Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

[Picdelamirand-oil]

@Picdelamirand-oil what prompt you to put that emoji?
1) The allegation came first in french media,
Are you undermining your own media by using that emoji?
2) or do you think that we indians are brainless and will go for Rafale again even if that allegations are true?

The payment was not made to a middleman but to an Indian company :

Dassault had agreed to pay the amount to one of its sub-contractors in India, Defsys Solutions. Dassault said that money was used to pay for the manufacture of 50 large replica models of Rafale jets

And this company is on the list of offsets companies

In Defsys we execute Design and Manufacture of :

Integrated Electronic Systems, Electro-Optical Payloads, Thermal Imagers, Flight and Firing Simulators, Weapon Replicas, Electro-Mechanical systems, On-board electronic sub-systems, Automated Test Equipments (ATEs), RF & Microwave Sub-assemblies, Radar & Seeker Simulators, RF Test and Measurement systems. The Company also provides a range of support services such as maintenance and on-site upgradation of existing military systems.

Defsys Solutions is an ISO 9001:2008 certified company spread on five locations across India; two of them being the manufacturing units."

Press kits de Dassault Aviation

Des partenariats ont également été signés avec d’autres entreprises indiennes telles que BTSL, DEFSYS, Kinetic, Mahindra, Maini, SAMTEL,… Des négociations sont en cours avec une centaine d’autres partenaires potentiels.

Translation
Partnerships have also been signed with other Indian companies such as BTSL, DEFSYS, Kinetic, Mahindra, Maini, SAMTEL, etc. Negotiations are underway with around 100 other potential partners.

And last but not least:

The supposed intermediary is Sushen Gupta who is a friend of the famous Christian Michel, himself a friend of Robert Vadra, himself a brother-in-law of Raoul Gandhi.

Vadra was cashing in on behalf of BAE to sell Eurofighters. Raoul had even said that if he was elected he would cancel the Rafale contract and buy Eurofighters instead.

So to assume that this guy was working for Dassault is a bit bold.

 

[Hydra]

The payment was not made to a middleman but to an Indian company :

And this company is on the list of offsets companies

Press kits de Dassault Aviation

Translation
Partnerships have also been signed with other Indian companies such as BTSL, DEFSYS, Kinetic, Mahindra, Maini, SAMTEL, etc. Negotiations are underway with around 100 other potential partners.

And last but not least:

The supposed intermediary is Sushen Gupta who is a friend of the famous Christian Michel, himself a friend of Robert Vadra, himself a brother-in-law of Raoul Gandhi.

Vadra was cashing in on behalf of BAE to sell Eurofighters. Raoul had even said that if he was elected he would cancel the Rafale contract and buy Eurofighters instead.

So to assume that this guy was working for Dassault is a bit bold.

Now i will call this is an explanation, emoji are not.
And tell me handing over 1 million to manufacture look alike table top model is considered as ToT or as a part of offset obligations?

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Seriouly Now, do you know what is this:

​

It's on Indian Rafale only

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Now i will call this is an explanation, emoji are not.
And tell me handing over 1 million to manufacture look alike table top model is considered as ToT or as a part of offset obligations?

For me it's models to make gifts to generals, ministers etc...

It's a gift but at the same time an advertisement because if the model is pretty it will be put on the desk of the personality.
Instead of having 50 lines at €20,000 there is only one line for all the gifts, and on top of that they didn't manage to find 50 dignitaries so they only spent €587,000.

 

[vstol Jockey]

For me it's models to make gifts to generals, ministers etc...

It's a gift but at the same time an advertisement because if the model is pretty it will be put on the desk of the personality.
Instead of having 50 lines at €20,000 there is only one line for all the gifts, and on top of that they didn't manage to find 50 dignitaries so they only spent €587,000.

There is no need to explain anything about this payment. DA made this payment for scaled models of Rafale created by one of its partner firms in India and the money was paid for that reason. These models were later gifted to verious entities within India which Includes the house of IAF Chief and RM's Office. If you go past his house you can see one such Models on display outside his house. So the gifts here have not been given to any individual but they are more of a part of business promotion. Lastly the money has not been paid for any kind of counsultancy service as a bribe. Just because DA put it under gift heading in their account books does not make it a bribe. These models can be accounted for. The order was clearly for 50 such models but only 25 were produced and therefore only 50% payment was done against a total order value of One million Euros. Its clearly an attempt to sabotage further orders for rafale by those who are competing with DA to sell more fighters to IAF. It could be anyone from Russians to Eurofighter team to Americans or even Swedes.

 

[Herciv]

@Picdelamirand-oil what prompt you to put that emoji?
1) The allegation came first in french media,
Are you undermining your own media by using that emoji?
2) or do you think that we indians are brainless and will go for Rafale again even if that allegations are true?

This media is one of the worst possible in France. Not that what is can be true or not but that it is impossible to give any confidence when something is writen in.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Now i will call this is an explanation, emoji are not.

My emoji was not intended to be explanatory, it was just my reaction to see a fight between Dassault, Modi, Macron on the one hand and some scum on the other on such a weak basis.

 

[randomradio]

Seriouly Now, do you know what is this:

​

It's on Indian Rafale only

Please enlighten us mortals.

 

[Herciv]

Yes suspicious payments ??? What is suspicious in this model clearly visible in Front of the house of the IAF chief ? What is suspicious when the gifts have been clearly mentionned in a press brief 2 years ago ?

Rafale jet model installed outside IAF chief's house, bang opposite Congress HQ

The model was preceded by a likeness of the Su-30MKI. IAF sources said the Rafale replaced it at the Akbar Road property about a month ago.

theprint.in

IAF sources said the model was supplied by Dassault, as manufacturers did under any other contract. The first model of the Rafale was put up inside the Air Headquarters: A fully-loaded Rafale is the first thing one sees as they step through the gates of the heavily- guarded Air Headquarters.

“The second model has come up at the chief’s house,” one of the sources said.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Yes suspicious payments ??? What is suspicious in this model clearly visible in Front of the house of the IAF chief ? What is suspicious when the gifts have been clearly mentionned in a press brief 2 years ago ?

Rafale jet model installed outside IAF chief's house, bang opposite Congress HQ

The model was preceded by a likeness of the Su-30MKI. IAF sources said the Rafale replaced it at the Akbar Road property about a month ago.

theprint.in

IAF sources said the model was supplied by Dassault, as manufacturers did under any other contract. The first model of the Rafale was put up inside the Air Headquarters: A fully-loaded Rafale is the first thing one sees as they step through the gates of the heavily- guarded Air Headquarters.

“The second model has come up at the chief’s house,” one of the sources said.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Too much of ado about nothing. Let us not waste time on this stupid report from France and let French media deal with it. I am sure the other media houses in France will be able to show the truth. This media house which published this report seems to be equivalent of The Wire and The Print in India. Its a paid fake news by those who oppose sale of more Rafale to India.

 

[randomradio]

Haha. Middlemen in a GTG deal. Whatever next.

 

[lcafanboy]

Seriouly Now, do you know what is this:

​

It's on Indian Rafale only

Now please break the suspense and enlighten us ...

 

[vstol Jockey]

Now please break the suspense and enlighten us ...

Its probably the new low band jammer which was part of ISE.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Rafale deal faces new controversy over 'suspicious payments' to middleman arrested by ED

French media reports that country's corruption watchdog flagged payments made by Dassault Aviation to Defsys Solutions, company owned by Sushen Gupta who was arrested in VVIP chopper scam.

theprint.in

 

[randomradio]

Its probably the new low band jammer which was part of ISE.

I'm actually guessing it's a mid band jammer, because low band jammers require much larger antennas, which is typically provided only through pods.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Haha. Middlemen in a GTG deal. Whatever next.

Bro even though the report mentions a payout of just 587000 euros, Indian media is still reporting a bribe worth one million euro. Imagine how sold out our media is? They are not even quoting the correct value of the so called gifts. 50 models for one million euro at 20k euro per model and 25 models for 587k euro. Is there anything wrong in it? Nothing. When you go for bulk purchase you get a discount and the price is lower but if you reduce the order size, the price is adjusted to the revised order. In this case, since the order was reduced from 50 models to 25 models, the price was not exactly half at 500k euros of the original deal but a bit higher.
Anyone who knows about such deals will know that this is very common in business deals. I wish the nationalistic media of France fights it out against this stupid fake news.

Rafale deal faces new controversy over 'suspicious payments' to middleman arrested by ED

French media reports that country's corruption watchdog flagged payments made by Dassault Aviation to Defsys Solutions, company owned by Sushen Gupta who was arrested in VVIP chopper scam.

theprint.in

Please do not post such third rate stuff. You have a brain of your own. use it. I have myself seen a rafale model not only outside the house of COAS but also in the office of Late Parikkar.

I'm actually guessing it's a mid band jammer, because low band jammers require much larger antennas, which is typically provided only through pods.

well maybe its GAN based.

 

[vstol Jockey]

We also need to realise that DA sold Rafale to Egypt and Qatar and also have bid for Indonesian and other countries bid to acquire Rafele. They may not have gifted all 25 models to entities within India but also to overseas likely customers.
Normally, we have expenditure for such activities combined together under bussiness promotion as per GAAP. And this business promotion has sub heads like print media, Visual media, live shows and gifts to promote the product or the company. This so called investigative media of France has gone ballistic to call it bribes. I am very sure that some of the models created in India are now doing their duty in Egypt and Qatar as well.

 

[Hydra]

We also need to realise that DA sold Rafale to Egypt and Qatar and also have bid for Indonesian and other countries bid to acquire Rafele. They may not have gifted all 25 models to entities within India but also to overseas likely customers.
Normally, we have expenditure for such activities combined together under bussiness promotion as per GAAP. And this business promotion has sub heads like print media, Visual media, live shows and gifts to promote the product or the company. This so called investigative media of France has gone ballistic to call it bribes. I am very sure that some of the models created in India are now doing their duty in Egypt and Qatar as well.

Are we expecting any fresh orders for additional Rafales during upcoming french visit of PM Modi?
@Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio

 

[randomradio]

Bro even though the report mentions a payout of just 587000 euros, Indian media is still reporting a bribe worth one million euro. Imagine how sold out our media is? They are not even quoting the correct value of the so called gifts. 50 models for one million euro at 20k euro per model and 25 models for 587k euro. Is there anything wrong in it? Nothing. When you go for bulk purchase you get a discount and the price is lower but if you reduce the order size, the price is adjusted to the revised order. In this case, since the order was reduced from 50 models to 25 models, the price was not exactly half at 500k euros of the original deal but a bit higher.
Anyone who knows about such deals will know that this is very common in business deals. I wish the nationalistic media of France fights it out against this stupid fake news.

People click on the link and read it, that's all that matters to them, a controversy and ad revenue.