People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions

[Innominate]

If our Rafales perform even decent against them, then J-20 is going to be a toast. Time will tell.....

If it's scripted to help Rafale pilots, and not just to show off how outclassed 4th gens are against F-35's, then yes hopefully they have success because that is what Red Flag and other air combat exercise is all about. We already know what the outcome would be if aggressor F-35's were there to show off it already happened when F-35's were not IOC yet in 2016 taking on the most advance F-15E's with APG-82 and Sniper-ATP and best pilots... they got their butts handed to them by the F-35's

F-15E Strike Eagles unable to shoot down the F-35s in 8 dogfights during simulated deployment

"0 losses in 8 dogfights against F-15E Red Air" The U.S. Air Force F-35A fleet continues to work to declare the Lightning II IOC (initial operational

theaviationist.com

F-35 aggressors are going to act like J-20's and fight like J-20's I don't see this as a pissing contest. J-20 is nowhere near the VLO and nowhere near as high-tech than F-35 but J-20 is still VLO fighter that will have an advantage and they have a lot of them over 36 Rafales.

 

[Rajput Lion]

If it's scripted to help Rafale pilots, and not just to show off how outclassed 4th gens are against F-35's, then yes hopefully they have success because that is what Red Flag and other air combat exercise is all about. We already know what the outcome would be if aggressor F-35's were there to show off it already happened when F-35's were not IOC yet in 2016 taking on the most advance F-15E's with APG-82 and Sniper-ATP and best pilots... they got their butts handed to them by the F-35's

F-15E Strike Eagles unable to shoot down the F-35s in 8 dogfights during simulated deployment

"0 losses in 8 dogfights against F-15E Red Air" The U.S. Air Force F-35A fleet continues to work to declare the Lightning II IOC (initial operational

theaviationist.com

F-35 aggressors are going to act like J-20's and fight like J-20's I don't see this as a pissing contest. J-20 is nowhere near the VLO and nowhere near as high-tech than F-35 but J-20 is still VLO fighter that will have an advantage and they have a lot of them over 36 Rafales.

You may not accept it but Rafale F3R-I is way more advance than F-15E in terms of both ESM/ECM. So don't think result would be as lopsided in F-35's favour.

Anyways, I agree completely with your last para

 

[LX1111]

The question was about the Pakistani J-10C. Everyone knows that the WS-10 is very new and less proven. Therefore, I specifically mentioned it as a downside.

First of all, your statement that WS10 is a very new engine is wrong. In 2001, the SU-27 aircraft with WS10 was tested and flown. By 2010, WS10 had matured and was equipped in large quantities on J-11B aircraft. Up to now, most of the Flanker fighters produced in China use WS10 engines. There are about 1,200 WS10s in service in the Chinese Air Force. Now it is a mature and reliable engine.

 

[Ashwin]

First of all, your statement that WS10 is a very new engine is wrong. In 2001, the SU-27 aircraft with WS10 was tested and flown. By 2010, WS10 had matured and was equipped in large quantities on J-11B aircraft. Up to now, most of the Flanker fighters produced in China use WS10 engines. There are about 1,200 WS10s in service in the Chinese Air Force. Now it is a mature and reliable engine.

Yet again you are giving random made up looking numbers. Unless you can provide credible source keep it to yourself.

As you yourself admitted these engines are new even for J-10C, thus new. No one claims maturity just because it was in testbed in 2001.

 

[LX1111]

Yet again you are giving random made up looking numbers. Unless you can provide credible source keep it to yourself.

As you yourself admitted these engines are new even for J-10C, thus new. No one claims maturity just because it was in testbed in 2001.

To be honest, I admire the Indians' ability to act like ostriches. You can find out how many J-11b/bs and J-16s there are, multiply that by 2, add the J10Cs of batches 4, 5, and 6, and some J-10s, and that's the number of WS-10 engines.

Yet again you are giving random made up looking numbers. Unless you can provide credible source keep it to yourself.

As you yourself admitted these engines are new even for J-10C, thus new. No one claims maturity just because it was in testbed in 2001.

Go check the time of the first flight of the J-11B aircraft using the WS10 engine yourself, any website, Wikipedia will do, don't bury your head in the sand anymore

 

[Tatvamasi]

First of all, your statement that WS10 is a very new engine is wrong. In 2001, the SU-27 aircraft with WS10 was tested and flown. By 2010, WS10 had matured and was equipped in large quantities on J-11B aircraft. Up to now, most of the Flanker fighters produced in China use WS10 engines. There are about 1,200 WS10s in service in the Chinese Air Force. Now it is a mature and reliable engine.

Thousands of chinese engines oh yeah

 

[LX1111]

For those who question the number of WS-10 engines installed, I can only say that they have no understanding of a world air power. They think that India is a world air power. However, in fact, the scale of its tactical aircraft is similar to that of regional powers such as Japan, South Korea, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. It is far from being an air power, and naturally cannot understand the scale and quantity that the Chinese Air Force wants to achieve.

 

[LX1111]

It can only be said that after a long period of investment, China's engines have finally reached the harvest season. WS15 is installed on J-20, WS-20 is installed on Y-20, and WZ-10 is installed on Z-20.
China's aviation engines have gradually caught up with the level of the United States in the 1990s, and have reached a level similar to that of Russia and France. The future goal is to be the three international aviation engine giants GE, PW, and RR.

 

[Tatvamasi]

For those who question the number of WS-10 engines installed, I can only say that they have no understanding of a world air power. They think that India is a world air power. However, in fact, the scale of its tactical aircraft is similar to that of regional powers such as Japan, South Korea, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. It is far from being an air power, and naturally cannot understand the scale and quantity that the Chinese Air Force wants to achieve.

Coming from the person who said the economy has nothing to do with military strength. What kind of idiotic things do you read and follow? I bet you have only met ultra-nationalist Indians online. Never read anything serious.

India is a regional power with no desire for expansion. You are playing with a straw-man. China wants to be a global power, but its navy and air force are limited to its region, with near-zero influence outside. The entire economy hinges on sea lines of communications protected by a superpower. It can't even challenge the existential question from a regional island.

 

[_Anonymous_]

For those who question the number of WS-10 engines installed, I can only say that they have no understanding of a world air power. They think that India is a world air power. However, in fact, the scale of its tactical aircraft is similar to that of regional powers such as Japan, South Korea, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. It is far from being an air power, and naturally cannot understand the scale and quantity that the Chinese Air Force wants to achieve.

Your entire series of WS Turbo Fans ( TFs) are derived from the AL-31F which you successfully reverse engineered way back in the early 2000s. That one act so pissed off the Russians that till 2016 where the CCP signed a contract for 36 nos Su-35 , the Chinese were on the Russian black list.

Up until then you were busy reverse engineering the CFM-56 high bypass TF which is what powers the core of your WS-10.

ANALYSIS: The secret world of Chinese fighter engines

"A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma," is how Winston Churchill famously described Russia in 1939. The adage applies well, perhaps better, to Beijing's secretive efforts to develop military engines for its future fleet of advanced fighters. While there can be no dispute that engines...

www.flightglobal.com

As far as what the PLAAF wants to achieve it's before everyone's eyes. Reverse engineer the source TF & uprate / downrate the TFs as per your requirement.

What does India think of this ? We've been mfg the AL-31FP for our own Su-30 MKI since nearly 2 decades now such that we've acquired the kind of mastery on it that the Chinese acquired on the AL-31F nearly a decade & half ago.

If we really thought the AL-31F was the way to go we'd have begun our version of the WS series program too which would be developing a number of TFs of different ratings to power our Fighter Aircrafts , Transport Aircraft , Bombers etc .

It's just that we think Russian TFs aren't exactly world class which is the reason we haven't sought a partnership with the Russians for our AMCA Mk-2 project which involves designing & developing a clean sheet 120 KN TF with a western partner country namely UK , France or the US.

On the other hand the Chinese have no choice. It's multiple derivatives of AL-31F for you. If you choose to make a virtue out of a necessity that may be good enough to convince your own gullible citizenry or whoever is willing to buy your arguments.

We know the AL-31F inside out therefore we know exactly where does the PLAAF stand on the matter as does the US , the west & of course Russia.

Now sit down & come up with better excuses.

 

[LX1111]

Your entire series of WS Turbo Fans ( TFs) are derived from the AL-31F which you successfully reverse engineered way back in the early 2000s. That one act so pissed off the Russians that till 2016 where the CCP signed a contract for 36 nos Su-35 , the Chinese were on the Russian black list

If China is on Russia's blacklist, then what is the contract for 100 Su-30MKK/MK2 after 2000, what is the contract for hundreds of Mi-171s, and what is the contract for a large number of AL-31FNs? There is also a common sense mistake. China bought 24 Su-35s, not 36, which is a regiment of aircraft.

 

[LX1111]

As far as what the PLAAF wants to achieve it's before everyone's eyes. Reverse engineer the source TF & uprate / downrate the TFs as per your requirement.

What does India think of this ? We've been mfg the AL-31FP for our own Su-30 MKI since nearly 2 decades now such that we've acquired the kind of mastery on it that the Chinese acquired on the AL-31F nearly a decade & half ago.

If we really thought the AL-31F was the way to go we'd have begun our version of the WS series program too which would be developing a number of TFs of different ratings to power our Fighter Aircrafts , Transport Aircraft , Bombers etc .

It's just that we think Russian TFs aren't exactly world class which is the reason we haven't sought a partnership with the Russians for our AMCA Mk-2 project which involves designing & developing a clean sheet 120 KN TF with a western partner country namely UK , France or the US.

On the other hand the Chinese have no choice. It's multiple derivatives of AL-31F for you. If you choose to make a virtue out of a necessity that may be good enough to convince your own gullible citizenry or whoever is willing to buy your arguments.

You are absolutely right. India does not think highly of Russian technology. They admire European technology. I believe that India's Kafori engine has become a mature, stable and advanced engine, comparable to F414 and EJ200. As for why you can't see it, don't worry. Unpatriotic Indians can't see it.

 

[LX1111]

What does India think of this ? We've been mfg the AL-31FP for our own Su-30 MKI since nearly 2 decades now such that we've acquired the kind of mastery on it that the Chinese acquired on the AL-31F nearly a decade & half ago

I admire the tone of the Indians. Do the Russians believe what you say? Turkey has also assembled F110. Does that mean Turkey has all the technology for F110?

 

[LX1111]

Coming from the person who said the economy has nothing to do with military strength. What kind of idiotic things do you read and follow? I bet you have only met ultra-nationalist Indians online. Never read anything serious.

India is a regional power with no desire for expansion. You are playing with a straw-man. China wants to be a global power, but its navy and air force are limited to its region, with near-zero influence outside. The entire economy hinges on sea lines of communications protected by a superpower. It can't even challenge the existential question from a regional island.

Really? Didn’t Modi say that he wanted to be a powerful country? Isn’t India constantly expanding its influence in the Indian Ocean and the Middle East? Isn’t India want to the hegemon of South Asia? Doesn’t India want to take more of the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau from China? Isn’t this proof that India wants to be a world power?India has no desire to expand yet?

 

[LX1111]

Your entire series of WS Turbo Fans ( TFs) are derived from the AL-31F which you successfully reverse engineered way back in the early 2000s

Hi, so India doesn't know much about its biggest competitor. So many models in the WS series originated from AL31?

 

[Rajput Lion]

@_Anonymous_

WS-10 series is not derived of AL-31F series but based upon CFM-56 engines which are derived from American F101-GE-102 engine. They did take Salyut's help though in refining their engine tech and now have definitely made a breakthrough.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Hi, so India doesn't know much about its biggest competitor. So many models in the WS series originated from AL31?

Read my comment above Jack before dissing India

 

[Tatvamasi]

Really? Didn’t Modi say that he wanted to be a powerful country? Isn’t India constantly expanding its influence in the Indian Ocean and the Middle East? Isn’t India want to the hegemon of South Asia? Doesn’t India want to take more of the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau from China? Isn’t this proof that India wants to be a world power?India has no desire to expand yet?

I didnt realize you are this naive. Answer for every question above is no.

Every nation wants to be a powerful country, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aspire to be a global hegemon. Erdogan and Salman of Saudi Arabia express similar sentiments, each within their own context. Most of these ambitions are economic in nature. They cant even do it if they want to. There are certain fundamental geographical and constrains.

You are the real ostriches in this. Thinking everything through the lenses of Chinese Mandate of Heaven. Modi or leaders before never talked about conquering other nations or regions. Never in 2000 years of Indian history has that happened (Except for the smaller SA island conquest of the southern kingdoms). It was always incoming attacks that tried to take over the Indian subcontinent. With a large standing army, we did not even take part in UN-approved coalition wars even after invitaions.

There is no expansion any of the region as a hegemon that you listed even today. It is geographically impossible to conquer Tibet from India. You only need high school geography, but you choose to believe communist propaganda. There was never a plan then or today. The Chinese border was basically unprotected until the war when deceitful communists came in. Even basic infrastructure was lacking. How the *censored* do they plan an invation. Have some common sense.

Our military is not built for global reach; its mandate is regional. As the economy grows relative power will also grow. That doesnt mean we want to a hegemon. Indian foregin policy talks multi polarity and stratagic atonomy. We work with eleven ping on multiple forums to follow those goals not global dominance like yours.

Now, let's come back to the question of the incompetence of your military to change anything in the region. Zero experience and demonstrated capability even after growing for 30 years. Who exactly is boasting about the military?

 

[_Anonymous_]

If China is on Russia's blacklist, then what is the contract for 100 Su-30MKK/MK2 after 2000, what is the contract for hundreds of Mi-171s, and what is the contract for a large number of AL-31FNs? There is also a common sense mistake. China bought 24 Su-35s, not 36, which is a regiment of aircraft.

When did the CCP sign a contract for the purchase of the Su-30 MKK ? It was in 1996 .

China Buying Russian Combat Jets | Arms Control Association

Look I realise like all Wumaos you need to make a living but this isn't Weibo in case you haven't noticed .

 

[_Anonymous_]

You are absolutely right. India does not think highly of Russian technology. They admire European technology. I believe that India's Kafori engine has become a mature, stable and advanced engine, comparable to F414 and EJ200. As for why you can't see it, don't worry. Unpatriotic Indians can't see it.

So let's get this straight . The Chinese developed their WS series of TFs in their very first attempt isn't it ? The Kaveri will become everything you say it will be & MORE with time. That's what our agencies are working on & we will get there WITHOUT resorting to reverse engineering the CFM-56 or the AL-31F or by deploying some MSS idiot like Xu Yanjun. How old did you say you are Wumao ?