People's Liberation Army Navy : News & DIscussions

Not bad at all.

It doesn't have to operate on carriers only the J-35 can complement the J-20. Chicoms flatter us in trying to build their military to look like ours. They won't be a match for US in a combined arms conflict under high-tech conditions but they could be a problem for Japan, South Korea and Taiwan if they went at it alone without US. The only threat India is to chicoms is their nukes Indian conventional forces especially their air force won't be that much trouble for PLAAF.... unless India goes 5th gen very quickly.

It really is sad how Indian political incompetence has made the IAF a much less capable force compared to PLAAF. There was a time not too long ago when IAF was ahead of PLAAF when it came to quality of fighters. F-35 is right there for the buying which just about all of Europe has decided to buy no self respecting first world air force is buying Rafale which says a lot. Greece did buy a handful of Rafales but then decided F-35 too because they know Rafale is not a survivable platform for near future combat.

Come on India you're getting left behind for a huge air force.
Not only Chinese Air force,the gap between IAF & PAF is closing steadily.
And you won't sell F35 to India as long as we operates s400, in reality india did a biggest mistake by going with s400,these sistems will be neutralised by saturation attack from China using their tube artillery.
Not bad at all.

It doesn't have to operate on carriers only the J-35 can complement the J-20. Chicoms flatter us in trying to build their military to look like ours. They won't be a match for US in a combined arms conflict under high-tech conditions but they could be a problem for Japan, South Korea and Taiwan if they went at it alone without US. The only threat India is to chicoms is their nukes Indian conventional forces especially their air force won't be that much trouble for PLAAF.... unless India goes 5th gen very quickly.

It really is sad how Indian political incompetence has made the IAF a much less capable force compared to PLAAF. There was a time not too long ago when IAF was ahead of PLAAF when it came to quality of fighters. F-35 is right there for the buying which just about all of Europe has decided to buy no self respecting first world air force is buying Rafale which says a lot. Greece did buy a handful of Rafales but then decided F-35 too because they know Rafale is not a survivable platform for near future combat.

Come on India you're getting left behind for a huge air force.
The possibility of china selling J31/35 to pakistan is so certain too.
 
Not only Chinese Air force,the gap between IAF & PAF is closing steadily.
And you won't sell F35 to India as long as we operates s400, in reality india did a biggest mistake by going with s400,these sistems will be neutralised by saturation attack from China using their tube artillery.

The possibility of china selling J31/35 to pakistan is so certain too.
There's hope.
 
these sistems will be neutralised by saturation attack from China using their tube artillery
It's like saying a JF17 with some Chinese anti ship missile will sink the carrier. Ofcourse it can be a threat , but not a realistic one.

We bought S400 because our local system is not as of yet ready. We needed a long range SAM to take on threats. The total requirements were for 12 regiments actually. We have bought 5 S400 regiments. That leaves the requirements of 7 still.

S400 in Russian service has 5 different systems, all Russians. Im our service only 2 out of 5 will be borrowed from S400. That's why it will not be as easy to target and destroy a S400 battery in India as some Pakistani fanboys write.
 
It's like saying a JF17 with some Chinese anti ship missile will sink the carrier. Ofcourse it can be a threat , but not a realistic one.

We bought S400 because our local system is not as of yet ready. We needed a long range SAM to take on threats. The total requirements were for 12 regiments actually. We have bought 5 S400 regiments. That leaves the requirements of 7 still.

S400 in Russian service has 5 different systems, all Russians. Im our service only 2 out of 5 will be borrowed from S400. That's why it will not be as easy to target and destroy a S400 battery in India as some Pakistani fanboys write.
If 10000 jf17 comes together & attack a carrier battle group,it can easily disable ac from operating,may not be able to sink to the bottom,but definitely it's can.
Even Hamas with primitive tube artillery had made in to Israel by penetrating iron dome cover. That what a saturation attack will achieve,no matter how effective is s400 ,it will be defeated with saturation attack.
 
If 10000 jf17 comes together & attack a carrier battle group,it can easily disable ac from operating,may not be able to sink to the bottom,but definitely it's can.
Even Hamas with primitive tube artillery had made in to Israel by penetrating iron dome cover. That what a saturation attack will achieve,no matter how effective is s400 ,it will be defeated with saturation attack.
Do you know that Prahar Ballistic missile is a 420mm diameter?

See the moment you go beyond 300mm diameter, with a bigger warhead than 100-150kg and add a guidance kit where you want a under 10 meter accuracy, these things jack up the price from a mere rocket to a Ballistic missile. And only one nation in the world has resources to fire ballistic missile like mere rockets. And that's USA. Not China.

And when you say that you want a contemporary solution which reflects the modern baseline MRLS system a western army might use. We are close to it. Piniaka Mk2 with GPS/INS guidance getting around 30 meters of accuracy and range upto 75 kilometres. That's really top notch contemporary technology.

With a slightly bigger diameter of say like that of Smerch, we can get a more powerful motor and fuel so that the range can be 100-150km.

That's real good.
 
(navalnews, oct.01)

China’s 3rd Type 075 LHD Anhui 安徽 Commissioned With PLAN

China's third Type 075 Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) (NATO reporting name: Yushen-class LHA) was commissioned this week (likely today) with the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN or Chinese Navy)'s East Sea Fleet. The vessel is named after Anhui (安徽), an eastern Chinese province known for its Huangshan Mountains.​

A local ship spotter shared a picture on Weibo showing the Type 075 vessel (with pennant 33) in “full dress”, a display of flags in celebration of important events (in this case, the commissioning ceremony) as well as what is likely the PLAN ensign at the stern. Anhui (33) is the third ship of the class and was expected to join the PLAN by year-end.

First ship-in-class Hainan (pennant number 31) was commissioned with the PLAN during a grand ceremony on 23 April 2021 at the naval base in Sanya (Hainan island) in presence of Chinese president Xi Jinping. The vessel was launched in September 2019 and started sea trials in August 2020 . The second Type 075 Guangxi (32) was launched in April 2020, started its sea trials in December 2020 and was commissioned in December 2021.

Anhui (33) was launched in January 2021 and started sea trials in November 2021. This represents an impressive rate of one LHD launched every 6 months by the Hudong Zhonghua Shipyard in Shanghai. The same yard also produces frigates and LPDs for export.

About China's Type 075 LHD
The Chinese Navy officially started development work on the Type 075 in 2011. The project called for a helicopter carrier displacing more than 30,000 tonnes. Its aim is likely to increase the “vertical” amphibious assault capability with the very mountainous East Coast of Taiwan in mind.

As for its specifications, open data speak of “36,000 tons of displacement”, “capacity of 28 helicopters”, “diesel engine with the 12,000 kW 16PC2-6B” and “four CIWS including two HQ-10 and two H/PJ-11”.

While the Type 075 appears to be slightly smaller than the U.S. Navy’s LHA, it is larger compared to French or Spanish/Australian LHD equivalents. It is actually pretty close in size to Italy’s future Trieste LHD.

The first Type 075 was constructed in record time (this has become the norm nowadays, for Chinese shipbuilding: extremely fast construction pace that no one can match). While there is currently no evidence of more hulls being built, the PLAN is said to have an expressed need for eight ships of this class. A larger version is rumored to be planned (sometimes referred as Type 076).

When fully operational, the new Type 075 LHD will bolster the PLAN’s amphibious capabilities, which today rely on the Type 071 LPD design.
 
(scmp, oct.29)

China’s submarine fleet may soon be powered by lithium batteries​

Technical solutions have been found through extensive development and testing in booming electric car market, according to navy study Researchers say that replacing problematic lead-acid batteries with lithium could significantly boost subs’ survival and combat abilities​

China’s large fleet of conventional submarines could soon be powered by lithium-ion batteries as a result of advances in the country’s world-leading electric car industry, according to a Chinese navy study.
A lithium power source – instead of lead-acid batteries – could more than double the time a submarine can spend under water, give it Tesla-style acceleration and create more room for weapons, said researchers with the Naval Submarine Academy in Qingdao, Shandong province.
The changes could significantly boost a submarine’s survival and combat abilities, they said in a paper published in peer-reviewed Chinese journal Marine Electric and Electronic Engineering on October 15. The navy had concerns about replacing batteries in the submarine fleet with lithium ones, in particular that they could catch fire or explode. But according to the study, technical solutions have been found through extensive development and testing in China’s electric car market – and lithium batteries have been shown to work safely in challenging situations.

“After solving these problems, the replacement of lead-acid batteries with lithium batteries in conventional submarines is just around the corner,” said the team led by Wang Feng, a submarine designer at the academy.
China has the world’s largest conventional submarine fleet, with an estimated 60 to 70 vessels.
Conventional submarines use diesel engines on the surface, but when submerged the propulsion system and other equipment draw power from a battery. In battery mode, they make less noise than a nuclear submarine that must use large, powerful pumps to cool the reactor. All US Navy submarines are nuclear-powered and there have reportedly been cases of modern conventional subs going undetected until they were dangerously close.
The main purpose of China’s conventional submarine fleet is to protect its coastal areas and strategic waters including the Taiwan Strait and the South China Sea.
But the lead-acid batteries on these subs, barely changed since World War II, have been problematic, according to the paper, which cited low energy storage capacity, being slow to charge, weak power output, a short lifespan and toxic gas leaks.
The Chinese military has been planning to replace lead-acid batteries in its conventional submarine fleet with lithium technology for more than a decade.
In theory, lithium can hold five times or more electricity than lead and has a much faster charge or discharge. But accidents – including exploding smartphone batteries – have raised concerns about the safety of the technology.
These accidents were in part caused by nickel and cobalt, elements that are added to boost the battery’s performance, and in recent years some Chinese battery makers have replaced them with iron and phosphate.
Low-cost and commonly available, iron and phosphate can form highly stable structures that significantly improve the safety of lithium batteries without causing a big drop in performance. In the Chinese market, the number of new electric cars using the iron phosphate technology has now surpassed those that use nickel and cobalt, according to industry data.
China depends heavily on other countries for supplies of nickel and cobalt, so lithium battery-powered submarines would most likely use the iron phosphate approach, according to Wang’s team, which could not be reached for comment.
They said other new and proven technologies – including hard carbon and a ceramic coating for battery cell packaging – would also be used for the submarines to improve safety.
China produces three-quarters of the world’s electric car batteries.
“Large-capacity lithium-ion batteries for electric cars have been successfully developed and their performance is world-leading,” the researchers said in the paper.
The booming electric car market has also brought changes in the defence industry.
“Lithium-ion batteries have been widely used in aerospace and defence including individual soldier systems, army combat vehicles, military communication equipment, the navy’s mini submarines and underwater vehicles and the air force’s unmanned reconnaissance aircraft,” Wang said in the paper.
China is not the only country seeking to equip its submarines with lithium batteries. Japan’s navy was the first to do so, in 2018, adding the metal manganese to the submarine’s lithium battery to improve safety but at the cost of performance.
South Korea launched its first lithium-powered submarine in 2021, using nickel and cobalt. The battery was technically the same as those used in smartphones, but the South Korean military said it had more protection measures built in to ensure its safe operation at sea.
Germany and France have also developed prototype lithium batteries for submarine use with plans for military service in the near future.
 

With Over 2000 Pilots Killed, China Is Struggling With Its Aviators Despite Three Aircraft Carriers & An Enormous Air Force​

China’s ambitions to develop cutting-edge aircraft achieved a significant turning point when the J-10, a homegrown fourth-generation jet fighter, was introduced in 1998 by the state-owned Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group.

According to a Chinese media report, the J-10 project was greatly aided by a five-person team of Chinese test pilots trained to fly US warplanes aircraft in the UK. This also paved the way for creating the technologically sophisticated J-20 fifth-generation aircraft.

The SCMP report claimed that Lei Qiang, the son of a Korean war pilot and a member of the five-person team, was chosen to fly the first flight of the J-10 on March 23, 1998.

Just six months before that, the report said that Lei and his four companions had learned to operate the American aircraft from an international test pilot academy established by a former flight instructor at the UK’s Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment.

Lei Qiang (with bouquet), the test pilot for the J-10’s maiden flight, and J-10 chief designer Song Wencong (right) on March 23, 1998, after the prototype landed. Photo: Handout
Lei Qiang (with bouquet), the test pilot for the J-10’s maiden flight, and J-10 chief designer Song Wencong (right) on March 23, 1998, after the prototype, landed. Photo: Handout
The report highlighted that Yang Wei, who oversaw design work on the J-20 stealth aircraft, was mentored by Song Wencong, chief designer of the J-10.

Nonetheless, it has been frequently stated that China has had difficulty training its fighter pilots. According to SCMP, the air force lost more than 2,000 pilots in the last six decades, 30 of whom were test pilots.

The Chinese air force’s test pilot school had developed a thorough and organized curriculum based on American publications about the training of test pilots.

Western Pilots Training Chinese Air Force

China reportedly recruited Western-trained fighter pilots to train its People’s Liberation Army (PLA) pilots, providing Beijing’s fast-modernizing air force with in-depth knowledge of Western air warfare tactics.

Several media publications reported that Western pilots had assisted Beijing in advancing its technological know-how and operational strategies. Fat pay cheques were used to entice pilots from the UK, France, and the US to train Chinese pilots.

The recent detention of a retired US Marine Corps pilot in Australia shows how seriously Western nations take such training and how keen they are to protect their military training secrets.

Alman Helvas, a Defense Market & Industry Consultant, told the EurAsian Times that only a small number of nations in the Indo-Pacific region have a lot of pilots with combat experience.

He said that “only Indian and Pakistani pilots have combat experience, while other nations have no such experience yet. That’s why China recruits Western pilots to give their pilots real air warfare experience. While China has adopted more advanced aircraft in recent years, we can’t deny that their pilots have no real combat experience.”

“We don’t know how proficient Chinese pilots are in air combat. That’s why they are actively recruiting Western pilots to have the latest knowledge about current air combat development in the West,” he added.

Similarly, Ben Lewis, a defense Analyst focusing on PLA development and Taiwan security issues, told the EurAsian Times, “China’s recruitment of Western pilots is not surprising given their goals. The PLA hasn’t fought a war since the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese war, and the PLA has undergone massive changes since that time, especially the PLAAF and PLANAF.”

Lewis further said, “the West has continued to engage in conflicts over the last 40 years, providing them with a massive asymmetry in combat experience compared to the PLA.

China is sure that the United States and its allies will intervene in a possible Taiwan confrontation. In that case, their pilots will be expected to hold their own against enemy pilots who have much more experience.”

He emphasized that employing combat pilots from the West with expertise in leading offensive air operations is one way to overcome that disparity. He suggested that having instructors with actual combat experience train pilots offers “invaluable benefits.”

“I also think one could argue that hiring Western pilots allows China to understand how Western air operations function, but I am confident they already have a solid understanding of that. I think that while this development is not necessarily unexpected, it represents a security concern to Western nations that may find themselves involved in a conflict with China,” Lewis added.

Meanwhile, Helvas noted, “we should be aware of Chinese propaganda about their pilot’s proficiency. Look what happen to Russia’s pilot performance in Ukraine. Russian pilots are not proficient. I believe a similar case happened in China.

To some extent, I believe China has exaggerated its pilot proficiency. Unlike Western pilots who have air combat experiences since the civil war in the former Yugoslavia to Iraq and Afghanistan, Chinese pilot has no experience at all in air combat in the last 20 years.”

Need For More Skilled Fighter Pilots

China’s three aircraft carriers, two of which have been commissioned and one launched in June, represent China’s expanding naval might. However, it appears that the country will have difficulty using these carriers as it struggles to keep up with the rising need for skilled ship-based fighter jet pilots.

A Chinese media report, citing an article published in Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Chinese military magazine, highlighted how the Chinese Navy still doesn’t have a fighter trainer designed for carrier-based operations despite deploying its first aircraft carrier a decade ago.

The report quoted Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie saying that the PLA required at least 200 qualified carrier-based fighter jet pilots to fly 130 ship-borne aircraft after Fujian began sea trials last week. Fujian is China’s third and most advanced aircraft carrier.

While China’s first two carriers had ski-jump designs, the Fujian has advanced electromagnetic catapults. Thus, the Navy must learn a new aircraft launch and recovery system.

“It’s full of challenges,” Jie remarked, “as aircraft design and pilot training are among the world’s most difficult and complicated core technologies – which no one will share with you.”

Dai Mingmeng, one of the first five Chinese pilots to receive ship-borne certification, piloted a J-15 prototype on its debut flight from the deck of the Liaoning on November 3, 2012. At the time, he was 41 years old.

a8478b56-73f3-479d-bd04-b6132cceeb03.jpeg
China’s J-15 fighter jet
The report said he is now training the new generation and other senior carrier-capable pilots. Since 2020, the Navy has directly enlisted cadets from high school graduates aged 16 to 19.

The current group of new naval aviation pilot cadets had an average age of 20, making them at least ten years younger than their predecessors. Following the creation of the Naval Aeronautical University in Yantai, Shandong province, in 2017, the PLA Navy began training its pilots rather than selecting competent applicants from the Air Force.

The US Navy also employs a similar strategy to recruit its fighter pilots. Nonetheless, the report describes the difficulties Chinese Navy fighter pilots encounter during their training.

7KCALRQ4GVGD3LMLVXLHNEWM5U.jpg
T-7A Red Hawk
Chinese Navy (PLAN) pilots employ a single-engine, twin-seat version of the Chinese-built JL-9G as a carrier trainer. This aircraft was initially unveiled in 2011.

However, it cannot be used to simulate emergency landings on a flight deck due to limitations such as being too light and slow. As a result of these drawbacks, it has been restricted to land-based simulated carrier training.

The report also stated that the United States military had used the T-45 Goshawk carrier-qualified trainer to instruct its pilot cadets for several decades.

The Americans have since built a more sophisticated derivative, the T-7A Red Hawk, allowing for more efficient ship-borne fighter pilot training. The T-7A Red Hawk is outfitted with a more powerful General Electric F404 after-burning turbofan engine.

What Do Analysts Think About The Situation?

Rod Lee, a military enthusiast who closely follows the Chinese Air Force, has different views. He claims that “in 2017, they [China] more than doubled the size of its annual pilot cadet class from the 150-200 neighborhood to 400+. They’ve sustained that 400+ over the past five years.”

He further explained that “with a 50% washout rate (probably closer to 45%) and a five-year training period (closer to 6 w/transition), that means the PLAN brought in an extra 35 pilots starting this year and will continue to do so through 2027. This number is likely allocated to the carrier force.”

He also refutes that the PLAN trained “its pilots – rather than picking qualified candidates from the air force,” stating that “the PLAN actively poached PLAAF pilots.”

Shenyang-J-15-1.jpg
Shenyang J-15
He concluded that “most of the article talks about the technical limitations of the PLAN’s lack of a carrier trainer aircraft, but that has nothing to do with struggling to find enough pilots.”

In a similar line, Brian Hart, a fellow with the China Power Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), said, “Training and retaining talented pilots is a challenge for any military. The PLA has challenges, especially given the demands of expanding naval aviation. But let’s not overhype their challenges/weaknesses.”

China’s Naval J-15 Fighter Jet

The Shenyang J-15, famous as the “Flying Shark,” is a fourth-generation Chinese all-weather twinjet fighter aircraft. It is China’s only ship-borne fighter jet.

The aircraft was mainly designed and developed for the People’s Liberation Army Naval Air Force (PLANAF) to operate on its aircraft carriers by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) and the 601 Institute.

This fighter has been labeled the heaviest carrier-borne fighter in the world. It weighs around 17.5 tons and can travel at Mach 2.4, or just over 2,960 km/h. On the other hand, the JL-9G trainer’s top speed is Mach 1.05, and its gross weight is only 7.8 tons.

“The PLA does not have the luxury of owning a trainer like the T-45, so Chinese pilot cadets’ carrier-based training entirely relies on flying the J-15, posing a great challenge to improving their flying skills [because of the absence of a back-seat coach],” the Chinese military magazine said. In April 2016, two J-15 fighters collided, causing one death and one serious injury.

According to Macau-based military researcher Antony Wong Tong, China has built a twin-seat J-15S variant. However, recent footage released by official media revealed that the platform had been transformed into the ship-borne J-15D electronic warfare aircraft.

The twin-seat J-15S is still being tested in China, according to Zhou Chenming, a researcher with the Beijing-based Yuan Wang, a military science and technology think tank. This is akin to how the Americans did it when they produced the twin-seat F-15E Strike Eagle and other variants of the F-15 Eagle.

Nevertheless, some analysts believe the J-15’s heavier weight gives it a competitive advantage in air-to-air combat by enabling it to carry more fuel and a heavier payload of weaponry.

China claims that the J-15 is on par with the US Navy’s F/A-18 and, in some instances, outperforms the US Navy’s primary carrier-based strike fighter. Experts believe that J-15 is capable but would most likely lose if pitted against a F/A-18.

f-18
File Image: F-18 Super Hornet
“The US aircraft has superior radar,” Timothy Heath, a RAND Corporation senior defense researcher, said. “That’s a huge advantage being able to shoot from a very long range because you can see the enemy first. That gives the F/A-18 a big advantage, even over a more nimble and faster aircraft,” he added.

“The US is banking on the sensor battle, this idea that the US can see first and shoot first to compensate for general limitations on speed and maneuver and weapons load,” Heath said.

There is no denying that the Chinese Navy has achieved significant strides in the naval sphere. Still, it will inevitably encounter difficulties that it must resolve swiftly if it hopes to rival the US Navy globally.
 
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Admiral Samuel J. Paparo, commander of the United States Pacific Fleet (#USPACFLT), said during a conference on 18 November that all six #SNLE / #SSBN Type 09IV are now equipped with the Jù Làng-3 (JL-3): 10,000 km+. Global Times quoted him as saying.
thread:
The Strategic Sea-Ground Ballistic Missile (#MSBS) / Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile (#SLBM) "巨浪-2" ("giant wave") or Jù Làng-3 (JL-3) is said to have been developed on the basis of studies carried out for the DF-41, the so-called "4th generation" #ICBM.
The JL-3 programme appears to be less well documented than those that led to the JL-1 and JL-2. The test programme - with inert, dynamic and test missile firings - would have taken place between 2012 and 2019, with the Type 032 in particular. The first flight test firing would have taken place on 2 June 2019.
The JL-3 has always been considered as the MSBS / SLBM for the future Type 09VI. It would have been introduced on the Type 09IV since 2016 and would have completed the replacement of the JL-2 in 2022. And would have incidentally led to adaptation work on the Type 09IV, hence the architectural modifications to the missile deck and what may have been presented as Type 09IVA.
There does not seem to be a definitive agreement on the maximum range of the JL-3, which, according to sources and assertions, ranges between 10,000 km+ and 14,000 km, with a maximum payload of 5 to 10 "MIRVed" nuclear warheads (and decoys?).
It would be ~13 metres long with an estimated diameter of ~2.35 metres.
According to the actual status of the maximum range: the entire continental US (COntiguous United States (#CONUS) would now be reachable from a #SNLE Type 09IV on patrol in the South China Sea.
This makes the JL-3 equivalent to a Trident 2D5, 3М30 (GRAU) Р-30 Булава (NATO code: SS-N-32) or an M51.2: the ocean component of China's nuclear deterrent would thus reach the state of the art. It remains to be seen whether the programmes currently underway include Maneuverable Reentry Vehicle (MaRV) or even hypersonic gliders.
 
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Preligens-Repo-Detecting-Chinas-Aircraft-Carriers.jpg

(from navalnews, nov.30)

Preligens Report: Detecting China’s Aircraft Carriers​

Preligens, the expert in artificial intelligence in the service of satellite image analysis for Defense, published a report on the aircraft carriers of the Chinese navy (PLAN).​

This document gathers detections and identifications on optical satellite imagery for the three Chinese PLAN aircraft carriers. Preligens content and expert teams are pleased to detail:

  1. Detection & identification of the Type 001, Type 002 and of the newly launched Type 003;
  2. A study of their homeports and related infrastructures;
  3. A monitoring for recent movements of those 3 assets.
(eng.pdf, 8pages)