Small Arms & Tactical Equipment
- Thread starter Parthu
- Start date
I almost got everything right. Except the barrel size ofcourse. The carbine has a 10 inch barrel the assault rifle will have a 16 inch barrel. The SOD version will have an integrally suppressed barrel. All guns are also available in 5.56x45mm NATO.
Are assault rifles/carbines also being tested by IA/NSG or is it just the snipers?
There was a photo showing an Army soldier shooting an early version of their assault rifle.
Chief of Army Staff General Manoj Mukund Naravane PVSM, AVSM, SM, VSM, ADC visits SSS Defence stall to check out the entire range of Snipers, Assault Rifles.
General Bipin Rawat, PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, YSM, SM, VSM, ADC Chief of Defence Staff pays a visit too.
General Bipin Rawat, PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, YSM, SM, VSM, ADC Chief of Defence Staff pays a visit too.
I have always said that ak 103 is a great rifle,so is AK 203 ,however it is not something for which you should pay high royalty for TOT and mass production. Unpredictable stability of the dust cover with time,stamped receiver are few things which does not make it worthy of TOT in 2020.Basic necessity of modern rifle is to have stability in order to mount optics and various other accessories ,as the time goes by these are going to only become more prevalent,thus it is necessary to have a stable platform.Further I have nothing against stampede receiver ,but the world have moved on to the machined receiver due to its rigidity,therefore if we have to get TOT it should be in know how of machined receiver not stampede,as it will culminate in development of other platforms based on it.
If these were not reason enough,the way overcharging for the rifles by the Russian is good enough reason to dump this deal.I don't know whether it is a strategic compulsion or some blackmailing by KGB ,but somehow Russian always are able to fleece us ,when it comes to defence deal.Even after the past lessons govt after govt, deal after deal ,nothing changes.Even in this deal there were no formal trials,competition ,discussions before awarding such a huge deal to them.Those *censored*tards Russian are not only inflating the prices by selling something which is sold for 500 dollar to their civilians ,and charging around 1000 dollars for same to us,but also selling a bare bone rifle to us.
Just look at this photo of AK 203 displayed at def expo :
This is nothing but AK 103 with hinged ,railed dust cover and flash hider,there is no adjustable stock,new hand guard ,selector lever ,even the mag is opaque polymer instead of the new reinforce mag with window.
I have lost all hope now,I am aghast at the incompetency of our political,bureaucratic and military leadership.This is a disaster of a deal,this is not the rifle for a modern soldier.On top of this, our army,media and politicians have over hyped this deal and rifle so much that the Russians have realized that it is a open house for them,so they are demanding more money .This is nothing but open loot."This rifle is not worth 1000 dollars,forgot anything more !"
Instead of this we are better of buying rifles from SIG or caracal or better buy it from SSS defence and let the *censored*sters at OFB license produce it.One line at SSS defence can produce for army while other line at OFB can produce for CAPF and police.
If this was not enough ,these Russian have audacity to question our decision of buying american rifles ,if anyone have an iota of shame or sense we should dump this rifle and the deal ASAP.
Just because of the stupidity of some of the army officers,there are high chances that the police and CAPF will end up with much better rifles,than the army.
Coming to the assault rifle displayed by SSS defence :
Positives :
1 It has adjustable stock both in length and height ,as well as folding.
2.The receiver is machined with upper and lower,it has a monolithic upper ,so no problem in retaining zero.
3.It has ambidextrous mag release and selector switch,placed ergonomically.
4.It has a side charging handle,shooter can charge the rifle,without moving it away from the target.
5.Pistol grip looks nice,have mag well which will ease the reloading.
6. Transparent mags.
7. Free floating barrel.
8.Quad rail allow mounting of various accessories.
9.Flip up iron sights,can be adjusted as per user preference.
10.Short stoke piston - provide a good balance between low recoil and reliability.Provide Over the beach capability (OTB) to the rifle.
11.Neutral design ,with straight lines which will offend none.
Negatives/could be improved :
1 Stock even though great is an ACR stock and not original,they might face copyright issue,further when they lay emphasis on design and developed in India,this stock does not do justice.However this is an awesome design when it comes to ergonomics,functionality and aesthetics of the rifle.So ,instead of building from scratch they could make minor cut and slash here and there ,so as to differentiate the stock enough to have it own identity,while still maintain the form and functionality of the original stock.They need to get"inspired" from the ACR stock .I would also like to repeat it once again,that they need to study ak alfa stock design,as its developers claim better control by mounting it slightly above the line of the barrel.
2.A straight upper receiver is great but the lower receiver should have some cut and curves to make it more aesthetically pleasing .
3.Side charging handle is great but it should be a non reciprocating type(which is not clear yet).It appears to be ambidextrous(hopefully so).
4.There is no 45 degree brass deflector.
5. Mag well design is too big,which is spoiling the aesthetics of the rifle,much like scar 7.62x39mm .A much narrower mag well like cz bren will be a much better design.
6.Instead of fully transparent mags,black polymer mags with window like ak 12 mags would be better.
7.The barrel should have been coated black.The only reason of not doing so seem to be use of stainless steel barrel ,which they wanted to flaunt.
8. Hand guard is too fat,it should be slimmed down.Also it should have been a mlok design.
9.I would have preferred fixed iron sights over removable BUIS.
10. Take down pins should be should be captive .
11. It should be able to accommodate quick detach suppressor and bayonet.As the time goes by,use of suppressor will become more prevalent in our army,and Indian army bayonet love is quite well known.Unfortunately I don't see a bayonet lug.
12.A birdcage flash hider will do the job,but a hybrid compensator/flash hider which can act as an adapter to suppressors ,will be much better for the job.(eg surefire WARCOMP)
13 Weight should kept between 3.2 and 3.5 .Instead of using iron for picatinny they should use a lightweight alloy.
14 Design could be further evolved,a more sleeker profile.
15 .Would like it to have an adjustable gas block.
16. P72 is an uninspiring name ,I would have preferred a more indic name .
I would like to suggest a name for these rifles :
MAUT : Modular automatic rifle
MAUT - Derived from Hindi word maut ,meaning death.
The carbine could be MAUT-S where "S" stand for short barrel,similarly MAUT- M for assault rifle where "M" stand for medium barrel and MAUT -L for DMR ,where "L" stand for long barrel.
My rendering of MAUT-S carbine with few changes at the lower and a warcomp muzzle device.A slimmer hand guard ,redesigned mag well,I would have also modified the stock a bit ,but don't have the time right now.
If these were not reason enough,the way overcharging for the rifles by the Russian is good enough reason to dump this deal.I don't know whether it is a strategic compulsion or some blackmailing by KGB ,but somehow Russian always are able to fleece us ,when it comes to defence deal.Even after the past lessons govt after govt, deal after deal ,nothing changes.Even in this deal there were no formal trials,competition ,discussions before awarding such a huge deal to them.Those *censored*tards Russian are not only inflating the prices by selling something which is sold for 500 dollar to their civilians ,and charging around 1000 dollars for same to us,but also selling a bare bone rifle to us.
Just look at this photo of AK 203 displayed at def expo :
This is nothing but AK 103 with hinged ,railed dust cover and flash hider,there is no adjustable stock,new hand guard ,selector lever ,even the mag is opaque polymer instead of the new reinforce mag with window.
I have lost all hope now,I am aghast at the incompetency of our political,bureaucratic and military leadership.This is a disaster of a deal,this is not the rifle for a modern soldier.On top of this, our army,media and politicians have over hyped this deal and rifle so much that the Russians have realized that it is a open house for them,so they are demanding more money .This is nothing but open loot."This rifle is not worth 1000 dollars,forgot anything more !"
Instead of this we are better of buying rifles from SIG or caracal or better buy it from SSS defence and let the *censored*sters at OFB license produce it.One line at SSS defence can produce for army while other line at OFB can produce for CAPF and police.
If this was not enough ,these Russian have audacity to question our decision of buying american rifles ,if anyone have an iota of shame or sense we should dump this rifle and the deal ASAP.
Just because of the stupidity of some of the army officers,there are high chances that the police and CAPF will end up with much better rifles,than the army.
Coming to the assault rifle displayed by SSS defence :
Positives :
1 It has adjustable stock both in length and height ,as well as folding.
2.The receiver is machined with upper and lower,it has a monolithic upper ,so no problem in retaining zero.
3.It has ambidextrous mag release and selector switch,placed ergonomically.
4.It has a side charging handle,shooter can charge the rifle,without moving it away from the target.
5.Pistol grip looks nice,have mag well which will ease the reloading.
6. Transparent mags.
7. Free floating barrel.
8.Quad rail allow mounting of various accessories.
9.Flip up iron sights,can be adjusted as per user preference.
10.Short stoke piston - provide a good balance between low recoil and reliability.Provide Over the beach capability (OTB) to the rifle.
11.Neutral design ,with straight lines which will offend none.
Negatives/could be improved :
1 Stock even though great is an ACR stock and not original,they might face copyright issue,further when they lay emphasis on design and developed in India,this stock does not do justice.However this is an awesome design when it comes to ergonomics,functionality and aesthetics of the rifle.So ,instead of building from scratch they could make minor cut and slash here and there ,so as to differentiate the stock enough to have it own identity,while still maintain the form and functionality of the original stock.They need to get"inspired" from the ACR stock .I would also like to repeat it once again,that they need to study ak alfa stock design,as its developers claim better control by mounting it slightly above the line of the barrel.
2.A straight upper receiver is great but the lower receiver should have some cut and curves to make it more aesthetically pleasing .
3.Side charging handle is great but it should be a non reciprocating type(which is not clear yet).It appears to be ambidextrous(hopefully so).
4.There is no 45 degree brass deflector.
5. Mag well design is too big,which is spoiling the aesthetics of the rifle,much like scar 7.62x39mm .A much narrower mag well like cz bren will be a much better design.
6.Instead of fully transparent mags,black polymer mags with window like ak 12 mags would be better.
7.The barrel should have been coated black.The only reason of not doing so seem to be use of stainless steel barrel ,which they wanted to flaunt.
8. Hand guard is too fat,it should be slimmed down.Also it should have been a mlok design.
9.I would have preferred fixed iron sights over removable BUIS.
10. Take down pins should be should be captive .
11. It should be able to accommodate quick detach suppressor and bayonet.As the time goes by,use of suppressor will become more prevalent in our army,and Indian army bayonet love is quite well known.Unfortunately I don't see a bayonet lug.
12.A birdcage flash hider will do the job,but a hybrid compensator/flash hider which can act as an adapter to suppressors ,will be much better for the job.(eg surefire WARCOMP)
13 Weight should kept between 3.2 and 3.5 .Instead of using iron for picatinny they should use a lightweight alloy.
14 Design could be further evolved,a more sleeker profile.
15 .Would like it to have an adjustable gas block.
16. P72 is an uninspiring name ,I would have preferred a more indic name .
I would like to suggest a name for these rifles :
MAUT : Modular automatic rifle
MAUT - Derived from Hindi word maut ,meaning death.
The carbine could be MAUT-S where "S" stand for short barrel,similarly MAUT- M for assault rifle where "M" stand for medium barrel and MAUT -L for DMR ,where "L" stand for long barrel.
My rendering of MAUT-S carbine with few changes at the lower and a warcomp muzzle device.A slimmer hand guard ,redesigned mag well,I would have also modified the stock a bit ,but don't have the time right now.
Most of this stuff will go to the special forces. Door breaching explosives will mostly go to ATS, NSG, SF, etc,etc. Its been quite some time since the SF command has been operationalised, but their equipment hasn't improved. We have indian companies making advanced combat helmets, thermal sights, NVDs, tactical rigs, combat vests, etc but as we saw in the latest encounter, para SF had none of these equipent, why? Whats the delay in equipment procurement? Anyone aware of these matters?
Defence Expo 2020: Bengaluru startup builds India's first indigenous sniper rifle prototypes
Updated : February 07, 2020 07:56 AM IST
A Bengaluru-based defence startup said it has developed the country's first indigenous sniper rifle prototypes, boosting hopes of reviving the government’s struggling Make in India initiative at least in the small arms segment.
Three-year-old SSS Defence said it built India’s first indigenously designed and developed two advanced sniper platforms, chambered for cartridges of two sizes (.308/7.62x51mm and.338 diameters). SSS Defence also made an assault rifle on the 7.62x39 mm caliber and a close quarter battle carbine platform.
Vivek Krishnan, chief executive officer (CEO) of SSS Defence, told CNBCTV18.com, that the entire design of the rifle is Indian. “We have applied a lot of cross functional disciplines — chemical engineering in coatings, metallurgy, industrial design, anthropometrics, aerospace engineering — in the process of design and testing,” he said, adding that the entire range will be made in India.
SSS Defence’s breakthrough in the small arms space is one of the rare triumphs for an Indian company in a sector that has long relied on foreign forces for weapons technology and manufacture.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi has made serious attempts to wean the country off imported arms — India is one of the world’s largest weapons buyers — but the push has been fledgling more than five years later.
Unrealistic demands from India’s military and its reluctance to buy from Indian companies new to defence manufacturing have often been cited as reasons for Make in India’s struggles.
Ajay Gupta, Director, SRG Techno, which counts the military and special forces as its clients, said while several private sector players and their foreign partners have signed MoUs to manufacture small arms in India, the fact remains that no company has so far been able to build a full-fledged state-of-the-art production facility.
“It still essentially remains a play for the government and its public sector units given their product requirements and order size. The cost involved is also huge from any start-up’s point of view,” he said.
SSS Defence’s breakthrough could potentially show the way for other Indian companies in a sector dominated by government-run companies. The government’s support has helped in pushing joint ventures with foreign collaborations, off-set deals and some level of technology transfer.
SSS Defence is one of the few beneficiaries of such partnerships. It has tied up with Companhis Brasileira de Cartuchos (CBC), the world's second largest ammunition producer with a presence in over 130 countries for ammunition production and is collaborating on many technical fronts with the Brazilian firm for the better part of the past two years.
Early in its journey, SSS Defence tried collaborations with foreign firms to seek technology transfer for small arms, but gave up the idea on account of regulations and restrictions, particularly ITAR.
“We did indeed explore collaborations to seek technology transfer for small arms, early in our growth stage. However, the level of indigenous production that we wanted to undertake was always going to face limitations on account of ITAR,” Krishnan said.
The ITAR is a US government regulatory regime that strictly enforces controls on technology transfers in the area of defence products.
Except barrel for logistical reasons, SSS Defence designed and manufactured the rifle on its own.
“We are presently working on also putting up a barrel manufacturing set up for precision rifles and hope to be self-sufficient in terms of 100 percent of manufacturing cost and content by 2022,” Krishnan added.
Krishnan is sanguine about Make in India, given the leap by his company.
“We have the industrial licence today, to manufacture both small arms and ammunition in India. We plan to be the only Indian private sector company to have operations commencing in both areas by the end of this year,” he said.
SSS Defence said a small arms unit will shortly start operations in Bengaluru and an ammunition plant will be commissioned in 2021 from Anantapur in Andhra Pradesh.
The reluctance of Indian companies to bid for arms deals is also changing, according to Krishnan. “We are seeing more Make in India bids,” he said.
“We are starting to see much more support coming in from the government.”
Defence Expo 2020: Bengaluru startup builds India's first indigenous sniper rifle prototypes
Updated : February 07, 2020 07:56 AM IST
A Bengaluru-based defence startup said it has developed the country's first indigenous sniper rifle prototypes, boosting hopes of reviving the government’s struggling Make in India initiative at least in the small arms segment.
Three-year-old SSS Defence said it built India’s first indigenously designed and developed two advanced sniper platforms, chambered for cartridges of two sizes (.308/7.62x51mm and.338 diameters). SSS Defence also made an assault rifle on the 7.62x39 mm caliber and a close quarter battle carbine platform.
Vivek Krishnan, chief executive officer (CEO) of SSS Defence, told CNBCTV18.com, that the entire design of the rifle is Indian. “We have applied a lot of cross functional disciplines — chemical engineering in coatings, metallurgy, industrial design, anthropometrics, aerospace engineering — in the process of design and testing,” he said, adding that the entire range will be made in India.
SSS Defence’s breakthrough in the small arms space is one of the rare triumphs for an Indian company in a sector that has long relied on foreign forces for weapons technology and manufacture.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi has made serious attempts to wean the country off imported arms — India is one of the world’s largest weapons buyers — but the push has been fledgling more than five years later.
Unrealistic demands from India’s military and its reluctance to buy from Indian companies new to defence manufacturing have often been cited as reasons for Make in India’s struggles.
Ajay Gupta, Director, SRG Techno, which counts the military and special forces as its clients, said while several private sector players and their foreign partners have signed MoUs to manufacture small arms in India, the fact remains that no company has so far been able to build a full-fledged state-of-the-art production facility.
“It still essentially remains a play for the government and its public sector units given their product requirements and order size. The cost involved is also huge from any start-up’s point of view,” he said.
SSS Defence’s breakthrough could potentially show the way for other Indian companies in a sector dominated by government-run companies. The government’s support has helped in pushing joint ventures with foreign collaborations, off-set deals and some level of technology transfer.
SSS Defence is one of the few beneficiaries of such partnerships. It has tied up with Companhis Brasileira de Cartuchos (CBC), the world's second largest ammunition producer with a presence in over 130 countries for ammunition production and is collaborating on many technical fronts with the Brazilian firm for the better part of the past two years.
Early in its journey, SSS Defence tried collaborations with foreign firms to seek technology transfer for small arms, but gave up the idea on account of regulations and restrictions, particularly ITAR.
“We did indeed explore collaborations to seek technology transfer for small arms, early in our growth stage. However, the level of indigenous production that we wanted to undertake was always going to face limitations on account of ITAR,” Krishnan said.
The ITAR is a US government regulatory regime that strictly enforces controls on technology transfers in the area of defence products.
Except barrel for logistical reasons, SSS Defence designed and manufactured the rifle on its own.
“We are presently working on also putting up a barrel manufacturing set up for precision rifles and hope to be self-sufficient in terms of 100 percent of manufacturing cost and content by 2022,” Krishnan added.
Krishnan is sanguine about Make in India, given the leap by his company.
“We have the industrial licence today, to manufacture both small arms and ammunition in India. We plan to be the only Indian private sector company to have operations commencing in both areas by the end of this year,” he said.
SSS Defence said a small arms unit will shortly start operations in Bengaluru and an ammunition plant will be commissioned in 2021 from Anantapur in Andhra Pradesh.
The reluctance of Indian companies to bid for arms deals is also changing, according to Krishnan. “We are seeing more Make in India bids,” he said.
“We are starting to see much more support coming in from the government.”
Defence Expo 2020: Bengaluru startup builds India's first indigenous sniper rifle prototypes