Pralay and Shaurya: Conventional Strike Surface-to-Surface Missiles

[HariPrasad]

Pretty normal.



AAD became Prahar/Pragati. And PDV became Pralay.

When we tested PDV, I had predicted that its S to S variant will come like Prahar Derived from AAD. It came eventually. Air defense systems are built for quick response to moving target. Its same property can be used to suit quasi ballistic trajectory. It maneuvers a lot in flight but ultimately hits the designated target.

 

[HariPrasad]

This was displayed officially in defexpo by DRDO. So, I would say that this is a credible source for Pralay's weight:

The information given in broachers. Range of 350 KM with 1000 KG Payload and 400 KM range with 500 kg payload. This usually do not happen. When the payload is reduced to half, Range should increase by at least 60%. Do not know how this happened.

 

[marich01]

The information given in broachers. Range of 350 KM with 1000 KG Payload and 400 KM range with 500 kg payload. This usually do not happen. When the payload is reduced to half, Range should increase by at least 60%. Do not know how this happened.

The warhead-vs-range thing is kinda misleading for everything they make, maybe that config was the initial design parameter, even if some things do not add up. The actual warheads made for Pralay , there are PR-350 and PR-700, one a 370kg warhead while the other is 700kg. PF and pc I think, the dpicm one is being made don't know the weight yet. It is possible that there would be 350kg and 700kg versions.

Pruthvi/Dhanush payload capacity was also confusing wrt different services versions but then we had specific 1 ton and 500kg warheads shown and esp the naval version you could customise a bit when preparing the missile before mission. These solid fuel ones are rather vague number wise.

 

[Rajput Lion]

When we tested PDV, I had predicted that its S to S variant will come like Prahar Derived from AAD. It came eventually. Air defense systems are built for quick response to moving target. Its same property can be used to suit quasi ballistic trajectory. It maneuvers a lot in flight but ultimately hits the designated target.

Pralay is derived from B-05(minus first stage booster + nose cap)/Sagarika/Sharuya. It has nothing to do with PDV.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Pralay is derived from B-05(minus first stage booster + nose cap)/Sagarika/Sharuya. It has nothing to do with PDV.

Before anyone comes at my throat asking for the all-essential 'proof', here it is:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607815787687079937

K-15/Shaurya's diameter is 740mm, exactly the same as Pralay. PDV is much different:

 

[marich01]

General dimension of the stages is in the pic in the last page drawing.

Sagarika and its land vector shaurya being derived from same airframe as it is very critical process to develop large case bonded crmc. In fact Sagarika and shaurya were not even crmc, we know now that both the land and underwater vectors are going through transformation by being converted into full crmc stages. B-05 has already had at least 1 test this year in April, maybe more depending on status. The PIB report was cryptic but clear enough hint. We can expect Shaurya to follow the same. this is for a 740mm dia class rocket motor.

Next we have od 1400mm class rocket motor stage , ASAT and K4 plus LR-AShM. We already saw in the k4 video, both stages looked crmc, a change from 2013 full metallic airframe body.
We also have the unique od 1200mm dia class A1P , which is full crmc again and this rocket motor stage can see future tactical use maybe if they are willing?
I forgot what was A4 dia class but given it also has mk2 so maybe 1400mm single stage then 1m stage ?

Next we got 2000mm dia class A3 and A5 well proven , now with mirv. So this is also now full crmc all stages. Extremely powerful but other than long range system no other use yet, future asat mk2 hopefully?

Next we got 2500mm dia class veda and K5 stage, crmc right from the beginning, already done static firing once. No telling just how massive capability this would have. So this is systematic progression and maturity in rocketry knowledge. Probably the same mirv bus on A5 mirv is used in veda upper stage 2m dia for the sat launch purpose. More no of rv holding bus is for the 2.5m stage for slbm use.

Question is should we restrict our rocket forces to Pralay class , similar dia motor of the nuke vectors but highly restricted range ? This is a political choice & a matter of will. We can easily have 1.5 meter dia class rocket motor based tactical long range systems made for conventional war. But no, anything that crosses 1000km range goes straight into SFC inventory

 

[Speedster1]

The warhead-vs-range thing is kinda misleading for everything they make, maybe that config was the initial design parameter, even if some things do not add up. The

Wish they didn't do that anymore. In any case, our enemies know of our true capabilities full well.

When A5 was first tested, a Global Times report called out the actual range as being in excess of 8000 km, quoting Chinese experts.

Those spy ships are clearly soaking in a ton of data as they criss-cross the IOR.

 

[marich01]

Wish they didn't do that anymore. In any case, our enemies know of our true capabilities full well.

When A5 was first tested, a Global Times report called out the actual range as being in excess of 8000 km, quoting Chinese experts.

Those spy ships are clearly soaking in a ton of data as they criss-cross the IOR.

Range is entirely relative to the payload as we know. What matters is the accuracy bit, miniaturization and compactness of the internal electronics packages, the ability for ECCM maybe, high complex algorithm that guides the rocket, navigation package, bmd evasion ability things like that. Very tough to create a strong system of systems and make it work as you want.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Range is entirely relative to the payload as we know.

As per some experts, even good ol' A-3 had ICBM range with a lighter payload.

What matters is the accuracy bit, miniaturization and compactness of the internal electronics packages, the ability for ECCM maybe, high complex algorithm that guides the rocket, navigation package, bmd evasion ability things like that. Very tough to create a strong system of systems and make it work as you want.

And thanks to Lord Jagganath, we've done all of that with some more

 

[Speedster1]

In fact Sagarika and shaurya were not even crmc, we know now that both the land and underwater vectors are going through transformation by being converted into full crmc stages.

IIRC Janes estimated the actual range of K15 as 1500km. With CRMC, it should theoretically breach at least the 2k km mark. That would make a notional K15 Mk2 a credible threat to China and cover all of Pak.

Question is should we restrict our rocket forces to Pralay class , similar dia motor of the nuke vectors but highly restricted range ? This is a political choice & a matter of will. We can easily have 1.5 meter dia class rocket motor based tactical long range systems made for conventional war. But no, anything that crosses 1000km range goes straight into SFC inventory

I think differentiaton between N and conventional vectors is a key reason for this. Even the US is/was considering conventional tipping some of its ICBMs for 'Prompt Global Strike'. Wonder how they planned to address the differentiaton problem but things have been quiet on this front for some time now. They could be moving on hypersonics+ new missiles like PrSM and S2S SM-3/6.

 

[HariPrasad]

Pralay is derived from B-05(minus first stage booster + nose cap)/Sagarika/Sharuya. It has nothing to do with PDV.

This is a totally new information for me Bro. Cheers.

 

[marich01]

This is a totally new information for me Bro. Cheers.

Earlier posts on this thread has full infographic

Post in thread 'Pralay and Shaurya: Conventional Strike Surface-to-Surface Missiles'

Oct 3, 2020

I had since long consistently maintained that shaurya was in operational service ( mostly in the other forum )

A new launcher with integrated gas booster and mounted on a TEL was deployed since long .

Also attachment of logistics vehicles like reloading crane mounted on a vehicle lends credibility to the same.

Also parts for shaurya was under continuous production across the industry , why ? If not already in production ?

Shaurya AFAIK is deployed in both fixed and mobile modes on land

Today's test was an updated shaurya with newer avionic subsystems developed for pralay

Also pralay...

• hellbent

• 
• 

 

[HariPrasad]

I had since long consistently maintained that shaurya was in operational service ( mostly in the other forum )

A new launcher with integrated gas booster and mounted on a TEL was deployed since long .

Also attachment of logistics vehicles like reloading crane mounted on a vehicle lends credibility to the same.

Also parts for shaurya was under continuous production across the industry , why ? If not already in production ?

Shaurya AFAIK is deployed in both fixed and mobile modes on land

Today's test was an updated shaurya with newer avionic subsystems developed for pralay

Also pralay is same as shaurya more or less. It is based on it and I personally consider pralay ( TVC , no booster ) as variant of shaurya ( no TVC , with booster ) designed for niche roles with reduced ranges , optimised role specific warheads , better deployment options , reduced costs , lower logistics and better targetting options etc

I made this 2 months ago

View attachment 18018

And another one a year back, that's the new Tel , the arrow marks indicates the support beams for the canvas inorder to cover the cannister launcher during transport .

View attachment 18019

Ok but something which creates doubt is;

1) Shaurya is much faster at speed of around Mach 8 while Pralay is slow with a speed around Mach 5+
2) Shaurya IS less maneuverable while Pralay is far more maneuverable which can be seen from its video release.

If above is the case, then it is tuned for lower speed for range optimization and maneuverability.

 

[Rajput Lion]

This is a totally new information for me Bro. Cheers.

Thanks buddy

Ok but something which creates doubt is;

1) Shaurya is much faster at speed of around Mach 8 while Pralay is slow with a speed around Mach 5+

That is because of the first stage booster. Otherwise Pralay too uses same high-energy propellant developed for K-15.

2) Shaurya IS less maneuverable while Pralay is far more maneuverable which can be seen from its video release.

Nope. Both use the exact same aerodynamic planform and control surfaces. Both are quasi-ballistic and are designed to defeat enemy BMD systems.

If above is the case, then it is tuned for lower speed for range optimization and maneuverability.

Just because of the lack of the first stage booster, Pralay has lower range and slightly lower speed. Rest, both Shaurya and Pralay are very similar missiles.

 

[samsaptaka]

With CRMC, it should theoretically breach at least the 2k km mark.

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is CRMC ?

 

[Speedster1]

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is CRMC ?

Hey, np. That's not a standard abbreviation just my lazy habit of using shorthand for everything. crmc is composite rocket motor casing

 

[Ashwin]

So, Pralay diameter is 740mm.

We need something new with 600mm that can be fired from a common rocker launcher pods.

Saving for the record.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

View attachment 38155

So, Pralay diameter is 740mm.

We need something new with 600mm that can be fired from a common rocker launcher pods.

Saving for the record.

For rocket artillery we can always turn to pod based Prahar variants. 150-250km range.

Pralay is our Iskander equivalent. Russians are moving to allocate an Iskander detachment for each 2-3 battalions fighting across a front. We should be aiming to mass produce it the same way and deploy it across all our IBGs.

 

[Ashwin]

For rocket artillery we can always turn to pod based Prahar variants. 150-250km range.

Yes, that's the ~400mm part, for which we have options as you mentioned. We need something in the ~600mm part that is currently missing. A 150km range ~300mm rocket is also in the works.

It could be the reason BEL is pursuing a license for the production of LORA.

Pralay is our Iskander equivalent. Russians are moving to allocate an Iskander detachment for each 2-3 battalions fighting across a front. We should be aiming to mass produce it the same way and deploy it across all our IBGs.

Yes, but Pralay will be very expensive. I think it will be limited by replacing the Prithvi role in the Indian Army/Indian Air Force unless they establish a new rocket force.

 

[marich01]

So, Pralay diameter is 740mm.

Also available here : https://drdoaeroindia2023.com/rci/broucher/RCI.pdf