Its probably what was claimed/said in the GTRE seminar today. Just my guess.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
They are referring to the engine, not the MKI. It's possible an upgraded engine can be used on a drone instead.
Last newly made Su30 mki was inucted couple of years ago only..
As per ankit kumars posts, Russian jets typically have a life span of 30 years extendable to 40 years..
Taking it to 60 years means something not right..
Maybe very extensive upgrade on cards?
Like the composite skin u were posting earlier..
----+--+++++++++----
Sometime back we were discussing first batch to retire early without upgrade s..
OEM approved service life was 6000 hours/25 years. But looks like both have been extended, especially the latter by 10 years. So the initial MKIs would be phased out starting from 2037 onwards.
Russians have planned extensive upgrades of both their Su-35S and Su-30SM series fighters. Maybe we will do the same. We have the tech. Just the question of implementation and OEM approval, IMO.
Lots of possibilities. It depends on how you calculate it.
If the MKI is flown with the same frequency as a typical Western aircraft, then its 6000 hour life gives it only 25 years. A life extension or two are possible for 6-12 more years. Beyond that it will face serious quality issues.
Originally, the MKI had only a 16-year life, 4000 hours, but was extended to 25 years, 6000 hours. In theory. Using Western numbers.
But Russian numbers are different. The first set of MKIs flew 100 hours for a very long time. That was also how they had planned it, ie 100 hours a year or 10 years for the first overhaul, which was later changed to 1500 hours or 14 years, which is how it got upgraded to 6000 hours.
So, if they have maintained such a pace, then the first 2 squadrons are still about 5 years away from needing overhauls and then there's another one in 2042, for service until 2056. If a life extension is done for another 1500 hours, then we get to 2070.
Now, if we take the last 12+ jets delivered in 2020-21, at the same pace, 100 hours a year, we get to 2034 for the first overhaul, 2048 for the second one, 2062 for the third, for service until 2076. A further extension in 2076 would mean a phase out in 2090.
So this is how GTRE's calcuated their 2080 date.
But in reality, the IAF has to fly at least 150 hours to maintain their training regimen. Earlier, there were more jets than pilots, but that's changing, may have already changed. At 150 hours, an MKI will need an overhaul every 10 years. So instead of 56-70 years, the MKI will have a much more realistic service life of 40-50 years. So the last 12 jets could see service until 2070 at 150 hours a year.
Future optionally-manned capabilities may also save more training hours as squadrons end up with less pilots with more advanced ground-based training. So, with 9-10 squadrons mothballed, 2-3 squadrons could be made to survive until 2080 or even 2090. There will be enough parts to cannibalise from the remaining 200+ jets to sustain them.
Personally, I believe 2070 is the limit, with 2050-60 for most of the fleet, which means the industry has to provide main production only until 2056, spares and maintenance thereafter. But at least 1-2 squadrons can break the norm, which the IAF has a history of doing.
MKI should be retired by 2050s. No question about it. If anyone in service saying this just means they dont believe industry can deliver even then. Lets hope this is some DRDO guy.
What drone? Control hallucinations.
That's my estimation. If we start a program in 2030, it will take at least 15 years for an IOC standard, with serial deliveries of FOC 5 years later. So that's 2045-50, with replacement happening between 2050-60. That's 40 years for the entire fleet.
HAL and IAF can overhaul 30 jets a year. So 270/30 = 9 years. So if a jet is overhauled every 9 years, then it's completing 1500 hours during that time. So that's 166 hours per year, which is the minumum necessary, ie about 14 hours per month per pilot.
So 9x4 = 36 years per jet.
If we assume the first 2 squadrons were overhauled on the 14th year and all other jets were overhauled every 9 years, then the first 2 squadrons will have to be phased out starting from 2043 and the rest of the fleet between 2045 and 2056. Of course, they could get a life extension of 9 years or 1500 hours and the dates would switch to 2052, 2054 and 2065 for the whole fleet. In fact, as much as 3000 hours can be added to the original 6000 hours. So then that would mean 2061, 2063 and 2074.
GTRE's 2080 is starting to make sense. All the MKI needs is a life extension program that adds 50% more life. It's realistic.
???
A drone developed using an upgraded AL-31FP would be more advanced than what's gonna come out of IUSAV. And the process could take only 5-6 years.
Exactly, You are making up stuff. Nothing as such exist.
Wait what? only two overhaul is possible. You cant indefinitely life extend. From 25 years it will go to 35 max. Meaning Last MKI squadron will be done by mid 2050s.
IUSAV was also thought up from scratch by someone too. It didn't exist until the Kaveri became somewhat successful. Same story with the Indianised AL-31FP. With this engine, instead of an LCA weight class drone, they can make a Rafale class drone, with engine commonality with the MKI fleet.
They will naturally make a drone with AMCA's engine too.
MKI has been designed for 3 overhauls.
1500 + 3x1500 = 6000 hours
What is your source?
Overhaul happen 12 years or 1500 hours. Total life of 25 years which can be extended to 35.
A Su-30MKI is overhauled after flying 1,500 hours or 14 years, whichever is earlier. Over its total service life of 6,000 flying hours or 30-40 years, each fighter undergoes three overhauls. Eventually, the IAF's fleet of 272 Su-30MKIs will undergo 816 overhauls - three per fighter.
In 2010, the first IAF Su-30MKI fighters, which had joined the fleet in 2000, were due for overhaul, in accordance with the original schedule, which was 1,500 flying hours or 10 years. Since the fighters had flown far less than 1,500 hours, Sukhoi was approached to extend the time period between overhaul. After numerous inspections and "accelerated aging tests", Sukhoi revised the overhaul schedule to 1,500 flying hours or 14 years, whichever comes first.
(It's actually 1000 hours or 10 years)
Sukhoi Upgrade Poised For Takeoff -
With Russia badly hit by western sanctions, HAL to develop new avionics for the fighters Prasun K. Sengupta The Indian
forceindia.net
The Tribune article is incomplete since it doesn't mention hours.
But if they are suggesting 25-35 years, then that's 6000-8500 hours, which is pretty much close to my 9000 hours. Which implies 5 overhauls. So only the interval between the overhauls is subject to debate, which completely depends on how quickly the IAF plans to finish the 1500 hours available between each overhauls. For example, they can finish that in just 3 years if they want to.
"Inducted as a 4.5th gen..." No disagreements there. It came with an ESA radar and R-77 whereas other modern 4th gen jets had only MS radars and older AIM-120A/B.
It's no longer the case because others have surpassed the MKI today, at least in terms of radar.
These 12 new ones should be of full-on MLU/UPG. std. with Uttam MK3 AESA, GaN EW suite and upgraded/uprated AL-31FP with possibly more composites and better RAM to reduce its RCS.
Hopefully, we procure those 21 mothballed Mig-29s too and put Uttam in it. Mig-29s are still very effective over high altitude terrain due to their awesome thrust to weight ratio. With upgraded and indigenous avionics and weapons, their efficacy shall further improve.
Hopefully, we procure those 21 mothballed Mig-29s too and put Uttam in it. Mig-29s are still very effective over high altitude terrain due to their awesome thrust to weight ratio. With upgraded and indigenous avionics and weapons, their efficacy shall further improve.