Our desi stealth buster is soon coming online. A game-changer:
Tejas Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions
- Thread starter Schwifty
- Start date
@randomradio, @marich01, @vstol Jockey, @Ashwin, @Parthu
Last time I said that we're working towards full passive ranging from our Dual-band IRST sensor, which means 100% passive engagement of unaware target with Astra 2/3 or ASRAAM Block-6. Since most advance fighters of today have LWS so using LRF of our IRST(it has got that too) would alert them. That's why I think this IRST is going to be a game-changer for us. Also looking at its colour, looks like made of "Zinc Selenide" so it shall work in all three bands(SWIR, MWIR & LWIR) equally.
Finally the cat is out of bag. Look at the last feature
Last time I said that we're working towards full passive ranging from our Dual-band IRST sensor, which means 100% passive engagement of unaware target with Astra 2/3 or ASRAAM Block-6. Since most advance fighters of today have LWS so using LRF of our IRST(it has got that too) would alert them. That's why I think this IRST is going to be a game-changer for us. Also looking at its colour, looks like made of "Zinc Selenide" so it shall work in all three bands(SWIR, MWIR & LWIR) equally.
Finally the cat is out of bag. Look at the last feature
We need to know if this IRST is based on QWIP or QDIC? If it is based on QDIC, we have a world winner.
QWIP most likely as no country of the world even the good ol' mighty USA doesn't have QDIP operational. Their best airborne IRST sensor is IRST-21 that is based on QWIP LWIR.
If we can deploy QDIP before US or China then that would indeed be a world beater
@randomradio, @marich01, @vstol Jockey, @Ashwin, @Parthu
Last time I said that we're working towards full passive ranging from our Dual-band IRST sensor, which means 100% passive engagement of unaware target with Astra 2/3 or ASRAAM Block-6. Since most advance fighters of today have LWS so using LRF of our IRST(it has got that too) would alert them. That's why I think this IRST is going to be a game-changer for us. Also looking at its colour, looks like made of "Zinc Selenide" so it shall work in all three bands(SWIR, MWIR & LWIR) equally.
Finally the cat is out of bag. Look at the last feature
View attachment 32883
Passive engagement is something that the IAF's had since the 80s with the Mig-29.
QDIP is still pretty early. It primarily works in MWIR, whereas this new QWIP works in 3 bands.
IRST systems suck at "proper" range-finding so they resort to using Laser Range Finder or trigonometry between/among two or more fighters to provide proper range information. Without that they won't be able to properly engage the bogies. But using LRF or even Radar in LPI mode to know exact range/distance could still trigger the enemy fighter if they've Laser Warning System(LWS) or Digital-RWR. Hence Mig-29 or Su-30MKI's current OLS-29/30M don't have 100% passive engagement like what was touted by the Russians.
Our IRST is going to(with help of AI algorithms) determine the exact distance/vector/speed/range with just dual-band IRST scan/sweep and HD TV channel without using LRF(it has got it too). That's is pretty impressive I think.
True, but there's a catch. IRST systems of the time were so bad that if the pilot was sure of the target, then all he had to do was fire the missile 'cause the missile outranged the sensor. So your sensor could do 30 km, but your missile could do 70-110 km.
Typically a radar picked up the target and passed the information to a pilot who would then point his aircraft at the target, get permission, and fire without using his own radar or laser rangefinder, hence the reliance on the R-27T. Even the modern era requires use of a similar system of targeting, just that the acquisition range has increased quite a bit. We are developing the Astra IR to make use of this technique.
As per this, we're aiming for 200 Tejas Mk-2 and 200 AMCA.
I'll wait for the official statement on the increase in Tejas Mk2 requirement from 106 to ~200 but I'll say it was to be expected. Won't be surprised if it goes even higher, closer to 250+
Also, it also likely means that MRFA is de-facto dead.
We'll be buying 36 more Rafales off the shelf, and that's it.
Last edited:
Nothing is dead unless MK2 delivered "fast".
Whatever it is, it should happen soon.
200 Mk2 seems right. Enough to replace Mig29s, Mirages & Jaguars.
LCA Mk2 requirement still remains 201. And the 114-jet deal is very likely to go through, but it may not go beyond that.
In any case, it's very important for MRFA to go through, not just for the IAF, but for the industry as well. Or HAL will monopolize the entire aerospace sector, and once a PSU takes over, it will mean the end of that sector in India. The private sector is necessary for innovation, neither govt depts nor PSUs can do that job.
Both LCA and MRFA will start off with 6 squadrons each. And they will manage numbers later, by either retiring jets a bit earlier or increasing squadron strength. By the time AMCA Mk2 rolls off the line the first 3-4 MKI MLU and the first 2 LCA Mk1 squadrons will be ready for retirement. With long wars becoming an eventuality, we will need reserve fighters to have more airframe life than usual as well. Considering that, there's more than enough space for 200 each of Mk2s and MRFAs.
But my guess is we will climb up to 50+ or even 60+ squadrons. An extra 300 jets should make up for PLAAF's rapid expansion.
Considering how long these tenders are hung up, I'm willing to bet we'll see firm Mk2 orders before we see MRFA orders. They're still aiming for a first flight next year, we could see orders for Mk2 by around 2026-27.
I don't see us coughing up the capex for 114 MRFA before then. We'll be cash tight again after the upcoming 97 Mk-1A and 26 Rafale-M orders.
Most we'll be able to squeeze in would be another 36 Rafales.
Would love to see 200 Rafales in IAF.
It's the question of affordability though. There's a reason these tenders aren't getting anywhere.
It doesnt have to be the tender.
There is no way the air force will place large orders in 2-3 years. All prototypes have to be flying before that can even be considered, which is at least 4 years away.
Yeah I also said the same to someone today, unlikely even the LSPs would be large enough batch no matter how much production ready version they are able to make. A fighter class platform first need good flying hours to establish the base. Without checking out that parameter, how can order be placed? Would be problems with insurance clauses, IV&V process everything.
@vstol Jockey How many hours of flight testing are necessary for CEMILAC and the Air Force to have enough confidence?
They will definitely have to amend if they want to place a production order from the get-go. Current procedure require LSP step before bigger order. Look at the state of LCH and LUH program both are waiting for LSP deliveries.
In my opinion, MK2 would hit full-rate production once we get delivery of entire MK1A orders(83+97). Let's see.
If I remember correctly, it takes 2000 cycles/repetitions for certification of an aircraft. And there should not be any failure in this related to critical systems like flight control laws and other such systems. 2000 cycles take approx 500-650 hrs of flying. In case of Mk-2, it will take lesser time as it is an evolution of Mk-1 and a large number of systems will be repeated on Mk-2.
So, if we start with the first flight of the first prototype in the middle of next year, then we will follow up with one every six months. By the end of 2027, all of them will be flying, hopefully. If there are no mishaps, then realistically by 2029-30, we can be hopeful of a commitment by the IAF.