Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Perhaps India will buy the Talios. We put our litening pods on our C-130, so they are still usable. You really don't expect the frogs to tell you how pathetic the scanning OSF is? The rafale even used the low output, short range IR sensor of the missiles, to try and add to the picture. I believed them when they said aerial, it isn't in this video?


Perhaps this one?
 
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Rajput Lion said:
In modern warfare if you emit you die. Rafale is designed around this philosophy.
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All 5th gen are designed that way.

Rajput Lion said:
I think SPECTRA will definitely intercept J-20s emission. After that it's a game of hide and seek. Lets see who plays it better.
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It doesn't matter. The emitting J-20 will be too far away. The passive-only J-20s are the real threat.

In a flight of 8 J-20s, if there are only 2 J-20s emitting, then how are you gonna find the remaining 6 using SPECTRA?

Rajput Lion said:
By the end of next year, another advance digital-RWR that works in ultra wide bandwidth(from 1 GHz to 40GHz) along with two GaN based ASPJ pods shall become operational. At least they should help it in terms of survivability. Even B-Net is implemented now. Yes, GaN radar and QWIP IRST are going to become operational from only 2026 onwards.
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All my talk about bandwidth is in reference to fractional bandwidth, not the types of antennas in an EW suite across a large frequency range.

Rajput Lion said:
Even 36 Rafales data linked with our IADS and other fighters should provide us good air-defence against Chinese J-20/J-16. So it is going to be Rafale+MKI(partially upgraded)+ S-400+ MRSAM vs J-20 & J-16.

Now how are our chances?
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It all depends on how we are going to find those passive J-20s at a decent enough range while being able to hide ourselves.
 
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randomradio said:
All 5th gen are designed that way.



It doesn't matter. The emitting J-20 will be too far away. The passive-only J-20s are the real threat.

In a flight of 8 J-20s, if there are only 2 J-20s emitting, then how are you gonna find the remaining 6 using SPECTRA?



All my talk about bandwidth is in reference to fractional bandwidth, not the types of antennas in an EW suite across a large frequency range.



It all depends on how we are going to find those passive J-20s at a decent enough range while being able to hide ourselves.
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Once Rafale intercept any hostile LPI signal from a Chinese source using SPECTRA, it'll need to assume that there are other passive fighters in air as well. Rafale also won't fly in close formation too.

Thanks to B-Net, our Rafale and Sukhoi can fly several kms apart and share live data. That along with all the ground/space based feed would ensure that situational awareness of our airborne fighters is top notch.

That combined effort along with passive sensors like IRST will defeat J-20 and J-16.
 
Rajput Lion said:
Legacy OSF doesn't even have IRST only TV channel.
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In fact there are now three configurations for the Rafale OSF. Historically, the first version had a TV channel and an IRST. But the IRST was not used much by the pilots because its search function duplicated that of the MICA missiles and its image quality was only slightly better for the interpretation and classification of targets as Friend or Foe, whereas the TV channel, which is in fact in the near infrared, was used mostly.
For the second version we stopped buying IR channels to wait for sufficient technological progress, and we improved the TV channel instead. At the same time, we launched a cooperation with India to develop an OSF with a new generation IRST which was delivered on their Rafale and on the Rafale F4.1.
As the OSFs are plug and play, any Rafale can be equipped with any of the three solutions and even mix the TV and IRST channels according to the needs of the mission. This means that aircraft that do not fly do not have the best configuration.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
In fact there are now three configurations for the Rafale OSF. Historically, the first version had a TV channel and an IRST. But the IRST was not used much by the pilots because its search function duplicated that of the MICA missiles and its image quality was only slightly better for the interpretation and classification of targets as Friend or Foe, whereas the TV channel, which is in fact in the near infrared, was used mostly.
For the second version we stopped buying IR channels to wait for sufficient technological progress, and we improved the TV channel instead. At the same time, we launched a cooperation with India to develop an OSF with a new generation IRST which was delivered on their Rafale and on the Rafale F4.1.
As the OSFs are plug and play, any Rafale can be equipped with any of the three solutions and even mix the TV and IRST channels according to the needs of the mission. This means that aircraft that do not fly do not have the best configuration.
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Thanks for the explanation(y). I also believed the TV channel of OSF to be near Infrared(had to be for night time imaging). Also I explained about the long range new gen IRST to @Optimist but he either fails to understand or just doesn't want to.

BTW, one more query, is the new IRST QWIP or HgCdTe?
 
F4.1 OSF has IRST..ok We will wait to see what the countries think of them. lets hope they aren't like the rubbish ones they had before. will bet that india hasn't received them yet. given F4.1 was just released.
It would also be nice to have a dassault link.
 
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Optimist said:
F4.1 OSF has IRST..ok We will wait to see what the countries think of them. lets hope they aren't like the rubbish ones they had before. will bet that india hasn't received them yet. given F4.1 was just released.
It would also be nice to have a dassault link.
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As ISE is implemented in our Rafale, this new gen IRST is going in all 36 Rafales(few may already have it) with other enhancements.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Thanks for the explanation(y). I also believed the TV channel of OSF to be near Infrared(had to be for night time imaging). Also I explained about the long range new gen IRST to @Optimist but he either fails to understand or just doesn't want to.

BTW, one more query, is the new IRST QWIP or HgCdTe?
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In 2013, Sofradir acquired the InSb, QWIP and InGaAs technologies from its shareholders Sagem and Thales, which, in addition to its flagship MCT technology, enables Sofradir to offer its customers the most suitable IR technology for an application. The Rafale's first IRST was capable of using two frequencies, and this was only possible with MCT technology.

But the DGA found that the performance was poor, I think for the MMRCA it was planned to develop with SAMTEL a new IRST using InGaAS and QWIP for better performance. I don't know if this is exactly the same project that provided an IRST for the Indian Rafale.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
But the DGA found that the performance was poor, I think for the MMRCA it was planned to develop with SAMTEL a new IRST using InGaAS and QWIP for better performance. I don't know if this is exactly the same project that provided an IRST for the Indian Rafale.
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Thank you for the explanation and acknowledging the other OSF was lacking. It should save a couple of pages :)
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
In 2013, Sofradir acquired the InSb, QWIP and InGaAs technologies from its shareholders Sagem and Thales, which, in addition to its flagship MCT technology, enables Sofradir to offer its customers the most suitable IR technology for an application. The Rafale's first IRST was capable of using two frequencies, and this was only possible with MCT technology.

But the DGA found that the performance was poor, I think for the MMRCA it was planned to develop with SAMTEL a new IRST using InGaAS and QWIP for better performance. I don't know if this is exactly the same project that provided an IRST for the Indian Rafale.
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Thanks for clarification(y). IAF wouldn't settle for anything less than what they wanted in MMRCA.

J-20 should feel the heat now when the balloon goes up:)
 
Optimist said:
Perhaps India will buy the Talios. We put our litening pods on our C-130, so they are still usable. You really don't expect the frogs to tell you how pathetic the scanning OSF is? The rafale even used the low output, short range IR sensor of the missiles, to try and add to the picture. I believed them when they said aerial, it isn't in this video?
Click to expand...
Another BS news ! just one more....
Some french jets used MICA IR sensor for 2 reasons :
1) When they are not ISF fitted (because France ordered less OS than Rafale, and because MICA IR is also fitted on Mirage 2000 .... ).
2) Used with OSF, it magnifies the range.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
This is an area where progress has been rapid, this weakness in performance is relative, it was a time when American aircraft had nothing comparable.
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It's just refreshing to see you state it as it is. The sky didn't fall and the birds are still chirping. I'll leave eurofighter and the US out of it.
 
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I mislead the forum. On further research, I found that the newer litening pod that India has. It has got search and track with GMTT. It appears similar to the TALIOS. I still reserve my judgment on the OSF. The new model may be worthwhile


 
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man they densely pack the pylons with weapons, ours leave wide open real estate between those. Look at that , if it were rail launch the plane itself would blow up. Meanwhile a ton of connectors & adapters for LRGB testing, 3-4 stages between the jet & the bomb.
 
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