Why can't you just google for once?. J-10C uses WS-10.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Wrong. Bars is almost 600kgs, while our latest AESA would be half of its weight. OLS-30M almost weighs 200kgs while our IRST again would be half its weight. The picture that you've quoted is several years old and outdated. MKI UPG. is a work in progress and is evolving.
Weight savings and improvement in Thrust to Weight is a given with or without new engines.
Once again, you're using outdated info. MKI's empty weight is only 17.8 tonnes. I've already quoted RMAF's declassified report to prove that. Operating Empty weight with two pilots, gun ammo and engine fluids is 18.4 tonnes. And you'd be surprised to know that old Su-37 Terminator(MKI's father) and new Su-35S weigh 18.4/18.5 tonnes despite being single-seaters.
MKI's thrust to weight ratio is very good and with extended LERX and canards along with TVC its flight performance is beyond every plane of PLAAF except Su-35S. Stop this outdated porky propaganda.
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First of all, what you quoted is not a declassified report, but a master's thesis from a Malaysian university. Secondly, the way you calculated the empty weight is just to add up several aircraft structures. This is not right. This is only the structural weight of the aircraft. The aircraft also includes the flight control system, data bus, unusable lubricants, unusable fuel, oxygen, alcohol, and can't abandon missile racks. You did not take these things into account. Considering these, it is almost inevitable that the empty weight of the Su-30 will exceed 19 tons.
Aircraft are not children's building blocks, especially statically unstable aircraft like the Flanker. When you adjust the weight of the radar and IRST on the nose of the aircraft, the center of gravity of the aircraft has changed. You need to change the overall weight of the aircraft or change the flight control of the aircraft. Does India have this capability?
Besides, have you ever considered that China is reducing the weight of the SU27?
In 2019, it is more about the IAF air combat organization. The range difference between R77 and AIM120 is not decisive. Similarly, since the technical level of the F16AB assisted by NATO this time is only the same as that of su30SM, far inferior to Su35, it will not have a decisive impact. If the assistance is 90 F16block70, then the end of the Russian Air Force has come.
He is right. The first four batches of J10C used AL31FNsep3 engines with a thrust of 13.5 tons. Batches 5-6 used WS-10B engines.
The question was about the Pakistani J-10C. Everyone knows that the WS-10 is very new and less proven. Therefore, I specifically mentioned it as a downside.
You look like a clown of the highest order. What I quoted was from "official" declassified report of RMAF regarding structural fatigue of Su-30MKM after years of rigorous usage with maneuvers almost reaching 13G(yeah you heard it right!).
Sukhoi's official empty weight(MEW) for Su-30MKM was 18.4 tonnes but when RMAF guys dismantled the aircraft they found that empty weight was just aprox. 17.8 tonnes including all subsystems and not excluding things like FCS like you're alluding . So 18.4 tonnes is with two pilots, gun ammo and engine fluids.
And they did include FCS weight as well. Here is the screenshot from the report:
^^ Did you see Flight Navigation Equipment and Electronics written above or it doesn't suit your Porky/Chinese propaganda??
India designed Tejas' FCS on its own doofus! We can/will do the same for MKI. Stop this Chinese snob and trying to run down Indian aviation prowess.
Su-30SM with R-37M is as dangerous as any Su-35S. Both of then would destroy F-16, don't worry!
My God, do you think I don't know the history of the Tejas? His flight control was written by Lockheed Martin.
Besides, you have to change the flight control, you have to understand the aerodynamics of the whole plane, you have to re-blow the wind tunnel, re-go the test flight process. Don't be naive
We will need to either re-write FCS codes/software or put new FCS into MKI UPG. as its weight distribution will definitely change(read more unstable due to lighter nose) with or without Sukhoi's help. Period.
Believe whatever you want to 'cause it won't change a damn thing!
You can find the original text of this. I vaguely remember that this is a paper from Bincheng University. I may have it on my phone, but I can't find it now. There is also the so-called 13G overload. The overload limit of an aircraft is usually not the aircraft itself, but the physiological limit of human beings. Even the top pilots in the United States can only withstand 9G overload for 45 seconds.
Are you sure you can still get help from Sukhoi after giving up Russia's upgrade plan?
Here is the link:
Structure Life Extension towards the Structural Integrity of Sukhoi Su-30MKM
The airframe structures of most fighter aircraft in the Royal Malaysian Airforce have been in service for 10 to 20 years. The effect of fatigue loading, operating conditions, and environmental degradation has led to the structural integrity of the airframe being assessed for its airworthiness...
www.mdpi.com
As you can see that this is an official 'declassified" report based on credit number 1 and 5:
I tried to explain to you the empty weight of a fighter jet using a child's method. Your calculation method is equivalent to calculating the weight of a person's limbs, head, and torso separately, and then adding them up to get the total weight of the human body. However, it is wrong. You also considered the weight of the blood system, lymphatic system, and nervous system.
Your calculation method is just to add up the components of each aircraft. You didn't take into account that the aircraft also has a flight control system and a data bus, which are the nerves and blood of the aircraft. Is that the end? Wrong. There are a lot of non-consumable items on the aircraft, which should also be calculated into the empty weight of the aircraft, including the oxygen, alcohol, unusable fuel, lubricants, and missile racks required by the aircraft. These are called non-consumable item weights. These are added together to become the empty weight of the aircraft, not playing word games like you do.
You can take a look at his acknowledgments. This kind of article was not promoted by the military, but by the Malaysian education department. The military is more of a data provider and experimental material provider, and generally this kind of data will be partially blurred when it is shown to the outside world for confidentiality.Here is the link:
Structure Life Extension towards the Structural Integrity of Sukhoi Su-30MKM
The airframe structures of most fighter aircraft in the Royal Malaysian Airforce have been in service for 10 to 20 years. The effect of fatigue loading, operating conditions, and environmental degradation has led to the structural integrity of the airframe being assessed for its airworthiness...
As you can see that this is an official 'declassified" report based on credit number 1 and 5:
View attachment 35140
Instead of looking for this data, you should look for Sukhoi's official data.
It is stated that the weight when carrying 5270 kg of fuel, 2 R-27 missiles and 2 R-73 missiles is about 24,900 kg. The weight minus the mounted missiles and fuel is about 18,900 kg.
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18.4 tons I suspect this data is probably the weight of the early Su-35, which is the number of the later Su-37.
I am relatively new indian defence so i just hame some questions about our sukhois
1-What type of jamming pods are currenly in use and are they able to counter chinese Pl-15 brv missiles and are they attached on the wing tip or in the pylons or both ?
2-Will our current Su30s be able to fight the latest Jf17 blk3 as they have better radar , jamming capabilities and bvr missiles compared to our Su30s
3-How many of our Su30 are currenly being equipped with astra missiles and till when can we expect all of our su30 be equipped with astra missiles
1-What type of jamming pods are currenly in use and are they able to counter chinese Pl-15 brv missiles and are they attached on the wing tip or in the pylons or both ?
2-Will our current Su30s be able to fight the latest Jf17 blk3 as they have better radar , jamming capabilities and bvr missiles compared to our Su30s
3-How many of our Su30 are currenly being equipped with astra missiles and till when can we expect all of our su30 be equipped with astra missiles
These two Russian pods, SAP518 deployed on the wingtips, and SAP14 deployed on the belly
And Israel's ELL-8222SB pod
There is also India's own experimental pod
Nope. That is an official RMAF document and it clearly stated that MEW was given to them as 18.4 tonnes by Sukhoi themselves. There is no if and but. And dismantling and weighing against the MEW is the procedure accepted and implemented by all AFs worldwide and not ONLY RMAF. Get that into your head.
MKI weighs as much as old Su-35 because its airframe uses more composites vis-a-vis old Su-35. UPG. with more usage of CFC/CNT will be even more lighter.
ELTA ELL-8222 and Khibiny pods(SAP 518) . None in their legacy form can counter PL-15 as it has an AESA seeker. But then, who knows
It won't be a fight but a massacre in favour of the Sukhoi. J-10C with its liquid cooled AESA, QWIP IRST and PL-15 is a far bigger threat.
WVR: MKI under right hands is near perfect especially with HOBS IR missiles and HMS combo. Even with guns it's very good. So, in an one-on-one dogfight MKI shall emerge victorious against J-10C with both IR missiles and guns.
BVR: J-10C currently with AESA radar, QWIP IRST and PL-15 is more capable BVR fighter. Only fighter in our inventory which can vanquish J-10C in BVR is Rafale. Rest all others are outclassed including MKI, M-2000 and Mig-29UPG.
Having said the above, modern air-warfare is never 1-on-1. And if the balloon goes up, MKI will prove our biggest ace and heavy-hitter.
How far along are we on indigenous HMDs? Those Sura-Ks on the MKIs are probably not compatible with the ASRAAM being integrated fleet-wide. I don't think the DASH helmet is going on the MKIs. It probably needs a custom solution. Happy to be corrected.