Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions
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Indian diesel submarine using the ToT and design for scorpene and the experience of nuclear submarine can be built without giving unnecessary money to any foreign country
Mazagon Dock may bag $8-b P75I submarine project
NAYANIMA BASUT+ T-
Military might A Scorpene class submarine constructed by Mazagon Dock - PTI
Move will be a positive development for French shipbuilding major Naval Group with which the Indian shipyard has a partnership
NEW DELHI, APRIL 2
The $8-billion ‘Project-75 India’ programme by the Indian Navy that entails building six advanced submarines is likely to be grabbed by Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (MDL) on a nomination basis even as private sector players are grappling with lack of orders.
The decision was taken last week at a meeting chaired by the Minister of Defence Nirmala Sitharaman where it was planned that the programme, also called as P75(I), will not be rolled out under Strategic Partnership (SP) Policy in the Defence Procurement Procedure 2016 as was initially decided, sources told BusinessLine.
“The Defence Ministry has now decided to withdraw the P75(I) Submarine Programme from the SP Policy that was originally mooted by former Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and award the contract on a nomination basis to MDL,” said an official, who refused to be identified.
Technically the decision comes as a positive development for French shipbuilding conglomerate Naval Group with which MDL already has partnership under transfer of technology (ToT) arrangement for the ongoing $3.75-billion ‘Project 75’ or P-75l, in which six Scorpene-class submarines are being built.
The decision is expected to sound a death knell for players like Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and Reliance whose shipyards at Kattupalli and Pipavav respectively are reeling under heavy losses on account of lack of orders from the Defence Ministry, sources said.
“The private shipyards have become loss-making units with a turnover of ₹1,000 crore or less. There were expectations that the P75(I) will come to the private players under the SP policy but it seems that the plan is now shelved,” said an industry representative, who refused to be identified.
The P75(I) programme was announced in October 2014. Thereafter, in 2016 the Navy issued a request for information (RFI) to six global submarine makers seeking to build six advanced submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology, which enables the submarines to stay under water for a longer period. Besides, the proposed submarines will have a vertical launch system with a brand new cruise missile that will be used as the main anti-ship missile.
The six players which received the RFI includes — ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Naval Group (France), Navantia (Spain), SAAB (Sweden), Rubin Design Bureau-Amur Shipyard (Russia and Italy), Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries (Japan).
However, in October 2017 when the Ministry was being headed by Finance and Corporate Affairs Minister Arun Jaitley the government got responses to the RFI from France, Germany, Russia and Sweden.
Subsequently, the Defence Ministry started drafting the expressions of interest (EoI) to be issued to the Indian private sector shipyards for selection of the strategic partner with the appointment of SBI Caps as advisor. The final award for these contracts were aimed at creating submarine-building capabilities in the private sector to augment the pace of production that ails the government shipyards.
However, it seems now that Minister Sitharaman has decided to undo all that. Interestingly, the decision comes within less than a month of the French President Emmanuel Macron’s visit to India. The French, according to sources, pushed for the project aggressively during the bilateral meeting between Macron and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
Mazagon Dock may bag $8-b P75I submarine project
NAYANIMA BASUT+ T-
Military might A Scorpene class submarine constructed by Mazagon Dock - PTI
Move will be a positive development for French shipbuilding major Naval Group with which the Indian shipyard has a partnership
NEW DELHI, APRIL 2
The $8-billion ‘Project-75 India’ programme by the Indian Navy that entails building six advanced submarines is likely to be grabbed by Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (MDL) on a nomination basis even as private sector players are grappling with lack of orders.
The decision was taken last week at a meeting chaired by the Minister of Defence Nirmala Sitharaman where it was planned that the programme, also called as P75(I), will not be rolled out under Strategic Partnership (SP) Policy in the Defence Procurement Procedure 2016 as was initially decided, sources told BusinessLine.
“The Defence Ministry has now decided to withdraw the P75(I) Submarine Programme from the SP Policy that was originally mooted by former Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and award the contract on a nomination basis to MDL,” said an official, who refused to be identified.
Technically the decision comes as a positive development for French shipbuilding conglomerate Naval Group with which MDL already has partnership under transfer of technology (ToT) arrangement for the ongoing $3.75-billion ‘Project 75’ or P-75l, in which six Scorpene-class submarines are being built.
The decision is expected to sound a death knell for players like Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and Reliance whose shipyards at Kattupalli and Pipavav respectively are reeling under heavy losses on account of lack of orders from the Defence Ministry, sources said.
“The private shipyards have become loss-making units with a turnover of ₹1,000 crore or less. There were expectations that the P75(I) will come to the private players under the SP policy but it seems that the plan is now shelved,” said an industry representative, who refused to be identified.
The P75(I) programme was announced in October 2014. Thereafter, in 2016 the Navy issued a request for information (RFI) to six global submarine makers seeking to build six advanced submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology, which enables the submarines to stay under water for a longer period. Besides, the proposed submarines will have a vertical launch system with a brand new cruise missile that will be used as the main anti-ship missile.
The six players which received the RFI includes — ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Naval Group (France), Navantia (Spain), SAAB (Sweden), Rubin Design Bureau-Amur Shipyard (Russia and Italy), Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries (Japan).
However, in October 2017 when the Ministry was being headed by Finance and Corporate Affairs Minister Arun Jaitley the government got responses to the RFI from France, Germany, Russia and Sweden.
Subsequently, the Defence Ministry started drafting the expressions of interest (EoI) to be issued to the Indian private sector shipyards for selection of the strategic partner with the appointment of SBI Caps as advisor. The final award for these contracts were aimed at creating submarine-building capabilities in the private sector to augment the pace of production that ails the government shipyards.
However, it seems now that Minister Sitharaman has decided to undo all that. Interestingly, the decision comes within less than a month of the French President Emmanuel Macron’s visit to India. The French, according to sources, pushed for the project aggressively during the bilateral meeting between Macron and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
Mazagon Dock may bag $8-b P75I submarine project
Surely the ask from the Indian side is Barracuda. GoI/MoD is making the move here. Let's see how France responds.
Barracuda is a nuclear submarine. I don't think MDL will be making a SSN for P75I project.
If I am right, the P75I will be indigenous submarine without French parts. The DCNS was not permanently merged with MDL but just cooperated as part of ToT agreement for P75. Now the ToT is near completion and MDL may already have the expertise needed without French parts. Also, since India made its own nuclear submarines, the ability of making submarines in India is decent enough
India Misses Deadline for Issuing Naval Hardware Tender
India has missed the deadline for issuing tenders to procure submarines and naval helicopters after approvals for Indian Navy’s three major procurement programs lapsed in the last 10 months, according to people with knowledge of the development.
The navy will need begin afresh the process for buying the submarinesworth $7.5 billion and helicopters worth $5 billion, they said, asking not to be identified as the information is not yet public. The approvals for procurement, issued by the Defence Acquisition Council, is valid for six months within which the tenders must be issued.
India has missed the deadline for issuing tenders to procure submarines and naval helicopters after approvals for Indian Navy’s three major procurement programs lapsed in the last 10 months, according to people with knowledge of the development.
The navy will need begin afresh the process for buying the submarinesworth $7.5 billion and helicopters worth $5 billion, they said, asking not to be identified as the information is not yet public. The approvals for procurement, issued by the Defence Acquisition Council, is valid for six months within which the tenders must be issued.
These days it feels like Saint antony days were better.
No. That would be an over statement. The sins of Antony is impossible to match. Did you forget about the submarine blast because he didn't approve to buy batteries?? That was just one of the many blunders he committed.These days it feels like Saint antony days were better.
Can't have a submarine explode if you don't have a submarine because you failed to issue a tender on time
.
Not sure that's really an improvement over your previous regime.
Hopefully the tender will be issued soon, because subsurface warfare is paramount to the IN with Pakistan and China progressing their surface fleets and undersea arms. I work in procurement (sometimes), maybe you can hire me to iron these things out for you
? You can pay me in cookies too.We're acquiring modified Type 212As, jointly purchased with Germany (with the Netherlands and Poland potentially joining). Turns out building submarines is just about the only thing Germany actually does right. Every other program they start is either ceased half way or turns out weird. With France turning over their naval arm and Russia looking for next-gen subsurface boats of both AIP and nuclear design there might be an opportunity for a tie-up there if the P-75I doesn't turn out for you or you're looking for an augment to their units.
If by any chance you're still waffling on issuing a tender several years from now, which is always a realistic possibility with your procurement issues, we'll have a handful of Type 210s on the block for you
. Slightly used and run like butt in warm waters, but hey, the discount will be nice.
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So what kind of cookies are we talking about?? and how much that is the question?Can't have a submarine explode if you don't have a submarine because you failed to issue a tender on time
Not sure that's really an improvement over your previous regime.
Hopefully the tender will be issued soon, because subsurface warfare is paramount to the IN with Pakistan and China progressing their surface fleets and undersea arms. I work in procurement (sometimes), maybe you can hire me to iron these things out for you
We're acquiring modified Type 212As, jointly purchased with Germany (with the Netherlands and Poland potentially joining). Turns out building submarines is just about the only thing Germany actually does right. Every other program they start is either ceased half way or turns out weird. With France turning over their naval arm and Russia looking for next-gen subsurface boats of both AIP and nuclear design there might be an opportunity for a tie-up there if the P-75I doesn't turn out for you or you're looking for an augment to their units.
If by any chance you're still waffling on issuing a tender several years from now, which is always a realistic possibility with your procurement issues, we'll have a handful of Type 210s on the block for you
That story has too many holes. Possibly politically motivated. Why would he do that if all the papers/procedures were correct and followed?
there is something else brewing under the scene wait and watch atleast on the helicopter and submarine front.
@Dr. Fox The French are going to get the order. Like have said for the past 5 years, Rafale with Reliance in play is a guaranteed 200+ for the IAF. Take a look at the way the IAF made the tender. Only the Rafale will get in.
Same is going to happen with the subs. The entire world can pitch, but with the collapse of ABG and the financial viability of Pipavav (both private shipyards), the scenario has changed. L&T is involved in the nuclear submarine project. They are not going to bid for this. Cochin Shipyard is building an aircraft carrier.
That leaves Mazagon Docks and Hindustan Shipyard. Mazagon docks builds the Kalvari class (IN version of the Scorpene). HSL handles the Kilo class. The Type 209 is also maintained from Mazagon. But, they are today churning out the Scorpenes. MDL will be asked to churn out more of the Scorpenes. France will be asked to work on 75i. Basically an improved Scorpene class.
Same is going to happen with the subs. The entire world can pitch, but with the collapse of ABG and the financial viability of Pipavav (both private shipyards), the scenario has changed. L&T is involved in the nuclear submarine project. They are not going to bid for this. Cochin Shipyard is building an aircraft carrier.
That leaves Mazagon Docks and Hindustan Shipyard. Mazagon docks builds the Kalvari class (IN version of the Scorpene). HSL handles the Kilo class. The Type 209 is also maintained from Mazagon. But, they are today churning out the Scorpenes. MDL will be asked to churn out more of the Scorpenes. France will be asked to work on 75i. Basically an improved Scorpene class.
Can't have a submarine explode if you don't have a submarine because you failed to issue a tender on time
Not sure that's really an improvement over your previous regime.
I would rather not have a submarine than explode one and kill 17 submariners!!!
Yeah, some delay in procurement is always better than killing our people. Makes sense??
Yes, everything was politically motivated and Antony was the most efficient defence minister we ever had!!