The Indian Navy's MH-60R & Naval Dhruv UHM Helicopters

3
Okay 2 things i noticed

1. We will also be buying 1 extra MH60B/R of ex-USN origin under EDA. Most probably for initial training and then later to be used for spares.

2." Naval Strike Missile " , inert training missile and emulator, but no NSM actually ordered.

@Ashwin
Why buy NSM training rounds but not the actual missile ?:rolleyes:

Excess Defense Article (EDA) purchase is something very new to our procurement. Im assuming this is earlier S-70B conversion to the MH-60 standard.
 
DSCA articles for India , like in M777 deal or C130 deal, didn't mentioned any follow on clause, although we know that they did exist.

The previous intended deal was for 16+44 : 60 S70B version.

In my opinion we still will buy the intended 60 MH60R without MII.

The NMRH tender will likely see a S92 vs H225M competition in 12 ton category.

There is no follow-on options in the contract.
 
Private players cry foul as HAL submits 2 bids for mega Navy chopper deal

New Delhi: The Naval Utility Helicopter (NUH), the first defence programme being pursued under the much-touted Strategic Partnership (SP) policy, seems to be flying into rough weather. Indian private industry is stumped by the fact that the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has made two bids, while there are also doubts over one particular platform being preferred by the force.

The Indian Navy has so far received eight responses to the Expression of Interest (EOI) issued in February as part of its plan to purchase 111 helicopters for Rs 21,738 crore, sources in the defence establishment told ThePrint.

Private companies that have submitted the bids include Mahindra, Tata, Reliance, Adani, Bharat Forge and Coimbatore-based Lakshmi Machine Works. Sources say HAL has submitted two bids — one by itself and another through its joint venture with Russian Helicopters to produce the Kamov chopper.

Larsen & Toubro, which had shown initial interest, has not responded to the EOI, which will pave the way for the issuance of a Request for Proposal (RFP).

What is the NUH?
The NUH is set to replace the Chetak of 1960s vintage, and is to be utilised for multiple roles, including search and rescue, casualty evacuation and low-intensity maritime operations, besides torpedo drops.

The Navy felt that with changing security dynamics, more reliable twin-engine choppers were needed, which could carry out limited anti-submarine warfare as well.

The Chetak is a single-engine helicopter and is used only when extremely necessary due to risks of flying it over sea.

Of the 111 helicopters, 95 are to be manufactured in India by the selected Indian partner, while the rest are to be bought off the shelf.

The NUH project envisages a high level of indigenisation, with about 60 per cent of each helicopter to be made in the country.


Concerns of private players
A top official of a private company, who did not wish to be identified, said HAL’s double bid “kills the very basis of Strategic Partnership, which was aimed at creating capabilities in the private sector, over and above the existing capabilities in the public sector”.

Industry watchers said this is the final nail in the Strategic Partnership coffin — the first one was when the MoD went back on the original recommendation of having a Strategic Partnership for one category of weapon systems/platforms. Now, this stands restricted to only one programme at a time.

“Effectively, this has resulted in the SP programme getting converted to ‘Buy and Make’ with an additional restriction, wherein the MoD will make the choice of OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) for Indian vendors,” an industry source said.

Concerns raised by Indian industry include absence of level-playing field with participation of Defence Public Sector Undertakings, which already have the required infrastructure built at government cost, and a feeling that naval requirements have been customised for one particular OEM.

Some OEM officials, on the condition of anonymity, said the model as envisaged is not workable, particularly if the number of shortlisted Indian vendors is less than the available OEMs.

“This can result in arm-twisting by the Indian vendors as they can eliminate one or more OEMs from participation. Even for the MoD, it will be disastrous as it will result in sub-optimal competition and resultant higher price of acquisition,” a source said.

Sources said that after the elections, it is possible that the Strategic Partnership policy might go in for a full review to make it more workable.


HAL’s NUH variant and lack of platforms
HAL had put on display its variant of NUH at the Aero India Expo in February. However, sources at the Naval Headquarters said the helicopter does not have foldable blades, a basic requirement of naval helicopters.

Sources said HAL is already working on foldable blades, and will present the option soon to the Navy. And if an indigenous option like HAL is available, sources said the defence ministry would need to go for the Buy IDDM (indigenously designed, developed and manufactures) classification, which is accorded highest priority under the Defence Procurement Procedure.

Even if the programme was to be pursued under Strategic Partnership, the lack of available platforms internationally may lead to a single bid situation, sources said.

Of the international OEMs, Leonardo is currently blacklisted. The Russians are also in the race, but the Navy doesn’t seem too keen on the Kamov choppers. Bell Helicopter’s Bell 429 and Sikorsky’s S-76 have certain non-compliance issues with respect to the Navy’s specific requirements. The companies could carry out changes, but this would involve expenditure.

The front-runner seems to be Airbus, which is trying to push AS565, a platform that’s more than 30 years old.

OEMs have a deadline of 15 May to respond to the EOI issued to them.
 
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Private players cry foul as HAL submits 2 bids for mega Navy chopper deal

New Delhi: The Naval Utility Helicopter (NUH), the first defence programme being pursued under the much-touted Strategic Partnership (SP) policy, seems to be flying into rough weather. Indian private industry is stumped by the fact that the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has made two bids, while there are also doubts over one particular platform being preferred by the force.

The Indian Navy has so far received eight responses to the Expression of Interest (EOI) issued in February as part of its plan to purchase 111 helicopters for Rs 21,738 crore, sources in the defence establishment told ThePrint.

Private companies that have submitted the bids include Mahindra, Tata, Reliance, Adani, Bharat Forge and Coimbatore-based Lakshmi Machine Works. Sources say HAL has submitted two bids — one by itself and another through its joint venture with Russian Helicopters to produce the Kamov chopper.

Larsen & Toubro, which had shown initial interest, has not responded to the EOI, which will pave the way for the issuance of a Request for Proposal (RFP).

What is the NUH?
The NUH is set to replace the Chetak of 1960s vintage, and is to be utilised for multiple roles, including search and rescue, casualty evacuation and low-intensity maritime operations, besides torpedo drops.

The Navy felt that with changing security dynamics, more reliable twin-engine choppers were needed, which could carry out limited anti-submarine warfare as well.

The Chetak is a single-engine helicopter and is used only when extremely necessary due to risks of flying it over sea.

Of the 111 helicopters, 95 are to be manufactured in India by the selected Indian partner, while the rest are to be bought off the shelf.

The NUH project envisages a high level of indigenisation, with about 60 per cent of each helicopter to be made in the country.


Concerns of private players
A top official of a private company, who did not wish to be identified, said HAL’s double bid “kills the very basis of Strategic Partnership, which was aimed at creating capabilities in the private sector, over and above the existing capabilities in the public sector”.

Industry watchers said this is the final nail in the Strategic Partnership coffin — the first one was when the MoD went back on the original recommendation of having a Strategic Partnership for one category of weapon systems/platforms. Now, this stands restricted to only one programme at a time.

“Effectively, this has resulted in the SP programme getting converted to ‘Buy and Make’ with an additional restriction, wherein the MoD will make the choice of OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) for Indian vendors,” an industry source said.

Concerns raised by Indian industry include absence of level-playing field with participation of Defence Public Sector Undertakings, which already have the required infrastructure built at government cost, and a feeling that naval requirements have been customised for one particular OEM.

Some OEM officials, on the condition of anonymity, said the model as envisaged is not workable, particularly if the number of shortlisted Indian vendors is less than the available OEMs.

“This can result in arm-twisting by the Indian vendors as they can eliminate one or more OEMs from participation. Even for the MoD, it will be disastrous as it will result in sub-optimal competition and resultant higher price of acquisition,” a source said.

Sources said that after the elections, it is possible that the Strategic Partnership policy might go in for a full review to make it more workable.


HAL’s NUH variant and lack of platforms
HAL had put on display its variant of NUH at the Aero India Expo in February. However, sources at the Naval Headquarters said the helicopter does not have foldable blades, a basic requirement of naval helicopters.

Sources said HAL is already working on foldable blades, and will present the option soon to the Navy. And if an indigenous option like HAL is available, sources said the defence ministry would need to go for the Buy IDDM (indigenously designed, developed and manufactures) classification, which is accorded highest priority under the Defence Procurement Procedure.

Even if the programme was to be pursued under Strategic Partnership, the lack of available platforms internationally may lead to a single bid situation, sources said.

Of the international OEMs, Leonardo is currently blacklisted. The Russians are also in the race, but the Navy doesn’t seem too keen on the Kamov choppers. Bell Helicopter’s Bell 429 and Sikorsky’s S-76 have certain non-compliance issues with respect to the Navy’s specific requirements. The companies could carry out changes, but this would involve expenditure.

The front-runner seems to be Airbus, which is trying to push AS565, a platform that’s more than 30 years old.

OEMs have a deadline of 15 May to respond to the EOI issued to them.
Airbus, Bell and Sirkosky are having which entities as partners?
 
The govt needs to make private-only tenders in each segment for SP. Or else there's no point.
IDDM must take priority over model of procurement. The SP model is basically for those technologies and products which we can't develop on our own and for which the required infra and skills are absent in India. I was even against buying Kamov for LUH if you may recall.
 
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The govt needs to make private-only tenders in each segment for SP. Or else there's no point.
This DM has no courage/conviction to stand up to DPSUs. Everything good happened to this ministry last 5 years were initiated by parrikar .
The SP policy has been diluted so much that its no different from current 'Buy-Make' procedure.

MoD allowing HAL to bid is just unacceptable. (MDL was supposed to be an exception)

Airbus - Mahindra Aerospace
Sikorsky - Tata Advanced Systems
Bell - Don't know
Lakshmi Machine Works :whistle:
 
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IDDM must take priority over model of procurement. The SP model is basically for those technologies and products which we can't develop on our own and for which the required infra and skills are absent in India. I was even against buying Kamov for LUH if you may recall.

For IDDM to succeed, first we need the SPM. Without SPM, private industry will not be able to compete with DPSUs quickly, it will end up taking decades.

SPM is in fact a shortcut to IDDM, the foundation. Take DRAL for example, it will be the first private company to build a plane in India, all in just 5 years. Which means, because of having a SPM equivalent partnership with a more experienced company, Reliance will significantly catch up with HAL in a short span of 5 years when it comes to manufacturing. Any IDDM related research from Reliance's end for future technologies will follow after that.
 
This DM has no courage/conviction to stand up to DPSUs. Everything good happened to this ministry last 5 years were initiated by parrikar .
The SP policy has been diluted so much that its no different from current 'Buy-Make' procedure.

SPM is basically Buy and Make plus some more privileges for private companies only.

MoD allowing HAL to bid is just unacceptable. (MDL was supposed to be an exception)

Yep.
 
Reliance will significantly catch up with HAL in a short span of 5 years when it comes to manufacturing
What about design capabilities ? Knowing how to make things is great as long as you know what to make. With out that you are left doing screwdriver job on somebody else's design. Is there any process to bring know-how and know-why in the design domain for the Indian private defence industry ?
 
Defence Ministry likely to clear 10 Russian Kamov helicopters for Indian Navy
India
Srinjoy Chowdhury| National Affairs Editor
Updated May 02, 2019 | 20:59 IST

The DAC meeting, likely on May 3, is expected to clear the need for the choppers, valued at Rs 3,621 crore.

1556810750-Defence_Ministry.jpg

Pic courtesy: www.mod.gov.in

In what could be the last Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) meeting of this government, a clearance is likely for 10 Russian Kamov helicopters for the Indian Navy.

The DAC meeting, likely on May 3, is expected to clear the need for the choppers, valued at Rs 3,621 crore.

As this is a "follow-on" order, which means that when a weapon system (in this case, the chopper) is already with the armed forces and more are needed, the lengthy process of trials has already been gone through and aren't really required again.

The DAC is headed by Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and includes the three service chiefs, the defence secretary and the scientific advisor to the minister.

While major decisions are usually not taken during the elections, the Defence Ministry is an exception as there are national security issues involved. And it is more so this time, after Pulwama, the Balakot strike on February 26 and the subsequent attacks by Pakistani Air Force planes the next day.

Defence Ministry likely to clear 10 Russian Kamov helicopters for Indian Navy | India News
 
Defence Ministry likely to clear 10 Russian Kamov helicopters for Indian Navy
India
Srinjoy Chowdhury| National Affairs Editor
Updated May 02, 2019 | 20:59 IST

The DAC meeting, likely on May 3, is expected to clear the need for the choppers, valued at Rs 3,621 crore.

1556810750-Defence_Ministry.jpg

Pic courtesy: www.mod.gov.in

In what could be the last Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) meeting of this government, a clearance is likely for 10 Russian Kamov helicopters for the Indian Navy.

The DAC meeting, likely on May 3, is expected to clear the need for the choppers, valued at Rs 3,621 crore.

As this is a "follow-on" order, which means that when a weapon system (in this case, the chopper) is already with the armed forces and more are needed, the lengthy process of trials has already been gone through and aren't really required again.

The DAC is headed by Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and includes the three service chiefs, the defence secretary and the scientific advisor to the minister.

While major decisions are usually not taken during the elections, the Defence Ministry is an exception as there are national security issues involved. And it is more so this time, after Pulwama, the Balakot strike on February 26 and the subsequent attacks by Pakistani Air Force planes the next day.

Defence Ministry likely to clear 10 Russian Kamov helicopters for Indian Navy | India News
Ka31 for IAC 1.
 
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D5pKPtSW4AAq3r-.jpg

The Defence Acquisition Council of the Ministry of Defence @SpokespersonMoD has given clearance for the purchase of additional 10 Kamov-31 AEW Helicopters from Russia
 
D5pKPtSW4AAq3r-.jpg

The Defence Acquisition Council of the Ministry of Defence @SpokespersonMoD has given clearance for the purchase of additional 10 Kamov-31 AEW Helicopters from Russia
Hopefully the contract is signed soon and we have these before IAC 1 starts sailing.

It generally takes 3-4 years for the Russians to deliver these once contract is signed, going by the past 3 deals for Ka31.