Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

STEPHEN COHEN said:
I have a feeling that we will buy just 36 or 54 more OFF the Shelf , SCRAP MRFA acquisition , AND
Go for SU 75

By the Way SUKHOI and MIG are becoming One Company

www.aerotime.aero

Sukhoi and MiG to be merged into one company under UAC

Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) is going to completely merge Sukhoi and MiG into one company
www.aerotime.aero www.aerotime.aero

Now Read this too

www.google.com

Russia, India to sign 10 bilateral agreements including semi-confidential ones, says Russian presidential aide | India News - Times of India

India News: MOSCOW (RUSSIA): Russia and India will sign 10 bilateral agreements in various areas including some semi-confidential ones following the talks between.
www.google.com www.google.com

What is the meaning of SEMI CONFIDENTIAL agreement
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While 36 or 54 Rafales may be possible and desirable, although I feel it's too late, the MRFA will happen.

The Su-75 is a pie in the sky, it doesn't exist beyond a static model. And it won't gain traction until the Russians themselves buy it first. We are not dumb enough to repeat FGFA. If we ever go for a new Russian jet, it's gonna be the Su-57 or better, but after it's inducted. Even the Su-57 today is still a pie in the sky. So any discussion regarding a next gen jet's gonna have to happen after MRFA and LCA Mk2 are done deals. Checkmate's main competitor in India is AMCA, not MRFA.

As for the agreements, it's not gonna be in defence alone. We need nuclear reactors oil, gas etc.
 
randomradio said:
While 36 or 54 Rafales may be possible and desirable, although I feel it's too late, the MRFA will happen.
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60.... 36 for IAF and 24 for Navy With Make in India, a production line in India for It's own market and a share of export. We need to win Finland and to make a Rafale land and take off on the Vikramaditya after the adjustment of the parameters on the Indian ski jump on the ground planned for early 2022. In the end, it is not very hard. ;) 🎖️
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
60.... 36 for IAF and 24 for Navy With Make in India, a production line in India for It's own market and a share of export. We need to win Finland and to make a Rafale land and take off on the Vikramaditya after the adjustment of the parameters on the Indian ski jump on the ground planned for early 2022. In the end, it is not very hard. ;) 🎖️
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You know very well the constraints on our carrier. If Dassault finds a solution that works, then the Rafale is the obvious choice. The alternative isn't the best option in terms of capabilities, although different story when it comes to interoperability with the USN. There are pros and cons to both, but it entirely depends on whether the Rafale is usable.

Finland isn't really necessary for an Indian production line. There are options in ASEAN, with Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
Finland is only necessary to prove to you that the Rafale is better than the F-35, It will save us a lot of controversy. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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That's not for the IAF though, that's only for the internet. The IAF may not care as much about it.

And what if the F-35 is chosen?

Picdelamirand-oil said:
I think that IN has already approved the solutions proposed by Dassault.
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If you are referring to that unnamed source claiming Dassault's bidding since they seem to have a solution to the problem, then that's not approval. That's only a hope. Especially since a single-vendor situation is not desirable. It's obvious the IN will require demonstration of the solution in a few months.
 
randomradio said:
If you are referring to that unnamed source claiming Dassault's bidding since they seem to have a solution to the problem, then that's not approval. That's only a hope. Especially since a single-vendor situation is not desirable. It's obvious the IN will require demonstration of the solution in a few months.
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Dassault is in discussion with IN, and in the course of the discussions he may have mentioned a "solution". If IN says it is interested and asks for the cost of the "solution" that is encouraging, isn't it?

After that there are other steps to get the solution accepted, but Dassault is confident in its ability to satisfy all the steps that may be asked of it.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
Dassault is in discussion with IN, and in the course of the discussions he may have mentioned a "solution". If IN says it is interested and asks for the cost of the "solution" that is encouraging, isn't it?
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Honestly, even I'm interested. Hell, even the Americans are interested. Also, the fact that the IN has very few choices. Things would have been slightly better if the F-35 was also invovled, as mentioned, the MoD cannot afford a single-vendor situation before the tender even begins.

Picdelamirand-oil said:
After that there are other steps to get the solution accepted, but Dassault is confident in its ability to satisfy all the steps that may be asked of it.
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The solutions I can think of--
Solution 1: We modify Rafale, you pay.
Solution 2: You modify both carriers, you pay.

Even if a solution is available, I think it's going to be difficult for Rafale to win. But the MoD gets to avoid a single-vendor situation.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
60.... 36 for IAF and 24 for Navy With Make in India, a production line in India for It's own market and a share of export. We need to win Finland and to make a Rafale land and take off on the Vikramaditya after the adjustment of the parameters on the Indian ski jump on the ground planned for early 2022. In the end, it is not very hard. ;) 🎖️
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But France had Asked for a Mimimum order of 100 For an
Assembly Line in INDIA.

For just 60 planes ,is it economical to open a new assembly line , that too in a Foreign Country

And Most importantly , please drop
That Anil Ambani from any future plans

He is bankrupt , a Crook who has cheated many lenders and creditors

If Anil Ambani is involved in Rafale assembly , it will Again cause a Huge
S**T STORM in India and if there is a change in Govt after May 2024
Everything will get stopped and delayed
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
But France had Asked for a Mimimum order of 100 For an
Assembly Line in INDIA.

For just 60 planes ,is it economical to open a new assembly line , that too in a Foreign Country
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100 jets with 70% ToT. Less than 100 jets with comparatively less ToT. Some things can be manufactured in India at lower costs than in France. For example, the entire airframe can be produced in India. The ToT for the airframe would make around 30%. Another 10-20% can come in for the engine and electronics. So around 40-50% ToT for 60 jets, with final assembly in India. Add another 36 jets to the order and they can achieve 70% ToT for 96 jets total.

STEPHEN COHEN said:
And Most importantly , please drop
That Anil Ambani from any future plans

He is bankrupt , a Crook who has cheated many lenders and creditors

If Anil Ambani is involved in Rafale assembly , it will Again cause a Huge
S**T STORM in India and if there is a change in Govt after May 2024
Everything will get stopped and delayed
Click to expand...

SP will be chosen in a new process. Ambani will have to compete.
 
randomradio said:
100 jets with 70% ToT. Less than 100 jets with comparatively less ToT. Some things can be manufactured in India at lower costs than in France. For example, the entire airframe can be produced in India. The ToT for the airframe would make around 30%. Another 10-20% can come in for the engine and electronics. So around 40-50% ToT for 60 jets, with final assembly in India. Add another 36 jets to the order and they can achieve 70% ToT for 96 jets total.



SP will be chosen in a new process. Ambani will have to compete.
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I was thinking ,that May be
The new Russian KHIBINY Jammers have made Su 30 much more capable in Breaching Enemy Air Space OR the Israeli SCORPIUS which has been demonstrated to the IAF is available for sale

Because Nothing else explains , the Absolute Dis interest and Lack of Urgency , shown by the IAF , in securing a 2 nd lot of 36 Rafales

Given that the 2 Front situation is getting more dangerous every day

In 2011 , When PAF was inducting F 16 Block 52 , IAF wrote a Letter to PM


www.indiatoday.in

IAF losing edge over PAF

The government has been warned that with the Indian Air Force edge slipping fast, the assertiveness of Pakistan Air Force is likely to increase.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in
As far as Anil Ambani is concerned
That MOFO has Ruined the Balance Sheets of many Banks and Financial Institutions

He is an absolute disaster

Whatever he TOUCHES ,goes to Ruin
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
I was thinking ,that May be
The new Russian KHIBINY Jammers have made Su 30 much more capable in Breaching Enemy Air Space OR the Israeli SCORPIUS which has been demonstrated to the IAF is available for sale

Because Nothing else explains , the Absolute Dis interest and Lack of Urgency , shown by the IAF , in securing a 2 nd lot of 36 Rafales

Given that the 2 Front situation is getting more dangerous every day
Click to expand...

We have our own EW suite for the MKI. Whatever has been claimed for Scorpius, the SPECTRA has more or less been doing for over 15 years. We have also developed an airborne jammer capable of doing the same. EW is one area where we are approaching or have achieved full Indianisation. Anyway here's no harm in adding more capability through pods.

The IAF probably believes adding more Rafales without local production will be wasteful. They are also likely waiting for the F4.2 version, which is still 3 years away from finishing development.

The S-400 and MRSAM will contribute a lot to protect our skies at this time.

STEPHEN COHEN said:
In 2011 , When PAF was inducting F 16 Block 52 , IAF wrote a Letter to PM
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They have stagnated since then.
 
randomradio said:
And what if the F-35 is chosen?
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I come back to this question because it made me think:
My biggest fear is if the Finns don't know how to use the Rafale's characteristics to optimise the results of the game. If you use the Rafale as an F-16, the results won't be much different from those of an F-16: you have to adapt the tactics to take advantage of the Rafale's characteristics to make the results take off.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
I come back to this question because it made me think:
My biggest fear is if the Finns don't know how to use the Rafale's characteristics to optimise the results of the game. If you use the Rafale as an F-16, the results won't be much different from those of an F-16: you have to adapt the tactics to take advantage of the Rafale's characteristics to make the results take off.
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That's exactly what I mean when I say all these countries, Switzerland, Finland and Canada, are using the F/A-18 as the benchmark. It means the air forces don't know anything better than the Hornet and they are going to compare all capabilities of the new jets with the Hornets, and this will naturally include tactics.

The problem is when they learn there are faults in their evaluations as the program progresses, it will be too late to change it. IAF learnt the same with MMRCA, so they are making the necessary changes in MRFA.

If the Rafale uses unorthodox tactics that other air forces are not aware of, then the AAE should demonstrate the Rafale's capabilities to potential customers through exercises before ASRs are created.
 
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