Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
- Thread starter Herciv
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The Russians denied it for Brahmos-1, so they are bound to do that for the entire Brahmos family. They gave the excuse that it's a JV and they need to participate in the production, but in reality they don't want to give us the tech.
Hopefully this attitude will change given their circumstances.
When the war began and they got hit with sanctions, I had pointed out that this is our opportunity to get as much tech from them as possible, mainly materials tech which takes 40+ years to develop. So all kinds of engines come under that, including rocket motors. Even advanced materials for high-speed missiles, space shuttles etc. So let's hope the govt leverages this small window of opportunity we have. The Russians have the best material tech in the world when it comes to space.
A full generation ahead, admitted by NASA themselves.
A type of rocket engine the Americans had deemed impossible was in use in Russia since the 80s. After the Soviet Union fell, the Americans started using it for their Atlas rocket. The RD-170.
Even the levels of automation they had achieved was incredible. For example, the Americans believed it was not possible to make the Space Shuttle automated, but the Buran was. The Mig-29 was supposed to be a UCAV, they got the navigation and flying bit right, but they couldn't get a few other aspects right, like fire control and dog fighting, so they had to use a pilot.
The American hypersonic capabilities were developed from what they bought from Russia in the 90s. Even the F-35B's VTOL capability was initially developed out of what LM bought from Russia. Google Yak 141.
So they do have some feathers in their cap. So they are top dogs when it comes to hypersonics. Which is why they have all that tech, which the Americans do not. For example, the Russian version of the hypersonic Brahmos has been operational since 2017. Then there's the Avangard and the Kinzhal. Zircon and Kinzhal are combat tested as well, whereas the Americans are still struggling with the LRHW.
Yeas, thats why we should always integrate few western aam, pgm with LCA, AMCA, TEDBF or any other future platforms , even after achieving self reliance in those arena. When u have giant next to u by waiting you to rip apart, the strategy of synergy with west will be more handy than having self reliance.
SAAW is tested from dual launch er pylon of Rafale in India n fighters.
Perhaps bits and pieces of work is already done.
Our IAF think tank made a wise decision with this action. Because of this MOU, we are no longer worried about the clause that may allow "Germany" or the US to impose a ban on supplying A2A or A2G missiles in the event of a war. The IN Deck-based fighter acquisition should go with the same kind of MOU.
Yeah Dr Rane did say its still in drawing board, they expect to test from 2024 , production hit from 2025 in Lukhnow facilities. Per JV we are committed to buy stuff from Rus, so indigenisation scale won't be upped for it, at least for the missile components part. The sub systems like the TEL, launcher etc are 100% made here.
My guess is rafale will get integration as well?
At this time, the highest amount of indigenisation Brahmos-1 can achieve is 85%. It's pretty good.
Yeah its a good mark, what I mean is that by contractual terms we are bound to buy the ramjet & critical part from Rus, ie even if we can do better it won't be changed & will keep on buying from there.
Just hoping we got enough knowledge gained to start & improve our own ramjet scramjet improvement projects. SFDR still jv with rus, and some Project D with MAK Vympel (possibly early warning related).
The star missile is the product of the indigenous liquid ramjet after working with Brahmos. We are aware of the technology, but we have our contractual obligations. This is part of our long-term plans and collaboration with Russia.
The LRLACM will use our own ramjet. Apart from the Brahmos 2's Russian scramjet, we have our own plans for another CM that uses scramjet. We have multiple programs planned, both under ISRO and DRDO.
The fact that GMTI/GMTT were included in the India-specific Enhancements package indicates that their absence on French/other export Rafales is more a result of a lack of requirement/financial issue rather than a technical one.
Same goes for stuff like HMDS, IRST etc. which the French either don't use or don't use anymore but were included for IAF.
Rafale still remains the only Eurocanard with an operational AESA. Plus, it's unclear if American export radars will include stuff like full NCTR support as was enabled for IAF Rafales.
And GMTI was on Mirage 2000 RDY for 30 years !
It is a technical one, The french simply don't have it yet. Block F4.1 is the goal. I'm not even certain that the GMTI is installed on the indian version yet. It may be on a todo list still. I was referring to the French model. I know India has spent $2 billion or $60 million each on mostly Israeli upgrades. Giving a flyaway price of $160m. Whether it is worth that much (about twice as much) compared to the other 4.5gen, including the Super Hornet block lll, isn't for me to say.
