Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Wo
The other defense forum is buzzing with PAF getting 10 J15 and 4 J10CE?

Can some one elaborate the implication on balance of power if the news is true.
Wouldn't it be cheaper for them to buy second hand f16's rather than j10 considering the Pakistanis will not have any experience on them. And the Pakistanis also don't trust chini electronics themselves this might be another fantasy dream created by those peedf mullahs...
 
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Wo
Wouldn't it be cheaper for them to buy second hand f16's rather than j10 considering the Pakistanis will not have any experience on them. And the Pakistanis also don't trust chini electronics themselves this might be another fantasy dream created by those peedf mullahs...

For Second Hand F 16s , US approval is required

And these J 10s will be flown by Chinese pilots , taking off from PAF bases

Once a Conflict starts , it will very quickly turn into a Two Front Situation

The idea is to Hurt India -- TOGETHER
in the Shortest possible period of 5 to 7 days before US intervention
 
Weren't these already a part of original deal?
Strange ! (but a good news for SAFRAN)
India already purchased and request the integration on Rafale of SPICE bombs !

Maybe a stop gap solution waiting the effective integration of SPICE (the complete system, fillfulling all the indian spec is intended in 2022)
Spice is a dedicated solution combining EO/GPS guidance. Hammer should be a part of original deal I think for general purpose long range targetting.
 
Weren't these already a part of original deal?

Spice is a dedicated solution combining EO/GPS guidance. Hammer should be a part of original deal I think for general purpose long range targetting.
No.
The initial deal include SPICE israeli bombs and the Litening israeli tageting pod.
 
Do you prefer this one?

Rafale_super_load5b.jpg

All great pics, but these are just advertisements, not actual operational loadouts.

Not realistic.
su30mki-full-aa-loaad.jpg


Here's another that's actually ridiculous.
aim120_2.jpg


This is how a true loadout will look like.
8f37173c92fda431705ccbd72702a29b.jpg


It's mainly 'cause the more missiles you add onto the airframe, the less range you have. It's likely that you won't even have the range necessary for using up all those missiles. Then there's the question of performance as well.

At the very least, if you want a lot of missiles, then 10 missiles with 3 tanks is more realistic. Then it's even possible to carry dual racks on 2 points and carry 12 missiles. Those tanks are indispensible for the Rafale.

They make good pictures though.
 
Hows our SAAW comparing to this weapon?

SAAW is just one weapon type whereas the HAMMER is a family of 4 weapons, 125Kg, 250Kg, 500Kg and 1000Kg. SAAW is not as advanced yet, but it's getting there. It's in the same class as the 125Kg version. We have a bunch of other weapons called HSLD (250, 500Kg) and Garuthmaa/Garudaa (1000Kg) that can compete with the entire HAMMER line up.

Simply put, with a seeker and rocket motor, SAAW will become equivalent to the 125Kg HAMMER. Similarly, adding seekers on the HSLD and 1000Kg GB, we will get our own capability in the same class.

We had no actual plans of inducting the HAMMER because DRDO is working on equivalents which were to become available in a few years. buying the HAMMER now is going to be expensive, but we have no choice. We are still a long ways away from integrating our own weapons on the Rafale.
 
Weren't these already a part of original deal?

Spice is a dedicated solution combining EO/GPS guidance. Hammer should be a part of original deal I think for general purpose long range targetting.

Nope. No HAMMERS were purchased. We only opted for HSLD, SPICE and SAAW as part of ISE for precision weapons. HAMMER is freaking expensive.
 
Strange ! (but a good news for SAFRAN)
India already purchased and request the integration on Rafale of SPICE bombs !

Maybe a stop gap solution waiting the effective integration of SPICE (the complete system, fillfulling all the indian spec is intended in 2022)
Reason that I have noted is that India had already negotiated the procurement & delivery of HAMMER weapons long back(negotiations were reported in local media as far as back in 2017). Maybe deal signing happened recently at the time of jets delivery as per earlier negotiations, that's what I am able to make out of it.

Second point that I have noted is that Spice successful integration will take more time than what India expected till sometimes back, hence delivery being made from French armed forces inventory, that's another angle coming in. Can't confirm with accuracy though. Thank you.
 
Reason that I have noted is that India had already negotiated the procurement & delivery of HAMMER weapons long back(negotiations were reported in local media as far as back in 2017). Maybe deal signing happened recently at the time of jets delivery as per earlier negotiations, that's what I am able to make out of it.

Didn't happen. At the very least, Shiv Aroor would have reported it. He's pretty much the official Rafale journo for India.

Second point that I have noted is that Spice successful integration will take more time than what India expected till sometimes back, hence delivery being made from French armed forces inventory, that's another angle coming in. Can't confirm with accuracy though. Thank you.

All ISE components are to become available by September 2022 according to the contract. ISE which require significant hardware updates, including integration of new weapons and pods, are going to take quite some time. So even if the entire ISE program is rushed, it's not going to become available over the next 1 year at the very least.
 
IAF Rafales to get French ‘HAMMER’ missiles. What makes them deadly?
IAF is, reportedly, ordering AASM HAMMER weapons on an emergency basis

The Indian Air Force has already indicated it wants its new fleet of Rafale fighters from France to be ready for operations as soon as the jets arrive. Therefore, attention has turned to capabilities the new fighters will offer.

It had been reported earlier this month that France had begun shipping the Meteor long-range air-to-air missile and the Scalp stealth cruise missile to India to arm the Rafale.

On Thursday, news agency ANI reported the Indian Air Force is ordering another unique weapon from France. ANI reported that the Indian Air Force is ordering the AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire) HAMMER (Highly Agile Modular Munition Extended Range) air-to-ground missiles from France. The order is being processed on an emergency basis.

"The order for the HAMMER missiles is being processed and the French authorities have agreed to supply them to us at a short notice for our Rafale combat aircraft," ANI quoted government sources as saying. "In view of the urgent requirement for these missiles by the Air Force, the French authorities would be delivering the systems to India from the existing stock meant for some other customer," ANI added.

"The HAMMER would give India the capability to take out any bunkers or hardened shelters in any type of terrain including the mountainous locations such as Eastern Ladakh," ANI reported.

Like the Israeli-supplied SPICE smart bombs that the Indian Air Force used in the Balakot attack last year, the AASM HAMMER is actually an add-on kit to an existing 'gravity' bomb.

But unlike the SPICE, the AASM HAMMER is unique in the sense that it has features of both a missile and a glide bomb. Safran, the French company manufacturing the AASM HAMMER, claims it "adds a propulsion kit and a choice of guidance kits to standard bombs”.

The AASM HAMMER is a modular weapon, which can be equipped with a variety of guidance modes such as satellite guidance, infra-red seeker and laser. According to Safran, the AASM HAMMER can be fired at ranges of anywhere between 20km to 70km, enabling the launch aircraft to stay out of range of enemy air defences.

aasm.jpg

The AASM HAMMER kit can be fitted to bombs of different sizes: 125 kg, 250 kg, 500 kg and 1,000 kg, with the last type meant for 'bunker buster' missions. The fact that it is propelled allows the AASM HAMMER to be used at low altitudes or in hilly terrain, unlike normal bombs that are unpropelled.

A Rafale can carry up to six AASM HAMMER weapons of 250kg weight, which can hit six targets simultaneously.

The AASM first entered service in the French Air Force and Navy in 2008 and was used in Afghanistan that year. The French military highlighted its performance in missions over Libya and Mali in 2011. Qatar and Egypt, both of which use Rafale fighters, have ordered the AASM HAMMER.

A criticism of the AASM HAMMER has been the fact that the weapon was perceived to be very expensive; this had been attributed to the relatively low volume of manufacturing in France as compared to greater numbers of similar weapons built in the US.

French newspaper La Tribune reported in 2017 that Safran intended to reduce the cost of a single AAASM from 120,000 Euros to around 80,000 Euros a piece. In comparison, the US-built GBU-12 230kg bomb costs around 50,000 Euros a piece.

Safran had been offering the AASM HAMMER to India for several years. In April 2016, Safran announced a joint venture with OIS Advanced Technology to manufacture the guidance and glide kits for the AASM HAMMER in India. The JV was announced as being part of the 'Make in India' programme.
 
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SAAW is just one weapon type whereas the HAMMER is a family of 4 weapons, 125Kg, 250Kg, 500Kg and 1000Kg. SAAW is not as advanced yet, but it's getting there. It's in the same class as the 125Kg version. We have a bunch of other weapons called HSLD (250, 500Kg) and Garuthmaa/Garudaa (1000Kg) that can compete with the entire HAMMER line up.

Simply put, with a seeker and rocket motor, SAAW will become equivalent to the 125Kg HAMMER. Similarly, adding seekers on the HSLD and 1000Kg GB, we will get our own capability in the same class.

We had no actual plans of inducting the HAMMER because DRDO is working on equivalents which were to become available in a few years. buying the HAMMER now is going to be expensive, but we have no choice. We are still a long ways away from integrating our own weapons on the Rafale.

I think one of the best fuctionlities.... it can hit moving target from 60 km

1595513906278.png
 
80000 € for Hammer against 50000 € for GBU 12 but GBU 12 have only a guidance kit compare to a guidance and a propulsion kit for the Hammer.
Your figures suggest 1 Hammer of x configuration is available for less than 10 million Indian Rupees. Are your figures correct? For if they are , the Hammer is ridiculously cheap. 1 round of Excalibur shell , we've imported from the US costs more than 1 Hammer.
 
80000 € for Hammer against 50000 € for GBU 12 but GBU 12 have only a guidance kit compare to a guidance and a propulsion kit for the Hammer.

GBU-12 costs much lesser than $25000. Dunno where that journo got the cost from.

EDIT: Both seem to be fake figures.
 
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