Small Arms & Tactical Equipment

[Aniruddha]

There always something nice about a CEO who responds on SM. Well done.

Since he says its a "tactical" sniper rifle I am inclined to believe its a semi auto rifle and not a bolt action. SS Defence has a partnership with the American LMT Defence. LMT supplies the Brits with the L129A1 rifle. This rifle acts as a DMR in British military, maybe we will get to see a India specific model of this gun :
View attachment 13019

SS-LMT did display the gun in the last Defexpo :

As for the PDW, I pray to God its the LMT Confined Space Weapon(CSW). I've been drooling on it since it came out :

View attachment 13020

Thank you for the wonderful news. Defexpo2020 is less than a month away. Can't wait.

SSS Defence was also fielding an assault rifle for Army's assault rifle tender, the AR was designed in collaboration with LMT.
But the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) played spoilsport and the development got stuck, so SSS Defence decided to develop assault rifles on their own.

 

[Gautam]

SSS Defence was also fielding an assault rifle for Army's assault rifle tender, the AR was designed in collaboration with LMT.
But the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) played spoilsport and the development got stuck, so SSS Defence decided to develop assault rifles on their own.View attachment 13021

As far as I can tell. ITAR stops you from freely exporting US made systems without US gov. approval. But there is a work around. You can always hire experts from US to develop weapons outside US territory to avoid ITAR. That's how Caracal CAR816 carbine was designed. Most of the designers were American, former Sig employees. It is possible for us to do that too.
Of course the design, development and manufacture has to be done in India, but foreign talent can always be hired. Lets see what they come up with.

 

[Parthu]

This Company should try to make 50 Caliber Guns like M 95

50 Caliber is the Real thing much better than
Lapua Magnum 338 caliber

For Snipers , 50 BMG is better than Lapua

Do we make 338 ammo in India

It's not 'better' or 'worse', it's just a different class of round altogether, meant for a difference purpose.

Yes, snipers do use .50bmg for taking care of human targets over extremely long ranges (+/- 1500-2000m), but this round and the rifles that fire it come with their own drawbacks. Its not easy to lug around a 12-15kg rifle.

Especially in high-altitude regions like J&K. And across the LoC its nigh unto impossible to acquire any meaningful sight lines beyond 1500m for the most part because of mountainous terrain. We aren't dealing with flat desert like in Iraq which was very conductive for such sightlines. Majority of sniper engagements across LoC happen well within 1500m. And in this range bracket & this geography, a sniper is better served by the smaller, lighter .338 lapmag round.

Infact quite a lot of Western users as well have dropped their .50 AMRs in favour of 338. Originally, many had gone with .50 because the .308 (7.62x51mm) could only really manage to be effective within the 1000m mark and the only way to reach out and touch targets beyond that was with the 50. But later the 338 came and fixed that problem to a great degree when it came to really long-range shooting.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

It's not 'better' or 'worse', it's just a different class of round altogether, meant for a difference purpose.

Yes, snipers do use .50bmg for taking care of human targets over extremely long ranges (+/- 1500-2000m), but this round and the rifles that fire it come with their own drawbacks. Its not easy to lug around a 12-15kg rifle.

Especially in high-altitude regions like J&K. And across the LoC its nigh unto impossible to acquire any meaningful sight lines beyond 1500m for the most part because of mountainous terrain. We aren't dealing with flat desert like in Iraq which was very conductive for such sightlines. Majority of sniper engagements across LoC happen well within 1500m. And in this range bracket & this geography, a sniper is better served by the smaller, lighter .338 lapmag round.

Infact quite a lot of Western users as well have dropped their .50 AMRs in favour of 338. Originally, many had gone with .50 because the .308 (7.62x51mm) could only really manage to be effective within the 1000m mark and the only way to reach out and touch targets beyond that was with the 50. But later the 338 came and fixed that problem to a great degree when it came to really long-range shooting.

I was thinking rather imagining of a scenario where we evict them from their posts by Artillery firing and Set up a Sniper team waiting for their officers to come and have a look

A 50 Caliber can blast jeeps , trucks and
Even an enemy Helicopter as and when an officer comes visit a Forward post

Of course the Army knows BEST , but all
WE FANBOYS wish is MAXIMUM DAMAGE
To the enemy

 

[Moondweller]

Infact quite a lot of Western users as well have dropped their .50 AMRs in favour of 338. Originally, many had gone with .50 because the .308 (7.62x51mm) could only really manage to be effective within the 1000m mark and the only way to reach out and touch targets beyond that was with the 50. But later the 338 came and fixed that problem to a great degree when it came to really long-range shooting.

Very good point and observation. In the Norwegian Armed Forces the .50 is primarily used by the Norwegian Home Guard, which is a non-deployable force.

The Army still has the Barrett M82 and does still use it for specialist applications.

But they've largely been supplanted by the Barrett MRAD.

One major saving grace of the .50 is its versatility. A far larger round means more internal volume of different perpetrators and powder mixes, such as the Norwegian made/designed Raufoss Mk 211, a high explosive .50 round with an armor-penetrating core. The .338 doesn't have the internal volume for exotic rounds.

From left to right - 5.56x45, .308 win, 7.62x54r, .338 win mag, .50 BMG.

Civilian available Raufoss Mk 211.

 

[Gautam]

non-deplorable force.

 

[Moondweller]

Turns out auto-correct doesn't like "non-deployable"

 

[zapper]

Old news but wasn't posted :

Army scouts for night vision devices for LMGs

Vijay Mohan
Tribune News Service
Chandigarh, December 22
View attachment 13006
Photo: EK Smart Thermal Weapons Sight (STWS) on a PK GPMG.

Advanced night-vision device is an opto-electronic device that allows high resolution images of the area in the user’s field of view to be produced in conditions of very low light or total darkness

View attachment 13007
Photo: EK Smart Thermal Weapons Sight (STWS) on a PK GPMG.

Even as the Army prepares to replace its INSAS standard issue rifle with a contemporary weapon, it has woken up to the requirement of advanced night vision devices for the rifle’s light machine gun (LMG) variant that has been in service for close to two decades.

Advanced night-vision device (ANVD) is an opto-electronic device that allows high resolution images of the area in the user’s field of view to be produced in conditions of very low light or total darkness.

“At present, the night firing capability of soldier with an INSAS LMG without an ANVD is highly inaccurate. The incorporation of ANVD will enable a soldier to acquire targets during night for all types of operations and thereby improving his combat efficiency,” a request for information (RFI) floated by the army this month states. “Also the ANVD will enable to identify and detect a target in adverse weather conditions, which is a limitation in absence of ANVD,” the RFI adds.

View attachment 13008
Photo: BEL Passive Night Sight for LMG/AKs

The Army’s requirement is that the device should be able to detect a human at a distance of at least 500 m and a vehicle at 1,200 m and should enable the user to identify them at a distance of 350 m. It should also have the feature to record and store images as well as videos.

The INSAS, an acronym for the DRDO designed Indian Small Arms System, comprises a rifle and an LMG, both having the same 5.56 mm calibre. The LMG is a light support weapon that features a longer and heavier barrel along with a bipod. The LMG also has a longer range of 700 m as compared to 400 m for the rifle. While the LMG has a 30-round box magazine, it can also use the rifle’s 20-round magazine.

View attachment 13009
Photo: BEL Passive Night Sight for CQB rifles.

The Army wants to replace the INSAS with a 7.62 mm weapon that has longer ranger and higher kill probability. After a long drawn process, the Russian AK-103 assault rifle was selected. Some units deployed in forward areas and counter-terrorist operations in Jammu and Kashmir have also started getting the new SIG 716 rifle.

Army scouts for night vision devices for LMGs

BEL's optics look ancient. They should go with Tonbo

 

[zapper]

7.62x39 Assault Rifle

I wish we'd opt for SSS's Assault Rifle rather than banking on AK-203 in entirety, particularly when the CEO said their rifles are entirely designed, developed & manufactured in India

 

[Gautam]

BEL's optics look ancient. They should go with Tonbo

Tonbo has no rifle mounted night vision sights as of yet. At least none on their website. They have rifle mounted TI and helmet mounted NVDs. BEL NVDs as you can see here are passive sights. Passive sights tend to have a disproportionately large objective lens. If the requirement is of active sights(I don't know what is the requirement here) then the objective can be reduced to make it more compact and modern.

 

[zapper]

Tonbo has no rifle mounted night vision sights as of yet. At least none on their website. They have rifle mounted TI and helmet mounted NVDs. BEL NVDs as you can see here are passive sights. Passive sights tend to have a disproportionately large objective lens. If the requirement is of active sights(I don't know what is the requirement here) then the objective can be reduced to make it more compact and modern.

Once the requirements are clear, I'm sure Tonbo can quickly turnaround a product to meet the specs given their experience and already existing vast portfolio.

 

[Parthu]

Very good point and observation. In the Norwegian Armed Forces the .50 is primarily used by the Norwegian Home Guard, which is a non-deployable force.

The Army still has the Barrett M82 and does still use it for specialist applications.

But they've largely been supplanted by the Barrett MRAD.

One major saving grace of the .50 is its versatility. A far larger round means more internal volume of different perpetrators and powder mixes, such as the Norwegian made/designed Raufoss Mk 211, a high explosive .50 round with an armor-penetrating core. The .338 doesn't have the internal volume for exotic rounds.

From left to right - 5.56x45, .308 win, 7.62x54r, .338 win mag, .50 BMG.

Civilian available Raufoss Mk 211.

I've read some colourful stories of what the Raufoss does to a human target on a center mass hit (let alone a headshot).

There any video/gif that depicts what exactly goes on inside the bullet as it hits a target? Something like this:

 

[Aniruddha]

I wish we'd opt for SSS's Assault Rifle rather than banking on AK-203 in entirety, particularly when the CEO said their rifles are entirely designed, developed & manufactured in India

We will need to replace close to 20 lakh assault rifles in our inventory to completely get rid of the INSAS system. I say, we cap the order of Ak-203 assault rifles to 7,50,000 and the rest 12,50,000 assault rifles can come from SSS Defence.
As both AR use the same 7.62x39 ammunition, logistics would not be much of a problem.
Also, SSS Defence should look to that their AR should be compatible with AK magazines.

 

[zapper]

We will need to replace close to 20 lakh assault rifles in our inventory to completely get rid of the INSAS system. I say, we cap the order of Ak-203 assault rifles to 7,50,000 and the rest 12,50,000 assault rifles can come from SSS Defence.
As both AR use the same 7.62x39 ammunition, logistics would not be much of a problem.
Also, SSS Defence should look to that their AR should be compatible with AK magazines.

Firms like Adani, Kalyani etc have teamed up with foreign companies to compete in the small arms race. Given their economic & diplomatic clout, they could influence the decision makers in going for a license-produced foreign AR all over again. I hope IA could seriously consider SSS or any private Indian defence firm capable of fielding a fully indigenous AR and for once set aside their love for kickbacks

 

[Gautam]

@Aniruddha @Parthu

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217086082551934977

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217093263087128578

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217102581618446337

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217105139988697088

 

[Aniruddha]

@Aniruddha @Parthu

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217086082551934977

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217093263087128578

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217102581618446337

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217105139988697088

Love this AR

 

[Gautam]

Love this AR

There is plenty to like going by the specs provided by the "padmaraj" on D. F. I.
Its still not a finished product. It has evolved apparently. Can't wait to see this on Defexpo2020.

 

[Sulla84]

There is plenty to like going by the specs provided by the "padmaraj" on D. F. I.
Its still not a finished product. It has evolved apparently. Can't wait to see this on Defexpo2020.

Is there any trial video of the SSS assault rifle..?

 

[Gautam]

Is there any trial video of the SSS assault rifle..?

Nope they haven't released anything yet. There were photos of a SS defence modified AK being trialed by the Army.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

There is plenty to like going by the specs provided by the "padmaraj" on D. F. I.
Its still not a finished product. It has evolved apparently. Can't wait to see this on Defexpo2020.

Could you list the specs?