Trump Offers F-35 Jet to India in Push for More Defense Deals

The deal for 26 is supposed to come with final assembly in India. And Dassault is setting up an MRO facility in Jewar.
26 Rafale-M does not meet MoQ for a local assembly line in India. Dassault wants an order for at least 100 birds

Rumormill says a second deal for 36 was expected, but RaGa's circus ended that. So tender route for both govt and IAF.
Which is ridiculous considering RaGa has provided no evidence. And yet Modi is letting RaGa dictate his decisions.

DRDO has all that already.
DRDO is given an annual budget allocation based on ongoing projects. However, a defence procurement agency (or defence tech board) like they have in Turkey (SSM), SoKo (DAPA) or even France (DGA) is a separate government agency manned by professionals, (not IAS bean counters in our MoD) who provide project oversight, and funding to industry.

In India, the closest counterpart is HQ IDS but they have no financial powers and neither does the Dept of Mil Affairs (under the CDS) to the best of my knowledge.
 
The video is useless.

And the forum post proves my point.

To hide F-16s from other F-16s, you need long range, which means you need power, which comes from the radar. An internal suite cannot protect a whole group of F-16s from BVR 'cause it's only a self-protection suite, that's why we have powerful standoff jammers in pods, like the stuff Growler carries, which protects an entire group from long range.

The proof is really in Boeing's presentation where they pointed out the F-35 can only jam using its radar.


And we know the radar has only X band TRMs. If there were other bands present, you would see the antennas, like below.

View attachment 40877

The bigger antennas are L band and are meant for interrogation.

Plus the F-35 has never been revealed to jam radars in other bands, but the same has been revealed for the F-15's EPAWSS. What has been revealed though is the F-35's decoy can jam in other frequencies, and the Barracuda provides the jamming signals, 'cause the decoy on its own is useless. But there's nothing saying the F-35 has active jamming transmitters embedded in its airframe.

I'd love to be corrected with an actual source stating the opposite, because I have never personally seen it.

The powers that be decided that a stealth aircraft did not require full spectrum electronic attack until exercises woke them up from slumber and decided to correct it in NGAD and B-21.

F-35 can apparently jam in "most frequencies".

jamming.PNG


As you said, the radar only covers X-band. So that means either the antennas embedded in the wings (which cover a wide spectrum of bands) are not merely RWR but RWRJs, or that this is something only the towed decoy can do.

But as shown above in my post, the ASQ-239 lists jamming as one of its capabilities, exactly how it's advertised on the EPAWSS. But the ALE-70 decoy is a separate system.

It's also interesting that they show the embedded antennas emitting a similar cone as what's used to illustrate the radar's EW functions:

f35_sensors_wide.jpg


So my take is that F-35 can perform standoff jamming in X band, and self-protection jamming in most bands, while ALE-70 extends this coverage even further (alongside employing other techniques like misdirection to defeat home-on-jam missiles, which an integrated jammer can't really do). Typhoon uses a towed decoy for the same purpose - even though it already has an integrated SPJ. So having one doesn't mean you don't have the other.**

What F-35 can't do is to form a localized jamming bubble that can escort other, non-stealthy fighters. The Israelis are making modifications to address this.

** IIRC, we actually wanted a towed decoy on our Rafales as part of ISEs (probably X-GUARD), don't know what came of it. Maybe dropped because the French didn't agree to integrate it with SPECTRA. Without integration, they'd have been interfering with each other's operation.
 
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ASQ-239 has a jamming capability. They have a combined RWRJ like the one we planned for Tejas Mk2.

View attachment 40922

The radar of course can perform standoff jamming at long range on top of this which SPJs really can't.

The reason F-35I carries a pod is because the Israelis have a different use case. They plan to use their stealth jets alongside non-stealth ones. So you need the pods to protect the group as a whole.

Nevertheless, the pod is already integrated thanks to the Adir modifications. We don't need to pay anything for integration, the Israelis did.

The radar can do that. There's been literally no proof of an RWJ.

Btw, RWJ is just a marketing term. An EW suite generally does not carry antennas with simultaneous functions to prevent interference. Rafale has receive antennas in the inlets and transmit antennas in the canard roots. Mig-29 UPG has a similar layout.

No, we gotta pay for integration, they will make sure to bill us for it. Plus we need it with our own mission computer, not an Israeli one.

Nobody (except perhaps Five Eyes) knew the possible timeframes of when this would happen. Nobody in IAF expected J-36 to be flying by 2024. Or that PAF will induct J-35 by 2027 until they announced it.

Why do you think we're scrambling for a 5th gen buy?


Ah, why? All you need is a functioning brain to guesstimate. Even Mongolia can do that. Hell, I have written posts about the Chinese introducing their 6th gen before 2035 like 10 years ago.

Plus someone released satellite pics of the J-36 many years ago. And the India has remote sensing satellites too.

TEDBF won't survive an engagement with PLANAF J-35. That's why I don't want to waste time or money on it.

Neither the IAF nor the IN believe that to be true.


IAC-3 will be developed in a few years too.

They have a Rafale-only fleet now. But we'll be having a mixed Rafale/29K fleet till around 2040. So we don't need as many Rafales till then.

We can decide on follow-on purchase after operating the jet for a few years and firming up the Naval CCA plan.

All you are doing is recommending buying 90 Rafale Ms at the minimum, at the cost of ADA developing a carrier jet.

Exactly why I don't want to waste time on TEDBF. It's a STOBAR-optimized design that'll eat up our R&D resources till 2040. We can only begin work on Naval 5th gen afterwards in this plan. That's no good. We're wasting a decade. All the R&D we're doing for AMCA including shaping, RAM/RAS, embedded antennas etc will be ready for application well before then.

What you're asking us to do is to import F-21 now, and then build Tejas Mk2 by 2040. That's crazy.

So buy 145 Rafale Ms?

That's why I don't want to link it to the current CDR.

Navy only needs an AMCA realized by the time we get the 5th gen engines. There's enough time to take a new design to CDR by then. It would have maximum commonality with AMCA in terms of avionics & even materials. Kinda like Tejas Mk2 & current AMCA which are 75% common. The same avionics, wrapped in a different airframe.

5th gen AMCA and naval AMCA would be made along similar lines, except with 90% commonality. Same avionics & systems, just an airframe that differs where necessary. That's actually the same as what we want to do with current TEDBF as well. I just want it with a stealthy airframe that's CAT-optimized instead of a non-stealthy STOBAR-optimized one.

Rafale-M (which has an upgrade path ahead of it) can comfortably fulfill all requirements till then. A new 4.5 gen in the same class is both unnecessary & anachronistic given how threats are evolving.

The so-called 75% commonality, actually 70%, is not for the whole jet, it's for the airframe's internal systems like fasteners, landing carriage parts, actuators, pipes, wires, interconnections etc alongside some common parts for the avionics and engines that plug into the core systems, like cooling, electrical interfaces, software etc. Core avionics will be different. The idea is to have common parts wherever possible. So the first 40 jets with the same engine will have the same accessory drive for example. But the definitive version of AMCA will naturally have a new engine.

TEDBF will follow suit as well. It will have even greater commonality with AMCA though, very likely carrying the same core avionics and engine, but on a different airframe.

Anyway, it's easier to design a new jet than convert AMCA for naval use, especially CATOBAR.

It's not contested, it's denied. That's from where you get the term A2/AD from.

To contest the airspace, you need to be in that airspace. Along with the enemy. Whoever wins gains air superiority. But you need to address both the ground & air threats for the airspace to become permissible, which then allows aircraft that aren't necessarily survivable on their own against these threats (like 4th gens, drones, bombers etc) to come in & do their job without fear of being shot down.


“Broadly speaking, one of the big factors that has changed in Syria is the airspace in the sense that previously, you had Syrian regime and Russian air defenses which would preclude, in many cases, our ability to or desirability to go into those areas,” Pentagon Press Secretary Air Force Maj. Gen. Patrick S. Ryder said. “It’s a much more permissible environment in that regard.”

Now that those air defences are gone, the airspace has become permissible. When those defences were still up, USAF wasn't going there - cuz it was denied airspace. If USAF were to enter while the airspace wasn't yet secure, then it would've been contested.

So he says Syria and Russia had air defenses, and once they removed that, the airspace became permissible. And I'm the one making this up.

You read something, but you don't understand it, and then you attack others with your misinformation.

Actions speak louder than words.

It's not their choice. The govt has to take action.

What option do we have?

MKI MLU + LCA.

The purpose of a carrier isn't to just exist. We aren't the Thai Navy with their Chaktri Naruebet.

It's all about the aircraft. If the planes you're launching aren't survivable, then they can't do their mission. There's no point in launching them. The type of aircraft needs to define how your carriers turn out to be.

If you're letting your carrier limitations define your air wing, you're doing things backwards. That might still be acceptable if we just want a carrier for show. But we're past that point as a Navy.

Only you believe TEDBF is not survivable, the IN doesn't.