Trainer Aircraft of IAF - PC-7, HTT-40, HJT-36, BAE Hawk

[randomradio]

So R77 magically appears on SU27's stationed in syria?
Russia redeployed advanced Su-35S fighter jets to Syria — defense ministry

That's the one I'm referring to when I said:
Only a few years ago they bought a small number of RVV-SD.

Russia's Su-35 was Spotted Armed with a New Missile over Syria | Israel Defense
Video footage shot by a U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet squadron over Syria shows a pair of Russian Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker-E fighters armed with a pair of older R-27 air-to-air missiles but what appears to be a single R-77-1 RVV-SD active radar-guided missile. The R-77-1 is the latest and most capable medium range air-to-air missile it in the Kremlin’s inventory, but the Russian Air Force has only a limited stock of the weapons.

They bought a small batch in order to make the production viable and then sell the missiles to the export market.

Before that the SU did buy 200 R-77s, but those never became operational, rather all of them were used for tests. A more advanced version did not hit production after their dissolution. Rather India became the first operator of the R-77.

 

[randomradio]

Learn the basics of how expenditure works in an organization until then it's pointless to explain how a cash strapped organization will struggle to deliver on development projects.

Whats the payment terms for Pilatus, or for that matter Dassault?

Things are functioning smoothly. Or else you would have seen HAL employees going on strike.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Before that the SU did buy 200 R-77s, but those never became operational, rather all of them were used for tests. A more advanced version did not hit production after their dissolution. Rather India became the first operator of the R-77.

So the R-77 that India possess's isn't up to the mark. Thanks for the admission.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Things are functioning smoothly. Or else you would have seen HAL employees going on strike.

I think you're being disingenuous for a change. Those loans were taken to meet operational expenses including salaries.

 

[Milspec]

That's the one I'm referring to when I said:
Only a few years ago they bought a small number of RVV-SD.

Russia's Su-35 was Spotted Armed with a New Missile over Syria | Israel Defense
Videofootage shot by a U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet squadron over Syria shows a pair of Russian Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker-E fighters armed with a pair of older R-27 air-to-air missiles but what appears to be a single R-77-1 RVV-SD active radar-guided missile. The R-77-1 is the latest and most capable medium range air-to-air missile it in the Kremlin’s inventory, but the Russian Air Force has only a limited stock of the weapons.

They bought a small batch in order to make the production viable and then sell the missiles to the export market.

Before that the SU did buy 200 R-77s, but those never became operational, rather all of them were used for tests. A more advanced version did not hit production after their dissolution. Rather India became the first operator of the R-77.

Again not true, Peru operated RVV AE a year before India did.

 

[Milspec]

Things are functioning smoothly. Or else you would have seen HAL employees going on strike.

I really am not in the mood to explain cash flows and it impacts on capex.

 

[randomradio]

So the R-77 that India possess's isn't up to the mark. Thanks for the admission.

Not correct.

The R-77 that came out during Soviet times was crap. It came out in the mid 80s. The one that India got was modernised with western stuff post globalisation and was introduced a decade later. It wasn't as good as the Aim-120, but it did the job.

It's obsolete today, which is a different issue, even Western missiles from that time are obsolete today. The Russians offered an upgrade package in the mid 2000s, but the IAF rejected it for whatever reasons.

 

[randomradio]

I think you're being disingenuous for a change. Those loans were taken to meet operational expenses including salaries.

But that's fine. 97% of the company is govt-owned after all. Whatever the profits, goes back to the MoD. They will just take in a little bit less. No one's complaining AFAIK. And there's still an IOU after all that. The money hasn't gone up in smoke.

 

[randomradio]

Again not true, Peru operated RVV AE a year before India did.

Okay. Probably cause our Bison upgrade was ongoing at the time alongside our MKI program. So Peru must have benefited from a faster delivery.

I really am not in the mood to explain cash flows and it impacts on capex.

Weirdly enough nobody from HAL has actually bothered. So we shouldn't be bothered either.

 

[Milspec]

Weirdly enough nobody from HAL has actually bothered. So we shouldn't be bothered either.

Let's remind ourselves,
When HAL bothers to complain, you cry washing dirty linen in public and put world-class contortionists to shame in defending the MoD,
when it doesn't you claim must be good, as nobody is complaining.

So what is the price tag of PC7 now compared to the HTT40.

 

[Milspec]

But that's fine. 97% of the company is govt-owned after all. Whatever the profits, goes back to the MoD. They will just take in a little bit less. No one's complaining AFAIK. And there's still an IOU after all that. The money hasn't gone up in smoke.

So is Pilatus or Dassault accepting IOU's now? If not why so with HAL?
While payment it becomes the government's own, while handing out orders, it suddenly becomes the step child. wah.

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Dassult paid 20,000cr or something in that order, how many aircraft were delivered? With foreign vendors, payment is even before delivery, here even after taking possesion of MKI's and overhauled systems, MoD doesn't pay HAL.

 

[randomradio]

Let's remind ourselves,
When HAL bothers to complain, you cry washing dirty linen in public and put world-class contortionists to shame in defending the MoD,
when it doesn't you claim must be good, as nobody is complaining.

So what is the price tag of PC7 now compared to the HTT40.

So is Pilatus or Dassault accepting IOU's now? If not why so with HAL?
While payment it becomes the government's own, while handing out orders, it suddenly becomes the step child. wah.

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Dassult paid 20,000cr or something in that order, how many aircraft were delivered? With foreign vendors, payment is even before delivery, here even after taking possesion of MKI's and overhauled systems, MoD doesn't pay HAL.

If you are so bothered by this, then you should use your contacts to get in touch with HAL executives and see if they are interested in taking GoI to the court for non-payment of dues.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Not correct.

The R-77 that came out during Soviet times was crap. It came out in the mid 80s. The one that India got was modernised with western stuff post globalisation and was introduced a decade later. It wasn't as good as the Aim-120, but it did the job.

It's obsolete today, which is a different issue, even Western missiles from that time are obsolete today. The Russians offered an upgrade package in the mid 2000s, but the IAF rejected it for whatever reasons.

You're agreeing it's an obsolete missile in a round about manner @Milspec

 

[_Anonymous_]

But that's fine. 97% of the company is govt-owned after all. Whatever the profits, goes back to the MoD. They will just take in a little bit less. No one's complaining AFAIK. And there's still an IOU after all that. The money hasn't gone up in smoke.

Weren't stocks of HAL floated on the stock market? Who's the governing body then? What're you on about?

 

[randomradio]

You're agreeing it's an obsolete missile in a round about manner @Milspec

Well, it's really old now, like the Mig-21. It has its uses even today, but it's time to replace it. The shelf life of the R-77 is just 12 years, and that's only on paper, it's actually less than that. When it was introduced, it was state of the art.

Weren't stocks of HAL floated on the stock market? Who's the governing body then? What're you on about?

10% was floated. 3% was lapped up, and 7% was bought by LIC. The IPO was basically a disaster.

 

[Milspec]

10% was floated. 3% was lapped up, and 7% was bought by LIC. The IPO was basically a disaster.

Did you even comprehend his question or is it just same parroted lines you keep regurgitating.

 

[suryakiran]

But that's fine. 97% of the company is govt-owned after all. Whatever the profits, goes back to the MoD. They will just take in a little bit less. No one's complaining AFAIK. And there's still an IOU after all that. The money hasn't gone up in smoke.

Just be happy, nobody has involved SEBI. You will then know, how the 3% reacts and what weight 97% has.

 

[suryakiran]

Well, it's really old now, like the Mig-21. It has its uses even today, but it's time to replace it. The shelf life of the R-77 is just 12 years, and that's only on paper, it's actually less than that. When it was introduced, it was state of the art.



10% was floated. 3% was lapped up, and 7% was bought by LIC. The IPO was basically a disaster.

Really does not matter. Point is its listed. And under the aegies of arguably one of the most powerful watchdogs in this country.

 

[randomradio]

Just be happy, nobody has involved SEBI. You will then know, how the 3% reacts and what weight 97% has.

Really does not matter. Point is its listed. And under the aegies of arguably one of the most powerful watchdogs in this country.

And, as I've pointed out already, nobody has cared to bring it up.

SEBI will act only if someone complains. Why hasn't anybody complained?

 

[suryakiran]

And, as I've pointed out already, nobody has cared to bring it up.

SEBI will act only if someone complains. Why hasn't anybody complained?

Shareholders will act only after annual reports are out. And after asking for answers from the company. And in annual meetings. And in the next financial year. Not as per media reports.

Do understand the difference, between media and SEBI. A shareholder can pull the company up 5 years down the line, if he feels this has negatively affected the overall company financials. For now, its wait and watch.

Do not mix your understanding of how shareholders work, with how media says it works.

Disclaimer : I have shares in HAL.