Tonbo already has some pretty decent lineup which are also being used by NATO teams. IA could just place some orders and Tonbo could re-invest that in R&D
Looks like a cheap chinese toy you find in a village fair
Small Arms & Tactical Equipment
- Thread starter Parthu
- Start date
Looks like a cheap chinese toy you find in a village fair
I feel the core SPG group protecting the PM wouldn't be using these. Most likely for training purposes. We've seen the issues with OFB's ill-famed INSAS all along and you just don't want em to jam during an attack on the Indian prime minister
Both are in active service, both will be replace by the new 6.8. Not sure if it is the 6.8x43 mm though. Most likely it might be closer to it like a 45mm case.
SIG is going with 6.8x51mm offer.
The offers from other 2 competitors in NGSW isn't specified but I suspect they're all the same case length.
51mm case length is going to be an overkill, my feeling is it's going to couple of mms either way of the SPC cartridge, but thats just my feel for it.
SIG's idea is that the same chamber & bolt should be usable across 7.62x51 NATO and new 6.8x51, requiring only a barrel change to switch.
TFB First Look: SIG Sauer's Next Generation Squad Weapons -
From what I'm seeing, SIG is going all in for maximizing commonality in terms of production (their steel-based hybrid cartridges don't require the kind of changes to existing ammo infrastructure that something like GD's polymer cases or Textron's caseless ammo would necessitate, incurring significant cost-savings).
Plus, their rifle & LMG offers for NGSW appear to incorporate the AR-15/10-style layout for controls (fire selector/safety, mag release, bolt catch, forward assist...everything in more or less the same place you would find them on an M4)...should be pretty straightforward to get used to this for a US service member coming over from an M4 carbine and/or M110 DMR.
H&K release the SP-5 for the civilian market on the lines of MP5 which could be converted to a fully automatic military grade subgun. There are also tons of alternatives and in one of US Army's RFI for the replacement of their MP5, the following manufacturers expressed interest
- Z-5RS, Z-5P and Z-5K Sub Compact Weapons; Zenith Firearms
- B&T MP9 Machine Guns; Trident Rifles, LLC
- MPX Sub Compact Weapon; Sig Sauer, Inc.
- 5.5 CLT and 5.5 QV5 Sub Compact Weapon; Quarter Circle 10 LLC
- PTR 9CS Sub Compact Weapon; PTR Industries, Inc.
- MARS-L9 Compact Suppressed Weapon; Lewis Machine & Tool Company
- CZ Scorpion EVO 3 A1 Submachine gun; CZ-USA
- CMMG Ultra PDW; CMMG, Inc.
- Beretta PMX Sub Compact Weapon; USA Corporation
- CM9MM-9H-M5A; Colt’s Manufacturing Company, LLC
OFB can be good but it has Shitty Management. We need to fix that first. Indian Ordnance Factories could and can produce world class firearms but there is little over sight and no good leadership. OFB should be handed over to the Armed Forces in my opinion with some government oversight off course. Military will be able to produce weapons for there own needs and uses and not get tangled in idiotic Messes that happen on Civilian/Government run operations.
The US has a rich gun culture unlike in India. Were owning weapons is illegal and even if you do get a Gun license the only weapons you can own are small caliber revolvers, Pistols or Hunting Rifles and even these are Mediocre at best. I don’t know what’s the problem in importing foreign guns. What India should have done was importing weapons and then license producing them in India itself. AK-203 and FN FAL is great Example of this. We should pick a list weapons across the world we want to License produce and then secure their rights an then create in India with a Local or Government Partner. Many countries across the world who doesn’t have a strong gun culture like India has taken this route of License producing there weapons. This helps in giving experience to the local producer on how to create and produce a weapon which will in turn help in creation of future home Grown Weapons.
Last edited:
Well that's the whole point, no company could survive with a crappy management and shoddy workculture. OFBs and other DPSU's are surviving only because of GoI's support without which they'll be dead in a few months. There is no point in handing over the OFB's to armed forces either since they'd still have the backing of a govt entity making them incompetent. The best way forward is to privatize them which would lead to hiring based on skills rather than reservations and crap. No wonder DPSU employees are protesting against privatization cuz they know they need to get their a*r*s*e up and work. Have you ever seen any of the recently produce OFB guns like the Amogh Carbine, JVPC etc...they look like cheap chinese toys you find in a village fair
Small arms and rifles aren't rocket since to license produce em. If you've seen the recent defence startups, they alone are able to produce some really good quality world class weapons. IA only found out Indian firms like Tonbo and MKU existed after their joint exercises with some NATO troops where their soldiers were seen using them. AK-203 is primarily being procured because of kickbacks and also for strategic balance. If our armed forces don't consider inducting indigenous weapons systems, there would be no scope for further indigenization and a lost hope for arms exports
Bang on point, the IA really has to come out of the "imported weapons are superior" mindset and adopt with evolving technologies.
Pvt defence players and startups are highly innovative and if given the chance, can make our army technologically advanced and self-sufficient.
Simply giving lectures about how indigenization is important is not going to work if you do not want to embrace indigenous weapons and technologies.
If the NATO countries are proudly using equipment being developed in India, then the IA should have no qualms in operating the same equipment.
The kickbacks loving top brass of the IA need to be kicked out of the office and the companies like OFB should be shutdown.
MoD should impose a self-arms embargoe on weapons systems that could be produced indigenously like that of small arms/rifles, all naval platforms except for subs, tanks and armoured vehicles, infantry gear, helos and other systems where we've made significant progress. Comparing ourselves with the Chinese is a far fetched ambition at the moment but the way Turkish defence industry developed in recent times is something to look up to.
Several indigenous projects have been killed by IA's top brass for their love for kickbacks by changing technical requirements and coming up with unreasonable demands and timelines eventually citing the research orgs as faulty and opting foreign maal.
The Chinese favoured indigenous systems over foreign ones, the initial products were terrible to say the least but today their products are comparable to the Russians and the West.
IWI/Punj Lloyd X95 Flattop Rifle 5.56 NATO for CISF Special Security Group ( SSG ). CISF SDG/APS Sh. M A Ganapathy visited CISF SSG Campus Gr. Noida and reviewed the operational preparedness & administrative issues pertaining to the unit.
Chinese got Experience for Producing Good Quality Weapons from the Russians by Initially Mass Producing WW2 Era Weapons, then the SKS and SVT and later the AK Series Battle Rifles.
Most Chinese Weapon Systems are Stolen or Copied Designs from Russian or American Weapon Systems from the past or present. They pick and Choose What Desgins and Technologies they like from both Russia and West and then create there own gun from them.