As many more customers take advandtages of SPECTRA we can learn some sweeties like the Greeks rafales totally disrupting the turquish F-16 using a false signature.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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I hope I don't upset your fanboy dream. I read it as the turks detected a radar they were unfamiliar with. (was it confirmed by the turks?) That will now be in their mission library. let's hope the greeks had it in training mode. It is stupid to lift your skirt and show them what you have. In simple air patrol.
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We are confident that even if the Russians knew the SPECTRA's warfare modes, they would not be able to counter them because these modes are designed to hide the presence of the Rafale and therefore the enemies do not even realize that they have something to do before being destroyed.
I know you can't help lying. It's your lack of character. Would you like the story again?
Whatever mode they used, the Turks now have it in their mission library. As i said, I hope they were in training mode.
Greece radar locks Turkish F-16 jets during NATO mission
Ankara conveys harassment to NATO authorities and summons Greek military attache, sources say.
www.trtworld.com
As having already a big guy like the ASMP-A the ASN4G will probably need a bigger power from the M-88.
The Rafale F5 will be a "very different aircraft", according to the Air Force Chief of Staff
BY LAURENT LAGNEAU - 5 MARCH 2023
www.opex360.com
Given the delay in the SCAF [Future Air Combat System] programme and the hazards it is likely to face between now and its entry into service [by 2040, if we are very optimistic], France will have to develop a new standard for the Rafale in order to guarantee the continuity of the airborne component of its nuclear deterrent, which will be based on the ASN4G hypersonic superstar missile over the next decade.
The ASN4G will be "integrated on the NGF [new generation SCAF fighter aircraft] ten to fifteen years after it enters operational service under the F5 standard of the Rafale, which obliges us to show a certain requirement in terms of ambition for this aircraft, so that its penetration capability remains credible, at least until 2060", as Emmanuel Chiva, the Délégué général pour l'armement [DGA] recently explained.
Indeed, by 2035, and as General Laurent Rataud, Deputy Chief of Staff for Plans and Programmes [SCPP] of the Air Force and Space Staff, explained in a parliamentary report published in 2021, the Rafale "will have to face the most powerful ground-air defence systems [... ] and evolve in extremely scrambled environments, which will mean equipping it with electronic warfare and navigational warfare capabilities, as well as possibly powerful means of suppressing enemy air defences".
In the short term, the AAE and the Aéronautique Navale will have Rafale F4s, this standard constituting the "first generation of connectivity". And the Rafale F5 will represent the second generation.
"Concerning the evolution of the Rafale standards, [...] it enables the development of connectivity, i.e. the exchange of data between aircraft - fighters, but also escort aircraft. The F4 standard will constitute the first generation of connectivity and the F5 will give rise to the second generation, which will ensure more secure connectivity," explained General Stéphane Mille, the Chief of Staff of the AAE, during a recent parliamentary hearing dedicated to the nuclear deterrent.
However, this will require major modifications to the Rafale. "When the F5 standard comes out, the aircraft will be very different," the Chief of Defence Staff said. "The radar, electronic countermeasures and the computer needed for connectivity will have been modified. However, the computing capacity to process hundreds of thousands of pieces of information requires wiring that the Rafale as we know it today is not capable of supporting," he added.
So, he continued, "several standards will coexist, and that will not be a problem" because "the complementarity of the means makes us strong, each aircraft having its advantages".
Moreover, the ASN4G should be much larger than the current ASMP-A [Air-Sol Moyenne Portée / Amélioré] used by the Rafale B of the Strategic Air Forces [FAS] and the Rafale M of the Nuclear Air Force [FANu]. It is "a big missile", underlined General Mille. It remains to be seen what consequences this will have on the F5 standard of the Rafale... which will be, explained General Frédéric Parisot, the AAE's second-in-command, "equipped with an impressive number of capabilities, some of which we have not yet imagined.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
The Rafale F5 will be a "very different aircraft", according to the Air Force Chief of Staff
BY LAURENT LAGNEAU - 5 MARCH 2023
Le Rafale F5 sera un "avion très différent", selon le chef d'état-major de l'armée de l'Air et de l'Espace - Zone Militaire
Étant donné le retard pris dans le programme SCAF et les aléas qu'il est susceptible de connaître d'ici sa mise en service , la France devra developper un
www.opex360.com
Given the delay in the SCAF [Future Air Combat System] programme and the hazards it is likely to face between now and its entry into service [by 2040, if we are very optimistic], France will have to develop a new standard for the Rafale in order to guarantee the continuity of the airborne component of its nuclear deterrent, which will be based on the ASN4G hypersonic superstar missile over the next decade.
The ASN4G will be "integrated on the NGF [new generation SCAF fighter aircraft] ten to fifteen years after it enters operational service under the F5 standard of the Rafale, which obliges us to show a certain requirement in terms of ambition for this aircraft, so that its penetration capability remains credible, at least until 2060", as Emmanuel Chiva, the Délégué général pour l'armement [DGA] recently explained.
Indeed, by 2035, and as General Laurent Rataud, Deputy Chief of Staff for Plans and Programmes [SCPP] of the Air Force and Space Staff, explained in a parliamentary report published in 2021, the Rafale "will have to face the most powerful ground-air defence systems [... ] and evolve in extremely scrambled environments, which will mean equipping it with electronic warfare and navigational warfare capabilities, as well as possibly powerful means of suppressing enemy air defences".
In the short term, the AAE and the Aéronautique Navale will have Rafale F4s, this standard constituting the "first generation of connectivity". And the Rafale F5 will represent the second generation.
"Concerning the evolution of the Rafale standards, [...] it enables the development of connectivity, i.e. the exchange of data between aircraft - fighters, but also escort aircraft. The F4 standard will constitute the first generation of connectivity and the F5 will give rise to the second generation, which will ensure more secure connectivity," explained General Stéphane Mille, the Chief of Staff of the AAE, during a recent parliamentary hearing dedicated to the nuclear deterrent.
However, this will require major modifications to the Rafale. "When the F5 standard comes out, the aircraft will be very different," the Chief of Defence Staff said. "The radar, electronic countermeasures and the computer needed for connectivity will have been modified. However, the computing capacity to process hundreds of thousands of pieces of information requires wiring that the Rafale as we know it today is not capable of supporting," he added.
So, he continued, "several standards will coexist, and that will not be a problem" because "the complementarity of the means makes us strong, each aircraft having its advantages".
Moreover, the ASN4G should be much larger than the current ASMP-A [Air-Sol Moyenne Portée / Amélioré] used by the Rafale B of the Strategic Air Forces [FAS] and the Rafale M of the Nuclear Air Force [FANu]. It is "a big missile", underlined General Mille. It remains to be seen what consequences this will have on the F5 standard of the Rafale... which will be, explained General Frédéric Parisot, the AAE's second-in-command, "equipped with an impressive number of capabilities, some of which we have not yet imagined.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
@randomradio
Lets continue our Rafale vs J-20, IRST vs VLO debate in this thread as it's more befitting here.
You said that IRST is not reliable against advance fighters(say VLO/J-20), if they can use their radar against Rafale. But Rafale is designed very smartly by the French. If you try to use your radar(even in LPI mode), SPECTRA will detect your emissions before the enemy's AESA paints Rafale.
From that point, Rafale may turn back and go home or try to stay in fight by spoofing the hostile RF emitter. The lead Rafale may use itself as bait while sending other fighters towards the target. Now here is where OSF comes into its own. With OSF, Rafale will detect/track/ID and shoot Mica-IR fully passively and swat your VLO.
Of course, if the enemy has modern IRST on its planes, then that complicates the matter. But still, SPECTRA has the power to put Rafale close and give it a fighting chance.
Lets continue our Rafale vs J-20, IRST vs VLO debate in this thread as it's more befitting here.
You said that IRST is not reliable against advance fighters(say VLO/J-20), if they can use their radar against Rafale. But Rafale is designed very smartly by the French. If you try to use your radar(even in LPI mode), SPECTRA will detect your emissions before the enemy's AESA paints Rafale.
From that point, Rafale may turn back and go home or try to stay in fight by spoofing the hostile RF emitter. The lead Rafale may use itself as bait while sending other fighters towards the target. Now here is where OSF comes into its own. With OSF, Rafale will detect/track/ID and shoot Mica-IR fully passively and swat your VLO.
Of course, if the enemy has modern IRST on its planes, then that complicates the matter. But still, SPECTRA has the power to put Rafale close and give it a fighting chance.
Greece revealed the range of Meteor BVRAAM for its Rafale fleet
Ouch !! Evidently they haven't heard of the superlative earth shattering performance of the AIM-120 D , sweetie , in spite of being a member of NATO. To add insult to injury they're praising le Francais . You ought to go to the comments section of this article & give them a piece of your autistic mind .
Ja , Sweetie ? @Innominate
Replying in this thread as the topic here is more relevant.
OSF has a built in TV channel. It does have CCD camera as you claimed but TV channel is also there. So both of us are correct here
Take a look at the "official" pic:
And the official data:
Source of image and data: RAFALE : L'Optronique Secteur Frontal - RAFALE : The omnirole fighter
So as we can see OSF has a separate TV channel plus IR channel( valid in the Indian version) . The IR sensor works in mid(3 to 5 microns) and long IR(8 to 12 microns) wavelengths.
SPECTRA can silently listen to J-20's radar, data-link etc. to cue OSF to that part of the sky. Also a group of Rafale using only OSF may triangulate and try to find out J-20. It's definitely difficult, but defeating VLO using 4th gen jets(no matter how advance) is always going to be difficult. VLO would always put any 4th/4.5/4.75 gen in a defensive position.
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Very likely to be fake. Had Egypt received Su-35s, we would have seen pictures and a party.
As long as the J-20 is VLO, even with ACT, the Rafale will be detected on radar first. And IRST detection ranges are quite low already.
Replying in this thread as the topic here is more relevant.
OSF has a built in TV channel. It does have CCD camera as you claimed but TV channel is also there. So both of us are correct here
Take a look at the "official" pic:
View attachment 26841
And the official data:
View attachment 26842
Source of image and data: RAFALE : L'Optronique Secteur Frontal - RAFALE : The omnirole fighter
So as we can see OSF has a separate TV channel plus IR channel( valid in the Indian version) . The IR sensor works in mid(3 to 5 microns) and long IR(8 to 12 microns) wavelengths.
SPECTRA can silently listen to J-20's radar, data-link etc. to cue OSF to that part of the sky. Also a group of Rafale using only OSF may triangulate and try to find out J-20. It's definitely difficult, but defeating VLO using 4th gen jets(no matter how advance) is always going to be difficult. VLO would always put any 4th/4.5/4.75 gen in a defensive position.
Thermal is IRST.
CCD is TV, not thermal.
French Rafales only have CCD, ie, TV. Indian Rafales have both, 'cause apparently we are fine with older hardware, our environment is different.
Unless the Rafale or any other aircraft can detect the J-20 at a range equal to or better than the J-20 can detect the Rafale, the J-20 has the advantage. While shaping-based stealth will eventually be beaten, it won't happen within the timeframe we are actually expecting to fight a war.
All this talk about Rafale cueing to the J-20's radar doesn't take into account there are passive J-20s around too. The J-20 with its bigger radar will see more. And if the Rafale has inferior antenna hardware compared to the J-20, like GaAs vs GaN, then Rafale's EW will be extremely limited due to its limited bandwidth. For ACT to work, you need equal or superior hardware.
Rafale can always carry better avionics, but right now, the Rafale's avionics are a decade behind the times, at least if we assume the J-20 is carrying all GaN hardware, which is very likely considering the possibility that even India will get all GaN hardware for radar and EW suite within the next few years. If the J-20 has all GaN, then the Rafale is just another older gen aircraft to it.
Remember, we are talking about going to war over the next few years. Even the MKI MLU may not exist within that timeframe. Only old MKI and 36 Rafale F3Rs on our side. At least 300-400 J-20s on theirs, perhaps with supercruise and high TWR. Our MKIs are most definitely useless within that timeframe. So only 36 Rafales.
Yes, but our Rafale-I has IRST, so that's what matters in our context.
In modern warfare if you emit you die. Rafale is designed around this philosophy.
ACT might not work against J-20. I've already said that before. Rafale's SPECTRA currently uses GaAs. You're correct that GaN does have advantage of working on multiple bandwidths at once. But despite that Rafale's SPECTRA can decipher signals from 4GHz to 40GHz. Indian Rafale apparently also have "low band jammers", so Indian Rafale's SPECTRA may work from 1GHz to 40GHz.
I think SPECTRA will definitely intercept J-20s emission. After that it's a game of hide and seek. Lets see who plays it better.
Yes, likely that J-20 is carrying GaN based avionics.
MKI is already getting Dhruti now(1-18GHz), that itself should allow it to passively detect and target hostile RF emitters completely passively.
By the end of next year, another advance digital-RWR that works in ultra wide bandwidth(from 1 GHz to 40GHz) along with two GaN based ASPJ pods shall become operational. At least they should help it in terms of survivability. Even B-Net is implemented now. Yes, GaN radar and QWIP IRST are going to become operational from only 2026 onwards.
Even 36 Rafales data linked with our IADS and other fighters should provide us good air-defence against Chinese J-20/J-16. So it is going to be Rafale+MKI(partially upgraded)+ S-400+ MRSAM vs J-20 & J-16.
Now how are our chances?
Got a link to the pod that India is using? It would be interesting to see the specs. i think it's Israeli
The French TALIOS is a decent IRST. I hope you don't say the joke of a OSF
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Pod
Indian Rafale's OSF has in-built very long range IRST. That was part of India Specific Enhancements that we paid for.
We would use radar when needed. If you emit against an opponent which has digital RWR with interferometry ESM like Rafale and MKI(with DR-118), you're going to die.
Modern air warfare is much more complicated and net-centric than we may assume. Against peer enemy passive sensors like IRST/RWR rule over radar.
OSF has been a joke, according to French pilots. As was the Damocles pod. now they have a decent pod, the Talios. What pod is the Indian Rafale using?
Our Rafale's OSF is not legacy but very advance one(with dual band IRST integrated). Our Rafale F3R are already using IRST that was supposed to be on F4.1/.2 versions.
Pod? Not too sure, but for ground striking, we may use the Israeli Litening pod. Don't think we've procured Talios. Maybe @Picdelamirand-oil could confirm
You don't have the Talios, which is a good IRST sensor pod. I thought it was the litening pod. It is a good FLIR, but isn't IRST. You have the substandard OSF, enjoy.
What is your problem? Our OSF is not substandard???? It consists of a very long range dual band IRST that has above 100kms rangs head-on for subsonic targets. Legacy OSF doesn't even have IRST only TV channel.
Quit trolling mate!