RudraM Series Air-launched Missiles : Updates & Discussions

[randomradio]

Give me one example of a private company doing production without order.

Rudram-1's user trials in 2024 were from the first LSP batch manufactured by BDL. Adani was chosen for mass production. BDL will also mass produce the missile.

So the BDL factory is producing Rudram-1's as we speak, while Adani is building the factory and establishing long leads for it.

Weapon LSP process begins as soon as development trials are complete. This is followed by user trials. This means every time you hear user trials, it means LSP models are already in production.

Even Astra Mk2 is now in production.

Prelim trials using development models > LSP > User trials > SP. Sometimes we get more user trials in case of changes requested by the IAF using modified variants of the LSP. If those changes are expected to take longer, then they will split the SP into two batches, like they did with Astra Mk1 (200+48 and second order for 400 with greater range). User trials were conducted with initial LSP order of 50.

This stuff is already buried in development contracts because LSP is part of R&D. Only after user trials do you see the main contract.

 

[Tatvamasi]

Rudram-1's user trials in 2024 were from the first LSP batch manufactured by BDL. Adani was chosen for mass production. BDL will also mass produce the missile.

So the BDL factory is producing Rudram-1's as we speak, while Adani is building the factory and establishing long leads for it.

Weapon LSP process begins as soon as development trials are complete. This is followed by user trials. This means every time you hear user trials, it means LSP models are already in production.

Even Astra Mk2 is now in production.

Prelim trials using development models > LSP > User trials > SP. Sometimes we get more user trials in case of changes requested by the IAF using modified variants of the LSP. If those changes are expected to take longer, then they will split the SP into two batches, like they did with Astra Mk1 (200+48 and second order for 400 with greater range). User trials were conducted with initial LSP order of 50.

This stuff is already buried in development contracts because LSP is part of R&D. Only after user trials do you see the main contract.

So you dont have an answer?

These are all example of LSP or prototype orders given prior.

Asking again, whats an example of private company doing production without order. Too much bullshittary dont help anyone.

 

[randomradio]

So you dont have an answer?

These are all example of LSP or prototype orders given prior.

Asking again, whats an example of private company doing production without order. Too much bullshittary dont help anyone.

The LSPs are inducted. So yes, they are in production. SP is yet to begin. Even LSP is inducted.

You won't get paper information for private companies, none of them are listed in the stock exchange. They will ony reveal info about contract signed. But LSP production doesn't require a public contract.

 

[Tatvamasi]

The LSPs are inducted. So yes, they are in production. SP is yet to begin. Even LSP is inducted.

You won't get paper information for private companies, none of them are listed in the stock exchange. They will ony reveal info about contract signed. But LSP production doesn't require a public contract.

So when you say production you mean LSP?

Thats like 20 missiles or something depending on the type.

 

[randomradio]

So when you say production you mean LSP?

Thats like 20 missiles or something depending on the type.

No, the clearance in 2022 was for 200 missiles. 1400 Cr.

It's a larger program than traditional missiles 'cause you have to caliberate the seeker for different radars and different frequencies and follow different trajectories.

The main SP model's full clearance is expected next year and that's the version that's currently in production.

 

[Ashwin]

No, the clearance in 2022 was for 200 missiles. 1400 Cr.

Thats DAC clearance is for production order which is yet to be signed.

Nothing is in production excluding some small batch of LSP.

 

[randomradio]

Thats DAC clearance is for production order which is yet to be signed.

Nothing is in production excluding some small batch of LSP.

LSPs don't necessarily translate into publicly known orders.

User trials require LSP production. And I don't see production stopping midway through trials.

Astra is a good benchmark. Finished development in 2017, DAC approval for production in the same year, user trials in 2019, DAC approval for SP 10 months later, and main serial production for 248 began in 2022 with a publicly revealed SP order. First batch was inducted 1.5 years after contract. And we are extremely close to clearing SP production for Rudram-1. It would mean early SP related work's already begun.

Two main producers would mean larger orders than Astra.

 

[Tatvamasi]

LSPs don't necessarily translate into publicly known orders.

User trials require LSP production. And I don't see production stopping midway through trials.

Astra is a good benchmark. Finished development in 2017, DAC approval for production in the same year, user trials in 2019, DAC approval for SP 10 months later, and main serial production for 248 began in 2022 with a publicly revealed SP order. First batch was inducted 1.5 years after contract. And we are extremely close to clearing SP production for Rudram-1. It would mean early SP related work's already begun.

Two main producers would mean larger orders than Astra.

You mentioned that serial production has already begun with orders, and now the work may have started. Which is it? Why do you make statements with full certainty when you are not even sure?

 

[randomradio]

You mentioned that serial production has already begun with orders, and now the work may have started. Which is it? Why do you make statements with full certainty when you are not even sure?

I did not make such a claim. Someone asked whether Rudram has been inducted and I said it's in production, which is true.

LSP batches are sent to frontline units and can be used operationally. So it is in limited service already. That is the point of user trials. Plus with SP potentially being readied for clearance, it's likely that the SP model has been ready for more than a year now. Which means, the preparations for SP should have already begun last year itself. For example, ToT from DRDO to BDL and Adani, setting up produciton facilities, establishing long leads etc would have already begun in anticipation of the order based on already inducted LSP models. Companies are not stopped from beginning metal cutting even before a formal signature either.

We had deployed both MRSAM and QRSAM in the Himalayas in 2020 in their LSP versions, well before formal induction.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I did not make such a claim. Someone asked whether Rudram has been inducted and I said it's in production, which is true.

LSP batches are sent to frontline units and can be used operationally. So it is in limited service already. That is the point of user trials. Plus with SP potentially being readied for clearance, it's likely that the SP model has been ready for more than a year now. Which means, the preparations for SP should have already begun last year itself. For example, ToT from DRDO to BDL and Adani, setting up produciton facilities, establishing long leads etc would have already begun in anticipation of the order based on already inducted LSP models. Companies are not stopped from beginning metal cutting even before a formal signature either.

We had deployed both MRSAM and QRSAM in the Himalayas in 2020 in their LSP versions, well before formal induction.

Haven't seen an order for Kh31 in recent years. So i assume that Rudram 1 in some format is indeed in service.

 

[randomradio]

Haven't seen an order for Kh31 in recent years. So i assume that Rudram 1 in some format is indeed in service.

From Modi-1 onwards DRDO gave up, with forces' permission, the phased approach to weapons development and have begun concurrent development. This happened since Astra Mk1.

So production begins parallel to development. That's why the AoN, which used to be cleared well after user trials, was cleared before trials. This allows the serial production process to begin immediately after trials.

The only potential stopping point is if user trials fail, but that's quite rare nowadays. In fact, the newly found confidence in DRDO (since Modi-1) is why the IAF has agreed to concurrent production in the first place.

It's actually possible that BDL has already started series production. The problem with verifying this is it's the very first weapon that's going through this accelerated process of production.

 

[Paro]

Give me one example of a private company doing production without order.

A certain pvt company has started limited production of batteries for P76 even before the contract is signed officially. The gov just nudged them is what i believe, i havent even seen a DAC. Only people who know about it are the one's who attended share holders quarterly call in feb and that too in a very sly way. Not everything is out in the open apparently. And clearly they didnt spend all their capex without knowing they are receiving the order.

 

[Chester Nimitz]

A certain pvt company has started limited production of batteries for P76 even before the contract is signed officially. The gov just nudged them is what i believe, i havent even seen a DAC. Only people who know about it are the one's who attended share holders quarterly call in feb and that too in a very sly way. Not everything is out in the open apparently. And clearly they didnt spend all their capex without knowing they are receiving the order.

Is this Exide Battery which is being replaced in Scorpene

Looks like P76A ( first batch ) will be heavily indegenised/inspired Scorpene class SSK

P76B ( second batch ) will be TKMS Type 214 based

 

[Paro]

Is this Exide Battery which is being replaced in Scorpene

Looks like P76A ( first batch ) will be heavily indegenised/inspired Scorpene class SSK

P76B ( second batch ) will be TKMS Type 214 based

No, Hyderabad based small 2k market cap company called HBL

Though Exide has been historically the only battery supplier, Navy actively pushed to develop a secondary domestic manufacturer to eliminate single-vendor dependency

HBL is producing batteries for defense, including missiles and torpedoes, even for scorpion.

If im not wrong they are also producing the batteries for fuses in agni prime.