda translation issue.



80% of Mumbai has now converted to concrete.

All our new expressways now come with concrete.

CMA

www.cmaindia.org

An access road to my house was concrete, built in the 1980s when DRDO was set up and is still fresh. Most of our military roads are concrete and they use high quality standards to build them, so they last many decades. Even the mountain border areas use concrete for roads.

India Building Large-Scale Concrete Pavement Highways & Expressways in “World-Record Speed”

Click to go to “India Book of Records” India has been building highways and expressways in record pace—faster than ever before and will be open for travelers soon! Construction Week onl…

www.concretepavements.org

In February 2021, India set the first-of-its-kind world record a constructed single lane stretch of 25.54 km (15.87 miles) in 18 hours. Around the same time, NHAI and Patel Infrastructure created another world record for laying the highest quantity of concrete on a four-lane highway in 24 hours. The feat made it to the India Book of Records and Golden Book of World Records. This was followed by another record In March/April when contractors constructed a 2.5 km (1.5-mi) 4-lane concrete road within 24 hours. Another mention of the Guinness Book of World Records—records that don’t come easily.

US interstate highways and expressways also use concrete.

I have no idea what sort of concrete quality China has used for you to have a negative impression.



Autobahn comes with a concrete base and asphalt surface.

But now the Germans are using concrete surface.

German Autobahn receives new concrete surface

Precision paving performance has been achieved on a major road project in Germany, using Wirtgen slipform pavers. The SP1500 and SP1500L models have been used to help upgrade a stretch of the BAB A9 Autobahn in Thuringia. The BAB A9 Autobahn is one of Germany’s most important roads, connecting...

www.globalhighways.com

It's the opposite of your claims.



India is a massive maize and sugarcane producer and exporter. The surplus that was exported is now used for ethanol production. Overall India is a major food exporter.

Plus maize has a massive market in India due to its use as feed for poultry and cattle.

Oh, excuse me. Look, I’m a big fan of Russia, but logic dictates that if the S-350 struggles to intercept missiles on solid ground, it sure as hell won't work when stuffed into a 5,400-ton aluminum alloy hull on a Project 22350 frigate.
That’s just basic common sense.
When we talk about a 30-knot sprint speed, do you seriously not consider the severe hull oscillation under those conditions, and the catastrophic impact it has on radar accuracy and missile guidance tracking?


The heavy rigs running around here routinely carry upwards of 120 tons. My province boasts 10,000 kilometers of 6-lane, fully enclosed toll highways—built with a subgrade wider than 42 meters, designed for average speeds of 120 km/h, a minimum turning radius above 125 meters, and a strict flatness tolerance under 1.8mm. The price tag? 500 million RMB—about $80 million USD—for every single kilometer.
The only redeeming quality of a concrete road is its low cost. That is entry-level knowledge that shouldn't even require a discussion. Name one top-tier racing circuit on this planet that uses concrete pavement instead of asphalt.

Asphalt roads are just completely unmatched when you look at the actual metrics: lower cabin noise, superior ride comfort, incredible tire grip, overall safety, shorter braking distances, and flawless smoothness

 

[randomradio]

Oh, excuse me. Look, I’m a big fan of Russia, but logic dictates that if the S-350 struggles to intercept missiles on solid ground, it sure as hell won't work when stuffed into a 5,400-ton aluminum alloy hull on a Project 22350 frigate.
That’s just basic common sense.

Land-based ADS are restricted by horizon compared to open waters, where the entire horizon is visible.

And land-based radars also have to deal with soft borders where missiles can be fired from very short ranges.

When we talk about a 30-knot sprint speed, do you seriously not consider the severe hull oscillation under those conditions, and the catastrophic impact it has on radar accuracy and missile guidance tracking?

You are thinking in terms of fighter aircraft or battle tank style dodging. But for ships, it's about simply moving away from the missile's course beforehand.

A missile like SCALP cannot be reprogrammed during flight, it's trained to hit the target at the GPS coordinates fed into it, so it's only useful against land targets that cannot move. So no matter what you do, if you cannot disrupt its navigation, which is very hard, your only choice is to intercept it. The shorter the range, the lesser is the deviation, so interception becomes the only choice. Lower the time for interception, lower the kill probability.

Against ships, the ship typically knows it's been targeted due to its accompanying support. Once the missile's trajectory is know, the ship uses high speed to move away from the projected impact point. So you will have to reprogram the missile's trajectory, that adds a point of failure in the kill chain. Attempting to communicate with the missile adds a second point of failure. The onboard seeker adds a third point of failure. So you already have multiple points of failure from launch to transit to terminal, and then comes the ship's defenses.

Against land targets, your only choice is interception or prayer. Against ships, at least you have many options before interception is the only possibility.

Lastly, the shortest interception range for ships is just few dozen meters, but land defenses have to cover a much wider area. You could have good defenses but it could cover only a part of the land base. For example, your defenses cover heavily manned and sensitive areas of an air base, but the coverage could be sparse on lesser manned areas. So you are giving up part of the air base for the last line of defense. And during warfare stretching over years, you may end up with lesser air defenses than you need. But the ship's defenses are built into itself.

The heavy rigs running around here routinely carry upwards of 120 tons. My province boasts 10,000 kilometers of 6-lane, fully enclosed toll highways—built with a subgrade wider than 42 meters, designed for average speeds of 120 km/h, a minimum turning radius above 125 meters, and a strict flatness tolerance under 1.8mm. The price tag? 500 million RMB—about $80 million USD—for every single kilometer.
The only redeeming quality of a concrete road is its low cost. That is entry-level knowledge that shouldn't even require a discussion. Name one top-tier racing circuit on this planet that uses concrete pavement instead of asphalt.

Asphalt roads are just completely unmatched when you look at the actual metrics: lower cabin noise, superior ride comfort, incredible tire grip, overall safety, shorter braking distances, and flawless smoothness
View attachment 52429

China's expressways are said to be superior to India's in terms of ride comfort.

Rates slightly higher on perception than India.

Road Quality by Country 2026

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

India's relatively new at expressways, at just 8000 km, so there's room for improvement.

But American roads use concrete and are rated higher than China.

India has to cater to monsoon season and heat resistance during summer, where asphalt is inferior.

As for price, it's like MKI and Rafale. Concrete (Rafale) is more expensive but has a longer lifespan and cheaper to maintain. And asphalt is cheap only when oil prices are cheap.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

Most Indians remain just observant in hostile foriegn forums.
Let's see how much time & energy of your precious life you'll waste here abusing members - days, weeks, months, years.

In China, what people generally call an "IT engineer" is more accurately dubbed a "network migrant worker" (code monkey). Being purged from the company the moment you hit 35 is just the standard operating procedure around here.

If you don't believe me, you are more than welcome to come to China and try it out for yourself. For instance, if you simply search the terms 'IT' and '35 years old,' the results that pop up look like this:
(PS: Word on the street is that Xiaomi and Alibaba are about to lay off another 30% or more of their workforce, because we have AI now.)

- Ok, sorry for Chinese conditions? Yes, AI hitting jobs globally but some humans will be needed in the loop.
- I hope it doesnt impact your profesion which you won't/can't tell after asking 4 times also.
- IT is a generic term, umbrella of variety & heirarchy of profiles. If you're expecting university toppers, PhD, need to join special paid membership websites.
- Thanks for the inviation but we don't have so bad days yet that we have to go to China.

When it comes to military matters, you guys are nothing but rank amateurs. Google is the only crutch you have to rely on, which is why your rhetoric sounds utterly laughable in front of someone at my level.

But you don't tell your academic & professional level after asking 4 times.
And being non-DoD professional, just enthusiasts at least i'm definitely amateur.
What're you doing here wasting time & energy? Hang out with your high level guys.

The F-22 has been in service for over 20 years, yet it still hasn't been equipped with your so-called long-range BVRAAMs (Beyond-Visual-Range Air-to-Air Missiles), air-to-ground missiles, anti-ship missiles, anti-radiation missiles, wingman drones, cheek-mounted AESA arrays, or L-band radars, right? You keep bragging about a "mid-life upgrade," but how can it be a mid-life upgrade when over half of its structural lifespan is already gone (assuming a 40-year airframe life)?

- How many times you'll repeat same thing?
- I told you i'm not in favor of importing US jets. I jusy see +/- points of all products. So cursing F-22 doesn't affect me bcoz i don't curse any jet.
- What can we do if China blocks many online material?
- I'm sorry to say but you're having eye-q & IQ problem both bcoz -

= red-marked pics have been shared.​

= HALF = MID. When HALF life over then MID-life upgrade.​

- You should travel to nearest -

= 2 types of doctors dealing with IQ & eye-q.​

= air show where F-22 will be static displayed, so that you can see, probably touch if lucky, clear your queries.​

You'd be better off just sticking to your own industry and grinding out some basic C++. Why even bother debating military aviation?

- We are sticking to our own industry, doing office job then coming to defence forums for time pass. Don't tell me that coming to forums is your job.
- Ada used in military is more primitive than C++, Python, etc.

Yet, you just had to open your mouth and brag about cell phones, TVs, cars, and home appliances—and that ridiculous comedy routine completely exposed your true level and shallow depth.

- You're the one who compared 5gen jet with car, cell phone, videogame, cartoon films.
- I'm supposed to be shallow in all domains not of my academics & profession, but if you know everything in this world then Hail to you.

As for the Su-33UB, Su-35S, and Su-57 I mentioned last time—yes, I was right. They use server-grade or U.S.-made chips.

As for the specific models, I’m not going to tell you. After all, these handbooks and photos are the hard-earned fruits of my own labor, paid for with my own admission tickets at the airshow.
A fighter jet doesn't need to simultaneously process hundreds of millions of vectors or handle real-time 3D rendering anyway。

That exact chip inside the F-22 was actually installed in Sega gaming consoles back in the day; even at the time, it was far from cutting-edge. On top of that, they deliberately chose the lowest-clocked, bottom-tier variant available for that model.
It is utterly futile for tech 'experts' like you to desperately hype up the supposed sophistication and exclusivity of these components

Actually, don't just take my word for it. I literally just checked a Chinese second-hand electronics trading app, and the exact chip model used in the Su-57 is currently priced at 160 RMB (about $22 USD) for a lot of 30 pieces.
These dirt-cheap, off-the-shelf chips provide more than enough processing power and massive performance overhead for any fighter platform. In terms of market value, they don't even cost as much as a single 12.7mm gun shell.
IT engineers live in such a hopelessly narrow bubble.

These components are readily available everywhere; they are absolutely nothing worth hyping up or using to look down on a platform. I firmly believe General Kim in North Korea is using the exact same—or even better—American chips.

If you disagree, feel free to write a letter to the U.S. government demanding they cut off the chip supply to North Korea and Russia.

Reminds me of "the grapes are sour for the fox" story & 1998 movie "Little soldiers" where military chips got installed into toys.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Most Indians remain just observant in hostile foriegn forums.
Let's see how much time & energy of your precious life you'll waste here abusing members - days, weeks, months, years.

Oh wow, so speaking a few honest words counts as insulting you now? Haha, sorry if I stepped on your tail.

- Ok, sorry for Chinese conditions? Yes, AI hitting jobs globally but some humans will be needed in the loop.
- I hope it doesnt impact your profesion which you won't/can't tell after asking 4 times also.
- IT is a generic term, umbrella of variety & heirarchy of profiles. If you're expecting university toppers, PhD, need to join special paid membership websites.
- Thanks for the inviation but we don't have so bad days yet that we have to go to China.

In IT, no matter the specialty, we just call everyone "network migrant workers" or "code monkeys" around here. As long as you're not making lithography machines or chips, you're all the same to us.

But you don't tell your academic & professional level after asking 4 times.
And being non-DoD professional, just enthusiasts at least i'm definitely amateur.
What're you doing here wasting time & energy? Hang out with your high level guys.

After exchanging a few words with you, I felt you're not quite on my level, so I'd rather not swap educational credentials—especially since you don't have a search warrant anyway. As for national defense—of course I'm a professional, but after 2017, Chinese-language military forums were banned, so I'm just out here enjoying the foreign scenery.

- How many times you'll repeat same thing?
- I told you i'm not in favor of importing US jets. I jusy see +/- points of all products. So cursing F-22 doesn't affect me bcoz i don't curse any jet.
- What can we do if China blocks many online material?
- I'm sorry to say but you're having eye-q & IQ problem both bcoz -

= red-marked pics have been shared.​

= HALF = MID. When HALF life over then MID-life upgrade.​

- You should travel to nearest -

= 2 types of doctors dealing with IQ & eye-q.​

= air show where F-22 will be static displayed, so that you can see, probably touch if lucky, clear your queries.​

Since you don't approve of importing U.S. fighter jets, I'll feel even freer to trash-talk American warplanes.

B-2 'upgrade' — to this day, we still haven't seen any cruise missiles with a range exceeding 1,000 kilometers.
F-15, after all this time, still hasn't been fitted with the F110-132 or F100-232.
The F-35 also hasn't seen the laser weapons that were promised.
So I really don't know where the things you mentioned about the F-22 mid-life upgrade（Specifically, the addition of long-range air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, ground-attack missiles, side-mounted phased arrays, and L-band radar.） are. The Emperor's upgrade — only smart people just can see it.

- We are sticking to our own industry, doing office job then coming to defence forums for time pass. Don't tell me that coming to forums is your job.
- Ada used in military is more primitive than C++, Python, etc.

Military-grade chips are also much more primitive—they don't need Unreal Engine 4 rendering, after all.

- You're the one who compared 5gen jet with car, cell phone, videogame, cartoon films.
- I'm supposed to be shallow in all domains not of my academics & profession, but if you know everything in this world then Hail to you.

I seem to recall you were the one talking about phones, TVs, cars, and home appliances—am I remembering wrong? Feel free to scroll back and check.
My specialties are religion, history, military affairs, model making, sword making, and chemical analysis. — Well, one should always keep learning.

e grapes are sour for the fox" story & 1998 movie "Little soldiers" where military chips got installed into toys.

Hiding some North American specialty “Leaves” or adult videos might be worth it, but hiding chips? What for—NVIDIA H100s?

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

Oh wow, so speaking a few honest words counts as insulting you now? Haha, sorry if I stepped on your tail.

On technology topic forum, what honesty is there in demeaning technical profession instead of talking on the technology?

In IT, no matter the specialty, we just call everyone "network migrant workers" or "code monkeys" around here. As long as you're not making lithography machines or chips, you're all the same to us.

That's China's problem, not India's.
Coding is taught in many schools since 1990s, but everybody doesn't go for engineering degree in college.
There're heirarchy of colleges in every nation offering different level of degrees for students scoring at different level who pass out & do job in dfferent profiles.

After exchanging a few words with you, I felt you're not quite on my level, so I'd rather not swap educational credentials—especially since you don't have a search warrant anyway. As for national defense—of course I'm a professional, but after 2017, Chinese-language military forums were banned, so I'm just out here enjoying the foreign scenery.

Yeah the difference in comprehension level is certainly seen with denial of basic 5gen components shown in diagrams & pics.
You need search warrant for basic intro

Since you don't approve of importing U.S. fighter jets, I'll feel even freer to trash-talk American warplanes.

But good engineers don't trash talk, they simply put +/-points of products as they are, that's the difference b/w our levels.
Trash talk doesn't add value or change anything.

B-2 'upgrade' — to this day, we still haven't seen any cruise missiles with a range exceeding 1,000 kilometers.
F-15, after all this time, still hasn't been fitted with the F110-132 or F100-232.
The F-35 also hasn't seen the laser weapons that were promised.
So I really don't know where the things you mentioned about the F-22 mid-life upgrade（Specifically, the addition of long-range air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, ground-attack missiles, side-mounted phased arrays, and L-band radar.） are. The Emperor's upgrade — only smart people just can see it.

- You're going in circles wasting time repeating same lines for which clarification has been given.
- We're comparing combat features of F-22 Vs Su-57, You can point other jets in US generic thread & some American member'll definitely answer your "trash talk".
- Has China blocked news of AIM-260 JATM?
- Side radar & AGMs for F-22 are speculation looking at F-35. This is casual chat, treat it like that.
- Nothing UFO tech about L-band radar. IDK why you obsessed with L-band.

Military-grade chips are also much more primitive—they don't need Unreal Engine 4 rendering, after all.

- But Lithography machines are being regulated by West as they pioneered the tech.
- Does any jet fighter use unreal engine?

I seem to recall you were the one talking about phones, TVs, cars, and home appliances—am I remembering wrong? Feel free to scroll back and check.

Even a high school tennager can comprehend the GENERIC MESSAGE of how global industry works -

Even if we talk about TV, cellphone, car, laptop, home appliances, etc, then some companies/countries are leading the world, they do R&D, make ISO standards, dominate market, similarly in military domain.

Hiding some North American specialty “Leaves” or adult videos might be worth it, but hiding chips? What for—NVIDIA H100s?

You mean regulating the chips & machines. People who do R&D will regulate their products. Just like China has biggest reserve of strategic crude oil stockpile, Forex reserves, some critical minerals some of which used in Defence, and will use as leverage.