Definitively : frame life = 9000 hours
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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Definitively : frame life = 9000 hours
It will be. But they have time to meet the obligations till the completion of the contract which happens to be 2022. If they fail, no more orders.
nothing till 2022, but after that, they maybe blacklisted due to the pressure Modi govt has faced on this deal. DA hated our most loved RM and they wanted him out. He did the deal and is no more amongst us. DA & Safran with active collusion of French govt are now trying to use this to fool GOI. It will backfire majorly. Parrikar may be dead, but I am alive.
I have read a news sometimes back that boeing got penalized by goi for not coping up with offset agreement, and still we are ordering from them.
Omg, you holding a key position in ministry i guess. If yeas ask them to increase our frigate & destroyer fleets pls, and pls pursue for a bomber development. @vstol Jockey
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Americans can get away with everything because the whole world wants to be Uncle Sam's slaves.
DA and Safran including French will be penalised strongly. They think that they can extract more money due to our present situation with China. They are in for a shock. Rafale will be a liability in any war with China. A white elephant. French always learn from reverses and not from friends. They will get a lesson after we sort out PLAAF using Russian missiles and aircraft. They are in for a kick which they will remember for their life. Russia is giving us top of the stuff which even PLAAAF does not have. With highly qualified pilots who defeated AIM-120-C7, we are well placed to dump Rafale forever. Overhyped product and good for nothing otherthan eleint.
The charlie whom they shot down that over hyped video in combat with F-22, should not have been a fighter pilot ever. Who reverses within the boresight of HUD? I will never do it.
A victory against an idiot does not make you a winner. Wait till you meet your real match in sky. All fighter pilots are not as stupid as that F-22 pilot. Maybe, he did that to know what Rafale can do and also equip his future generations to fight Rafale better. Have you ever heard of Noora Kushti?
I do not hold key position in Ministry but I can swing the thinking due to my political affiliations which are heard in topmost echelons.
A girl has been sent to 17 sqnAF which flies Rafale and that is being touted as somekind of outstanding achievment. But do you know that Girls superior to her have been posted to Su-30MKI squadrons!!. Rafale gets second best even in IAF. Flt. Lt. Avni Chaturvedi, the first ever, fully ops fighter pilot of IAF on Mig-21Bison and senior to this lady, has been earmarked for a much senior position.
Laugh at me France, DA and Safran. You cheated us.
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This is one of the reason why i want Uncle sam's f15 with us. They will keep the promises most of the time.
My main worry is, i am an impression that you want rafale over any other aircraft & if you are telling its a white elephant. Then we have made bad choice, a very bad choice. Hope we will correct that in mmrca2 with f15EX.
And lastly, you are ex IN guy, do you think that our planned numbers Visakhapatnam class Destroyers & Nilagiri class frigates are sufficient?
When designs like LCS are available, why we are not designing such vessels to replace our ancient corvettes like INS Vibhuthi?
In Nov 2016, I gave a pesentation to IN about my design of MSA. It was an SE design. They got shocked. I did the presentation in the room of ACNS (Air) R. Adm Pyanomootil who was my friend in Kochi way back in 1989. He is from 67th course and I am from 70th course of NDA. He is now FONA.
We discussed the RFI which IN was about to issue for Deck based multirole fighter. I was shocked to see that that the RFI was created to rule out every other competitor including Rafale-M by asking for a certified ROD of 7.2 m/s as certification limit of undercart. Only F-18 has it and all other deckborne fighters had lower than that. I challenged it. IN got into a serious problem. They amended every thing in RFI after my objections which are documented on another forum. This shit was laid down by someone whom I do not wish to talk about. LCA-N was overweight only because of the wrong info supplied by this senior man. he was working for others all thru.
Now we have R. Adm Ahuja, who was responsible for IAC-2 with Emalls, having joined Boeing as their representative. and he is now supporting boeing to ensure victory of F-18 as the next Dext based fighter. My very dear friend.
He knows Deck ops from STOBAR having been trained by Russians in certifying Mig-29K from Vikky. He did it and not Russians. He was the TP who did it.
Now he is with Boeing. The F414-epe with 116KN will go with full load from all our carriers. he told Boeing so. He was trained by USN on CAT launches and also ops from USN carriers. He is one of those rare TPs who has operated from SDTOBAR and also CATOBAR which Moully never did. WHAT a loss !!
DA/Safran and my friends from France, you have committed suicide. Even God can't help you now.
Say after me-Oh God, save us as we are your children. AND even God can't do any *censored* about you. YOU cheated. Now pay the price. CAG report is out in public domain. Even Modi can't do *censored* about it. He does not know how to defend himself now.
He knows much more than what you can attribute to him. He also knows who I am and what Can I do? We have met eachother in Delhi.
They are even worse. Look at what happened to S Korea and their F-35 deal. The Americans did not even give them what they signed for.
Forget the Koreans, Boeing promised a lot of tech for the C-17 deal. A trisonic wind tunnel and a high altitude test bed for engines. They backed out of both. We are building Apache fuselages instead.
Backing out of DRDO programs was a pretty big goof-up. Let's see how the French manage to save it.
I think MoD will give them a chance elsewhere though, to fulfill offsets.
When's the CAG report gonna be out?
I don't think it's that simple. DRDO is also yet to make a decision on what technologies they are yet to take from France out of all the options available. The Rafale offsets process is still not complete.
Also this won't affect Modi in any way. 'Cause far more deals under UPA are still around with unfulfilled offsets.
If you go through @vstol Jockey posts,you will find out that french guys has played something nasty, really nasty things during this LAC drama to make more money. I dont think the modi government will go easy with someone who back stab us. Its quite unfortunate if we are not getting another 36-44 Rafale, but again it's better not to with Rafale further if it became a white elephant .
Generally @Picdelamirand-oil used to rush this thread & mmrca thread whenever Rafale faces criticism or whenever someone else put more weightage on another platform. But now he became completely mute . I fear something irreversible has happened with further Rafale orders.
= French bashing.
Strange from your hands....
You suddenly become mad my dear friend...
I intervene when there are misunderstandings or misinformation concerning the Rafale, most often of a technical nature. But here it is only malevolence based on wind. I don't need to intervene - the facts will be strong enough to counter this.
There is a much more interresting discussion begining here: MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
They were not allowed to fund more than 50% of the offsets programs, meaning the Indian partner has to match the funding. DRDO didn't want to pay.
The babus at the ministry also shot down 52% of offsets program offers, so that slows down things considerably as replacement programs have to be devised and sent for evaluation.
Rafale vendors yet to confirm technology transfer under offsets: CAG
French aerospace major Dassault Aviation and European missile maker MBDA have till date “not confirmed” the transfer of technology for the indigenous development of engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), under the offset contract relating to the ₹60,000 crore deal for 36 Rafale fighter jets, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) said in a report tabled in Parliament on September 23.
The report on offset clauses in defence deals observed that in October 2019, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) informed that the vendor had not yet been able to confirm their capability for doing the requisite upgradation. “Thus, it is not clear if this technology transfer will take place, and there is need for MoD/DRDO to identify and acquire the right technologies in order to comply with the directions of Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) given in September 2016,” the report said on the offsets in the Rafale deal.
In September 2015, Dassault Aviation and MBDA initially proposed to discharge 30% of their offset obligation in the Rafale deal by offering high technology to the DRDO, and as per the contract, acquisition of technology by the DRDO is envisaged, subject to discussions between the vendor and the DRDO, the report said.
Six new technologies
In April 2016, the DRDO identified six new technologies to be obtained from the firms under the offset obligations, but the vendors “did not agree on transfer of five technologies as most of them were not within the vendor’s core competence”. The sixth proposal of the DRDO was to obtain technical assistance for the indigenous development of an engine (Kaveri) for the LCA, which also has not been confirmed so far.
“In many cases, it was found that the foreign vendors made various offset commitments to qualify for the main supply contract but later, were not earnest about fulfilling these commitments,” the CAG observed, giving the Rafale deal as example.
To develop the Indian defence industry and bring in high technologies, the offset policy for defence deals was adopted in 2005 for all defence capital imports above ₹300 crore under which the foreign vendor is required to invest at least 30% of the value of the contract in India.
The Rafale deal signed in September 2016 has a 50% offset clause to be discharged by the four French partners — Dassault Aviation, MBDA, Safran and Thales. Dassault Aviation has set up a joint venture with Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence — Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited — in Nagpur to manufacture components for the former’s civil jets. The MoD informed the CAG that the offset obligations of the vendor are to start from September 23, 2019 and the first annual commitment would have to be completed by September 23, 2020.
Auditing the offset policy in defence deals, the CAG said that from 2005 till March 2018, 46 offset contracts were signed with foreign vendors, valued at ₹66,427 crore, of which, by December 2018, ₹19,223 crore worth of offsets should have been discharged by the vendors. “However, the offsets claimed to have been discharged by them was only ₹11,396 crore, which was only 59% of the commitment,” the report said.
Further, only 48%, or ₹5,457 crore, of these offset claims submitted by the vendors were accepted by the Ministry. “The rest were largely rejected as they were not compliant to the contractual conditions and the Defence Procurement Procedure,” the CAG said.
The remaining offset commitments of about ₹55,000 crore would be due to be completed by 2024 but the rate at which the foreign vendors have been fulfilling their offset commitments was about ₹1,300 crore per year. “Given this situation, fulfilling the commitment of ₹55,000 crore by the vendors in the next six years remains a major challenge,” the federal auditor stated.
French aerospace major Dassault Aviation and European missile maker MBDA have till date “not confirmed” the transfer of technology for the indigenous development of engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), under the offset contract relating to the ₹60,000 crore deal for 36 Rafale fighter jets, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) said in a report tabled in Parliament on September 23.
The report on offset clauses in defence deals observed that in October 2019, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) informed that the vendor had not yet been able to confirm their capability for doing the requisite upgradation. “Thus, it is not clear if this technology transfer will take place, and there is need for MoD/DRDO to identify and acquire the right technologies in order to comply with the directions of Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) given in September 2016,” the report said on the offsets in the Rafale deal.
In September 2015, Dassault Aviation and MBDA initially proposed to discharge 30% of their offset obligation in the Rafale deal by offering high technology to the DRDO, and as per the contract, acquisition of technology by the DRDO is envisaged, subject to discussions between the vendor and the DRDO, the report said.
Six new technologies
In April 2016, the DRDO identified six new technologies to be obtained from the firms under the offset obligations, but the vendors “did not agree on transfer of five technologies as most of them were not within the vendor’s core competence”. The sixth proposal of the DRDO was to obtain technical assistance for the indigenous development of an engine (Kaveri) for the LCA, which also has not been confirmed so far.
“In many cases, it was found that the foreign vendors made various offset commitments to qualify for the main supply contract but later, were not earnest about fulfilling these commitments,” the CAG observed, giving the Rafale deal as example.
To develop the Indian defence industry and bring in high technologies, the offset policy for defence deals was adopted in 2005 for all defence capital imports above ₹300 crore under which the foreign vendor is required to invest at least 30% of the value of the contract in India.
The Rafale deal signed in September 2016 has a 50% offset clause to be discharged by the four French partners — Dassault Aviation, MBDA, Safran and Thales. Dassault Aviation has set up a joint venture with Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence — Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited — in Nagpur to manufacture components for the former’s civil jets. The MoD informed the CAG that the offset obligations of the vendor are to start from September 23, 2019 and the first annual commitment would have to be completed by September 23, 2020.
Auditing the offset policy in defence deals, the CAG said that from 2005 till March 2018, 46 offset contracts were signed with foreign vendors, valued at ₹66,427 crore, of which, by December 2018, ₹19,223 crore worth of offsets should have been discharged by the vendors. “However, the offsets claimed to have been discharged by them was only ₹11,396 crore, which was only 59% of the commitment,” the report said.
Further, only 48%, or ₹5,457 crore, of these offset claims submitted by the vendors were accepted by the Ministry. “The rest were largely rejected as they were not compliant to the contractual conditions and the Defence Procurement Procedure,” the CAG said.
The remaining offset commitments of about ₹55,000 crore would be due to be completed by 2024 but the rate at which the foreign vendors have been fulfilling their offset commitments was about ₹1,300 crore per year. “Given this situation, fulfilling the commitment of ₹55,000 crore by the vendors in the next six years remains a major challenge,” the federal auditor stated.