Reliance Naval’s eligibility question holds up warship orders worth Rs 63,000 crore (Rs 630 billion)

[_Anonymous_]

Red Herring, dude are you not tired of embarrassing yourself?

This is to inform you that as on June 30, 2018, Shri Nikhil Gandhi, Shri Bhavesh Gandhi, SKIL Infrastructure Limited, SKIL Shipyard Holdings Private Limited and Grevek Investments and Finance Private Limited, ("Erstwhile Promoters} have ceased to hold any equity shareholding in the Company.

Further, as informed earlier, Shri Nikhil Gandhi and Shri Bhavesh Gandhi have already ceased to be Directors of the Company. Accordingly, the Erstwhile Promoters now do not have any representation on the Companys board.
Reliance Naval And Engineering Ltd - Equity Ownership Of Erstwhile Promoters In Reliance Naval And Engineering Limited

How much more BS do you want to peddle?

there is no Gandhis to kick out or to work with as you claimed earlier. There is no 25% stake of Gandhis as you claimed earlier, and Relaince doesn't own 36% of RNEL as you claimed either. Fact checking is easier than BS'ing, so might I suggest to cut it out,



Learn a bit and then post, what you are proposing is not how SEBI disclosures work. If your shares are pledged, doesn't mean you disappear from shareholding disclosures. As I said, you do not have a clue about what you are speaking of.
Now for "the Gandhis are still the owners of their shares.", read the highlighted part above, and read it a couple of times more so it sinks in.

Damn!! @randomradio

You're Windows 10 to PKS's Windows 7.A fact I've just noticed.

When will you cease imposing your wishlist on reality ? And then in order to accommodate your views in this reality, you obfuscate, brush under the carpet , deflect , indulge in subtefuge, etc.

The world doesn't function in the way we want it to, especially out here. RNaval is here to stay, much as I loathe that group. I'd have to learn living with this fact. You'd have to learn to live with the fact that for all the tall talk Anilbhai is giving, even if he's able to accomplish 25% of it in the next 2 decades, he'd have achieved a lot, considering his track record.

I'm betting Mukeshbhai would bail him out in the near to not so near future, though. After all blood's thicker than water.

 

[randomradio]

Red Herring, dude are you not tired of embarrassing yourself?

This is to inform you that as on June 30, 2018, Shri Nikhil Gandhi, Shri Bhavesh Gandhi, SKIL Infrastructure Limited, SKIL Shipyard Holdings Private Limited and Grevek Investments and Finance Private Limited, ("Erstwhile Promoters} have ceased to hold any equity shareholding in the Company.

Further, as informed earlier, Shri Nikhil Gandhi and Shri Bhavesh Gandhi have already ceased to be Directors of the Company. Accordingly, the Erstwhile Promoters now do not have any representation on the Companys board.
Reliance Naval And Engineering Ltd - Equity Ownership Of Erstwhile Promoters In Reliance Naval And Engineering Limited

How much more BS do you want to peddle?

there is no Gandhis to kick out or to work with as you claimed earlier. There is no 25% stake of Gandhis as you claimed earlier, and Relaince doesn't own 36% of RNEL as you claimed either. Fact checking is easier than BS'ing, so might I suggest to cut it out,

Most of this changed the last few months. The Gandhis were out of the board only in March and April this year. And they ceased to be "shareholders" by June. So what I am saying is what's happening. Reliance is attempting to edge out the original promoters and take over.

Learn a bit and then post, what you are proposing is not how SEBI disclosures work. If your shares are pledged, doesn't mean you disappear from shareholding disclosures. As I said, you do not have a clue about what you are speaking of.
Now for "the Gandhis are still the owners of their shares.", read the highlighted part above, and read it a couple of times more so it sinks in.

Is that why they are now fighting to take back ownership of the shares then? Their claim is they still own those shares since Reliance has taken over the responsibility of Pipavav's debt.

Only after the shares are put up for sale is when they lose their ownership completely. A lot of the shares pledged belong to the Gandhis, this fact doesn't change. What you are arguing about now is semantics. The Gandhis are still part of the game. So is Reliance. And Reliance is part of the big game as well. So your attempt to kick Reliance out of shipbuilding is pretty much chasing a fool's errand.

The point of this thread was about Reliance's future in defence. It's rock solid, the way I see it. RInfra has almost become debt free. So the LHD tender should continue, and if Reliance wins, they should be allowed to build the 2 ships. If they win this contract, I see them buying off all the shares and control most of the shipyard.

 

[Milspec]

Damn!! @randomradio

You're Windows 10 to PKS's Windows 7.A fact I've just noticed.

When will you cease imposing your wishlist on reality ? And then in order to accommodate your views in this reality, you obfuscate, brush under the carpet , deflect , indulge in subtefuge, etc.

The world doesn't function in the way we want it to, especially out here. RNaval is here to stay, much as I loathe that group. I'd have to learn living with this fact. You'd have to learn to live with the fact that for all the tall talk Anilbhai is giving, even if he's able to accomplish 25% of it in the next 2 decades, he'd have achieved a lot, considering his track record.

I'm betting Mukeshbhai would bail him out in the near to not so near future, though. After all blood's thicker than water.

Lets not forget, there might be some of that already, as for ages Nikhil Gandhi was alleged to be a frontman for Mukesh Ambani, out of 3 SEZ's he built guess who owns two of them now , Reliance Industrial infra owned by Mukesh Bhai. Gandhi's exit might have been a bone thrown to Anil by Mukesh, but now he's choking on the same.

 

[randomradio]

Damn!! @randomradio

You're Windows 10 to PKS's Windows 7.A fact I've just noticed.

When will you cease imposing your wishlist on reality ? And then in order to accommodate your views in this reality, you obfuscate, brush under the carpet , deflect , indulge in subtefuge, etc.

The world doesn't function in the way we want it to, especially out here. RNaval is here to stay, much as I loathe that group. I'd have to learn living with this fact. You'd have to learn to live with the fact that for all the tall talk Anilbhai is giving, even if he's able to accomplish 25% of it in the next 2 decades, he'd have achieved a lot, considering his track record.

I'm betting Mukeshbhai would bail him out in the near to not so near future, though. After all blood's thicker than water.

Anil is being given too much grief for little reason. Yeah, he's nowhere as good as his brother, but he's not bad either.

RCom was doomed to fail since the invention of 3G. The choice of CDMA was a bad decision.

All other companies of Anil's that have failed have their own contemporaries in India Inc.
India’s power sector suffered loss of Rs 2.9 lakh crore in 2013: World Bank

So all power companies have done badly in the last few years. Due to UPA's mismanagement, infrastructure projects took a hit as well. All private shipyards have failed. Only Reliance and L&T are still muddling along. Regardless RCapital and RInfra are still profitable.

All of Mukesh's success can be attributed to oil money. He's done a good job taking care of his golden hen. But I don't think RCom would have survived under anyone else either. So I don't know why he's being given so much grief.

 

[randomradio]

Lets not forget, there might be some of that already, as for ages Nikhil Gandhi was alleged to be a frontman for Mukesh Ambani, out of 3 SEZ's he built guess who owns two of them now , Reliance Industrial infra owned by Mukesh Bhai. Gandhi's exit might have been a bone thrown to Anil by Mukesh, but now he's choking on the same.

What's this SEZ story now?

 

[Milspec]

Most of this changed the last few months. The Gandhis were out of the board only in March and April this year. And they ceased to be "shareholders" by June. So what I am saying is what's happening. Reliance is attempting to edge out the original promoters and take over.

No they are not, they have not bought any additional stake, and their stake too is pledged.

Is that why they are now fighting to take back ownership of the shares then? Their claim is they still own those shares since Reliance has taken over the responsibility of Pipavav's debt.

Again, Gandhi's do not own any shares in Reliance Naval, you can see their disclosure.

Only after the shares are put up for sale is when they lose their ownership completely. A lot of the shares pledged belong to the Gandhis, this fact doesn't change. What you are arguing about now is semantics.

No, I am not; Gandhis do not own anything in Reliance, thats what I said at start, thats what I am saying now, you were weaving fairy tales of option 1 continuing with Gandhis, and option 2 kicking out gandhis.

The Gandhis are still part of the game. So is Reliance. And Reliance is part of the big game as well. So your attempt to kick Reliance out of shipbuilding is pretty much chasing a fool's errand.

Again Gandhis are not part of anything, disclosure is posted, read it a couple of times and let it sink in. for the rest look up what NCLT does.

The point of this thread was about Reliance's future in defence. It's rock solid, the way I see it.

I disagree, once a thief always a thief.

RInfra has almost become debt free.

More BS. R infra even after selling it's cash cow, mumbai power business still will hold more debt that 10 times the total Mkt Cap of RNEL. You do not know what zero debt is .

So the LHD tender should continue, and if Reliance wins, they should be allowed to build the 2 ships. If they win this contract, I see them buying off all the shares and control most of the shipyard.

Ok, so lets get this straight. Reliance controls entire RNEL, no one other than RNEL controls RNEL. It's not Gandhis, Its not Vistra, its not IL&FS and its not the IDBI. All of the controlling stake for RNEL is with RNEL.

Now lets address the rest of BS that you have been posting, that ADAG has enough money to clear all of the debt of RNEL, when shown the entire cash reserve of the group vs it's debt you cowered away as usual, and now that you are singing this new sonnet of if reliance wins LHD they will buy most of the shares, first they will have to start with the $hit thay have pledged, next to make those LHD's they will need money, they cant sell any more shares as it's 100% pledged, so the only option is debt, and given they have defaulted thier existing debt they won't be able to service new debt, and the company will end up in NCLT... It will be astoundingly stupid to give an insolvent company a strategic project just because he is PM's crony.

 

[_Anonymous_]

What's this SEZ story now?

Here's a primer -
Shades of grey in Pipavav Defence & Everonn Education's Nikhil Gandhi's rags-to-riches story


Is this man for real?- Business News

 

[randomradio]

No they are not, they have not bought any additional stake, and their stake too is pledged.

Again, Gandhi's do not own any shares in Reliance Naval, you can see their disclosure.

No, I am not; Gandhis do not own anything in Reliance, thats what I said at start, thats what I am saying now, you were weaving fairy tales of option 1 continuing with Gandhis, and option 2 kicking out gandhis.

Again Gandhis are not part of anything, disclosure is posted, read it a couple of times and let it sink in. for the rest look up what NCLT does.

Let's see what the lenders do with Gandhis's shares then.

I disagree, once a thief always a thief.

If you are so sure of it, then Reliance won't survive in defence.

Now lets address the rest of BS that you have been posting, that ADAG has enough money to clear all of the debt of RNEL, when shown the entire cash reserve of the group vs it's debt you cowered away as usual, and now that you are singing this new sonnet of if reliance wins LHD they will buy most of the shares, first they will have to start with the $hit thay have pledged, next to make those LHD's they will need money, they cant sell any more shares as it's 100% pledged, so the only option is debt, and given they have defaulted thier existing debt they won't be able to service new debt, and the company will end up in NCLT... It will be astoundingly stupid to give an insolvent company a strategic project just because he is PM's crony.

Once the contract is signed, the MoD will release funds for construction of the carriers in the first month. The money flow comes in tranches, so RNEL does not need a lot of money to start the work. The instalments have been designed in such a way that the shipbuilders do not have to use their own money to buy materials for construction.

As I pointed out, with the sale of their Mumbai business to Adani, RInfra's debt load has come down to 7kCr. And their cash reserves are over 22KCr or 27KCr or something that you posted before. And RInfra can even go for more debt if necessary if they need working capital for the 2 LHDs, which they won't have to.

And what makes you think they are incapable of raising money when they are planning to invest billions into both aerospace and shipbuilding over the next 5 years? Once DRAL starts churning out Falcons, RInfra's market cap will increase. Even more so once the 2nd tranche of 36 Rafales are ordered. RInfra's shipbuilding programs can then ride on the momentum of DRAL alone. Not counting civilian infrastructure projects.

 

[randomradio]

Here's a primer -
Shades of grey in Pipavav Defence & Everonn Education's Nikhil Gandhi's rags-to-riches story


Is this man for real?- Business News

Pretty weird assertions there. Even if true, there seems to have been a fallout between the two parties considering both have sued each other. Gotta see how this goes.

 

[Milspec]

Once the contract is signed, the MoD will release funds for construction of the carriers in the first month. The money flow comes in tranches, so RNEL does not need a lot of money to start the work. The instalments have been designed in such a way that the shipbuilders do not have to use their own money to buy materials for construction.

Let correct you there, money is not given out before hitting the needed milestone. Here is a huge issue, Private Shipyards are not issued capital like DPSU's , they have to invoice to given deliverable, Unless Modi changes that too for reliance, there is going to be no capital released for private shipyards.

As I pointed out, with the sale of their Mumbai business to Adani, RInfra's debt load has come down to 7kCr. And their cash reserves are over 22KCr or 27KCr or something that you posted before.

When you sell a lucrative part of your business, guess what happens to cash reserves?

And RInfra can even go for more debt if necessary if they need working capital for the 2 LHDs, which they won't have to.

It can, if it wants to take Rinfra along with RNEL to NCLT.

And what makes you think they are incapable of raising money when they are planning to invest billions into both aerospace and shipbuilding over the next 5 years?

Raising money is not the issue, paying it back is.

Once DRAL starts churning out Falcons, RInfra's market cap will increase. Even more so once the 2nd tranche of 36 Rafales are ordered. RInfra's shipbuilding programs can then ride on the momentum of DRAL alone. Not counting civilian infrastructure projects.

The reality of ADAG should be quite clear to you by now. If not then great I am sure Reliance defence group will be the next MIC for India. cheers

 

[randomradio]

Let correct you there, money is not given out before hitting the needed milestone.

The first tranche is released within a month. A minimum of 15%. The second tranche is up to 50%. By the time the third tranche is released, it will have paid for the boat, and the last tranche is released after delivery, and is a small amount.

When you sell a lucrative part of your business, guess what happens to cash reserves?[

Let's see how much they have by next year. By then, most of the issues would have blown over.

Raising money is not the issue, paying it back is.

That's won't be a problem, the parent company is profitable.

The reality of ADAG should be quite clear to you by now. If not then great I am sure Reliance defence group will be the next MIC for India. cheers

It doesn't matter how corrupt businesses are in the civilian sector. But when it comes to MoD, these guys need to be really, really clean. You already see the kind of negative media publicity they are getting for Rafale. And DRAL is only getting about 3% of the offsets deal apparently. If Anil doesn't keep his nose clean when it comes to defence, he will be permanently booted out. That's the kind of risk they face. Most corrupt international deals have already been out of the picture since a long time. Even companies that were caught like Rafael have been keeping their noses clean.

Right now, the only corruption in defence is within DPSUs.

Reliance will only be a small part of the Indian MIC.

 

[Amal]

The way I see it, Pipavav's OPV contract started working out only after Reliance bought a stake.

I see two Panamax bulkers. I have no idea what you are trying to prove.

 

[randomradio]

I see two Panamax bulkers. I have no idea what you are trying to prove.

Just pointing out they have been building large carriers as well. It wasn't meant for you personally.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I see two Panamax bulkers. I have no idea what you are trying to prove.

So what? @randomradio is using those pics only for representative purposes. Until he's called out. In which case you can always be accused of misreading his intentions.

 

[randomradio]

So what? @randomradio is using those pics only for representative purposes. Until he's called out. In which case you can always be accused of misreading his intentions.

I always add stuff to a discussion without expecting a reply to it. The same with post 95.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Markss Infotech files insolvency petition against Reliance Naval

@randomradio ; @Milspec

 

[GuardianRED]

Reliance Naval Launches Indian Coast Guard Training Ship

October 24, 2018 – A state-of-the-art Training Ship of 3,000 tonnes displacement was launched today at the shipyard of Reliance Naval & Engineering, located at the Port of Pipavav, Gujarat. The training ship, the largest ship ever built for the Indian Coast Guard, was launched at the auspices of Smt Urmila Singh, wife of Sh Rajendra Singh, the Director General of the Indian Coast Guard. The ship was named by Smt. Urmila Singh as ICGS Varuna, at a ceremony attended by a large gathering of Coast Guard officers and sailors, local dignitaries and Government officials. As per defence traditions, the slokas of Atharva Vedas were invoked during the launch ceremony.
Reliance Naval has the largest shipbuilding facility in India, encompassing one of the largest dry docks of the world, as well as a latest modular fabrication and engineering facility. The shipyard has an installed throughput of 140,000 tons of steel, equivalent to an annual
revenue of a minimum Rs. 4,000 crore. The shipyard presently has a meagre order book of Rs 4,000 crore, which does not justify the huge capital investment in building this most modern shipyard.

The shipyard was referred to by the erstwhile Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, as a ‘National Asset’, because the shipyard is capable of building any size of vessels in the world, including the next 70,000 ton aircraft carrier for India. India has five PSU shipyards and two large shipyards in the private sector. The total order book of the PSU shipyards is presently Rs 200,000 crore, whereas their combined turnover is just about Rs 8,000 crore per annum. In comparison, the two private sector shipyards have an order book of only Rs 6,000 crore.
The Training Ship has the primary role to impart sea training to cadets, including an all-round exposure to the lives of Coast Guard officers. The vessel is 105 meters long, with a capacity of accommodating 242 personnel. The vessel is powered by twin diesel engines of 10,400 KW and can move at a speed of 20 knots. The vessel is also equipped with weapons systems and is capable of policing maritime zones of the country as well as for search and rescue missions. The vessel’s capability also includes operating a twin-engine helicopter for undertaking maritime reconnaissance.
The new launch is a synergy of the latest cutting-edge technology and 40 years of operational experience of the Indian Coast Guard, in terms of architecture, ergonomics, training requirements and maintenance envelopes. The vessel is a first-of-its-kind Next Generation
Training Ship for Trainee Officers, and has been entirely designed by the Design Bureau of Reliance Naval & Engineering. Confirmatory model tests for the design were performed at Vienna Test Basin, Austria and vetted by internationally acclaimed experts.
The vessel will join the Coast Guard fleet in May 2019 after extensive tests and trials.
Presently, Reliance Naval is constructing 20 ships of three categories for the defence services of the country—these are five Naval Offshore Patrol Vessels and 14 Fast Patrol vessels, apart from the Training Ship launched today. Of these, six vessels are expected to delivered in 2019.

https://seawaves.com/2018/10/24/reliance-naval-launches-indian-coast-guard-traning-ship/

 

[Ashutosh]

Is it? how about some examples.

Case : INSAS rifle, Metallurgy is so so bad, Q&A of production was pathetic is an understatement. Forces have such a Distrust over them that they just fail the weapons in impossible test. Have you seen RFIs issued by the Armed forces recently, especially on rifles? On some, there is no response because there is no such weapon on anyone's catalog, on the planet.

LCA/Arjun needed everything from Day one. Same army and Airforece broke their back "Correcting" T 90 and MKI respectively, HAL manufactures an MKI at Rs 50 Cr more price than a fully built in Russia Bird... I can go on and on and on...