Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF)

[Arpit]

Kfx is inferior to our amca better off buying the su57 then. Kfx is junk. We could even go for the f35 if the situation becomes that bad..

KFX is light years ahead of Su-57. Comparing with AMCA, let's wait for HAL/ADA to roll-out the first prototype, but imo both aircraft be somewhat similar, obviously, both ver be inferior to the SFC version, where they paint the whole aircraft with RAM coating.

But as we not going to buy KFX, for sure. So comparison is useless.

 

[Lolwa]

KFX is light years ahead of Su-57. Comparing with AMCA, let's wait for HAL/ADA to roll-out the first prototype, but imo both aircraft be somewhat similar, obviously, both ver be inferior to the SFC version, where they paint the whole aircraft with RAM coating.

But as we not going to buy KFX, for sure. So comparison is useless.

Kfx is a paper plane. Let it do its first demonstration. The thing will be on par with su 57 at best in terms of electronics. Su 57 is way ahead when it comes to offensive options as well as maneuverability. It's nowhere light years ahead in anything. It's design parameters are on par with the typhoon. If we go on paper specs amca is by far the most ambitious fifth gen plane in its category.
Also we shouldn't waste our money buying kfx since it's capabilities are a joke also it's not fifth gen..

 

[_Anonymous_]

It's not the same. Rafale is a single plane with minor modifications for Navy vs air force. So the cost of the M variant is only slighly higer than the armee de l'air model (the differences : A harder undercarriage and an electric integrated ladder for M variant. That's all.).
The indian case is different : 2 totaly differents planes for 2 services. This is why I think a merge will be made, or one will be scratched.

Discussions on this are premature as of now as the IN & ADA haven't frozen on the design of the TEDBF. There are 2 designs as of now - one of which is a clean sheet design & the other a derivative cum modification of the existing one.

In any case the developmental costs for even a clean sheet design of an Indian aircraft is nowhere what it's going to be so for a nation like France. You may want to check on the total developmental costs of the Tejas for confirmation of my statement.

 

[Hydra]

Work On Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter For Indian Navy Aircraft Carriers On Track, Wind Tunnel Test Soon

ADA has worked out two configurations for the TEDBF programme.

swarajyamag.com

@randomradio @vstol Jockey you people may be interested ADA is having two different design for TEDBF, a rafale type delta & f18 type.

 

[Killbot]

I can only laugh at this that J-16 is superior to Su-35, but yeah Su-57 is not much Fifth Gen, that is true, more like a 4.5+. But no one stopping us to buy KFX.

Lol KFX hasn't even flown yet. And where did you get this BS?? Buy Su-57? For the Navy?

Also, care to explain how we're going to develop a naval 5th gen aircraft in another 6 years? We can't. And MiG-29 isn't going to cut it. Hence the TEDBF. If we could have a 5th gen DBF, the navy would have gone for it without second thought.

And why is the J-16 not superior to the Su-35? Because the Chinese made it? Thinking like that is only going to get your *censored* kicked. As many have explained above and in other threads, avionics package on the J16 is a generation ahead of the Su-35.

Btw if you're suggesting buy KFX instead of develop AMCA, you're stupid. Because its projected capabilities are nowhere near where those of the AMCA need to be.

Btw what will happen to MiG-29Ks when TEDBF enters service? Will the airframes have enough life that they can be transferred to IAF?
@randomradio @vstol Jockey

 

[Hydra]

Kfx is inferior to our amca better off buying the su57 then. Kfx is junk. We could even go for the f35 if the situation becomes that bad..

Right now We cannot tell kfx will be inferior to AMCA. What make a stealth aircraft fifth gen is its avionics, the domestic electronic industry of korea definitely going to help Koreans.
Both india and Korea are babies when comes to an aircraft designing, with slight advantage for india.
We have long history of aircraft manufacturing ( be it screw driver or license production ) than south Korea.
We both designed a single engined jet powered aircraft, India turned it in to a fighter and Korea turned it in to a trainer aircraft ( an aircraft with similar spec is serving an entirely different role for bith the nations. Do your math, whuch airforce is better equipped ).
The inly area we have clear cut advantage is when comes to aircraft designing is the deck landing aircraft. That nich technology we have achieved.
So logically speaking koreans have better chance of superiority over indians on fifth gen fighter.

 

[Arpit]

Lol KFX hasn't even flown yet. And where did you get this BS?? Buy Su-57? For the Navy?

Also, care to explain how we're going to develop a naval 5th gen aircraft in another 6 years? We can't. And MiG-29 isn't going to cut it. Hence the TEDBF. If we could have a 5th gen DBF, the navy would have gone for it without second thought.

And why is the J-16 not superior to the Su-35? Because the Chinese made it? Thinking like that is only going to get your *censored* kicked. As many have explained above and in other threads, avionics package on the J16 is a generation ahead of the Su-35.

Btw if you're suggesting buy KFX instead of develop AMCA, you're stupid. Because its projected capabilities are nowhere near where those of the AMCA need to be.

Btw what will happen to MiG-29Ks when TEDBF enters service? Will the airframes have enough life that they can be transferred to IAF?
@randomradio @vstol Jockey

Keyboard warriors, who start to write without knowing any context, why you making fool of yourself?

 

[Killbot]

Keyboard warriors, who start to write without knowing any context, why you making fool of yourself?

That would be you.

 

[Hydra]

Lol KFX hasn't even flown yet. And where did you get this BS?? Buy Su-57? For the Navy?

Also, care to explain how we're going to develop a naval 5th gen aircraft in another 6 years? We can't. And MiG-29 isn't going to cut it. Hence the TEDBF. If we could have a 5th gen DBF, the navy would have gone for it without second thought.

And why is the J-16 not superior to the Su-35? Because the Chinese made it? Thinking like that is only going to get your *censored* kicked. As many have explained above and in other threads, avionics package on the J16 is a generation ahead of the Su-35.

Btw if you're suggesting buy KFX instead of develop AMCA, you're stupid. Because its projected capabilities are nowhere near where those of the AMCA need to be.

Btw what will happen to MiG-29Ks when TEDBF enters service? Will the airframes have enough life that they can be transferred to IAF?
@randomradio @vstol Jockey

Irony is that people who diesnt believe j16 superiority over su35 is expecting Korean fighter superior to su57.

Leave about the paper spec, mod will not allow airforce to go for kfx when we have AMCA program in house.

 

[Killbot]

Right now We cannot tell kfx will be inferior to AMCA. What make a stealth aircraft fifth gen is its avionics, the domestic electronic industry of korea definitely going to help Koreans.
Both india and Korea are babies when comes to an aircraft designing, with slight advantage for india.
We have long history of aircraft manufacturing ( be it screw driver or license production ) than south Korea.
We both designed a single engined jet powered aircraft, India turned it in to a fighter and Korea turned it in to a trainer aircraft ( an aircraft with similar spec is serving an entirely different role for bith the nations. Do your math, whuch airforce is better equipped ).
The inly area we have clear cut advantage is when comes to aircraft designing is the deck landing aircraft. That nich technology we have achieved.
So logically speaking koreans have better chance of superiority over indians on fifth gen fighter.

That is where the security situation comes in. Koreans don't need the same thing from KFX as we do from AMCA. Hence, the projected specs are lower. We can't just buy from them if it doesn't match our requirements.

Irony is that people who diesnt believe j16 superiority over su35 is expecting Korean fighter superior to su57.

Leave about the paper spec, mod will not allow airforce to go for kfx when we have AMCA program in house.

Exactly and exactly.

 

[Arpit]

Irony is that people who diesnt believe j16 superiority over su35 is expecting Korean fighter superior to su57.

Leave about the paper spec, mod will not allow airforce to go for kfx when we have AMCA program in house.

Please give us the official test data or any 3rd party data of J-16. As you already reached to a conclusion, I am pretty sure you must have it. Thank you.

That would be you.

Kid, develop your brain and start to understand the underlying context.

 

[Arpit]

Kfx is a paper plane. Let it do its first demonstration. The thing will be on par with su 57 at best in terms of electronics. Su 57 is way ahead when it comes to offensive options as well as maneuverability. It's nowhere light years ahead in anything. It's design parameters are on par with the typhoon. If we go on paper specs amca is by far the most ambitious fifth gen plane in its category.
Also we shouldn't waste our money buying kfx since it's capabilities are a joke also it's not fifth gen..

So does AMCA. but you were doing the comparison.

But if you think, Russians are ahead, for a test case, simply do the comparison of radars coming out of Russian and Korea.

 

[Lolwa]

Right now We cannot tell kfx will be inferior to AMCA. What make a stealth aircraft fifth gen is its avionics, the domestic electronic industry of korea definitely going to help Koreans.
Both india and Korea are babies when comes to an aircraft designing, with slight advantage for india.
We have long history of aircraft manufacturing ( be it screw driver or license production ) than south Korea.
We both designed a single engined jet powered aircraft, India turned it in to a fighter and Korea turned it in to a trainer aircraft ( an aircraft with similar spec is serving an entirely different role for bith the nations. Do your math, whuch airforce is better equipped ).
The inly area we have clear cut advantage is when comes to aircraft designing is the deck landing aircraft. That nich technology we have achieved.
So logically speaking koreans have better chance of superiority over indians on fifth gen fighter.

Kfx will be inferior to amca simply because the Korean requirements are much less demanding than amca's.
FA-50 golden eagle was made with the help of Lockheed Martin and is nowhere close to the tejas in performance maybe it's a more agile fighter since trainers tend to be good in low speed regimes. I agree on the electronics part that the Koreans might end up designing a good radar and avionics but we already have an aesa while their aesa has only started its testing. Uttam is already being upscaled into a mk2 variant. The Korean aesa is still not online. The only place I think Koreans could do a good job is sensor fusion that is to be seen though. And the ROKAF is entirely an American inventory based air force. They do not use any indigenous made weapons nor do they seem to have any niche ability or weapon unlike the IAF.
You can even see in the preliminary design the AMCA is way ahead in every parameter and if you take the paper specs it is way too overambitious compared to similar fifth gen programs whether it's the TAI-tfx,kfx,J-31. The one weakness of the amca will the EOTS,IRST and sensor fusion which I fear won't be as good or modem compared to peer fifth gen.
Also the guy was comparing su57 with the kfx. Even the Koreans themselves call it a eurofighter/rafale equivalent not a f22 competitor. Su 57 is atleast a 4.9 gen presently even though it's not true fifth gen for that matter even the j20 nor the f35 fulfill the 5 th gen criteria set by the f22.

 

[Hydra]

Please give us the official test data or any 3rd party data of J-16. As you already reached to a conclusion, I am pretty sure you must have it. Thank you.

Kid, develop your brain and start to understand the underlying context.

Please give the official test data of KFX.

 

[Lolwa]

So does AMCA. but you were doing the comparison.

But if you think, Russians are ahead, for a test case, simply do the comparison of radars coming out of Russian and Korea.

I have yet to see an aesa radar out of Korea while the Russians already have the byelka online. On top of that the su57's design is superior. How can you call a plane which isn't even in its prototype stage better than a plane which already in service. The su 57 is just a superior design.

 

[Arpit]

Please give the official test data of KFX.

There is none, that's why I said comparison is useless right now.

But you are quite confident that J-16 is a generation ahead of Su-35. And both are in service, I am pretty sure you did the analysis, so by all means put the picture in context.

 

[Arpit]

I have yet to see an aesa radar out of Korea while the Russians already have the byelka online. On top of that the su57's design is superior. How can you call a plane which isn't even in its prototype stage better than a plane which already in service. The su 57 is just a superior design.

 

[Killbot]

Please give us the official test data or any 3rd party data of J-16. As you already reached to a conclusion, I am pretty sure you must have it. Thank you

And thus begin the games.

Shenyang J-16 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Sukhoi Su-35 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Could've just Googled them.

Kid, develop your brain and start to understand the underlying context

The fact that you said "develop your brain" shows me how... 'developed' yours is.

Also, "kid"... That's getting a bit old, don't you think?

 

[Hydra]

There is none, that's why I said comparison is useless right now.

But you are quite confident that J-16 is a generation ahead of Su-35. And both are in service, I am pretty sure you did the analysis, so by all means put the picture in context.

My heart wants to beleive su35 is superior, but my brain is saying otherwise. The domestic electronics or domestic civilian industry and military technology is complementary in nature.

I dont have, neither any one else having any authentic data of j16's avionics ( all the members of this forums are talking about avionics not about the kinematic performance or airframe ) to make the conclusion, but what i do have the Provence of the Chinese electronics. And now read this,with the aspirations of Chinese to become world leader, and with abundance of money, with last 20-30 years of continuous r&d we can concludes that j16 has serious punch with in it.

 

[Arpit]

My heart wants to beleive su35 is superior, but my brain is saying otherwise. The domestic electronics or domestic civilian industry and military technology is complementary in nature.

I dont have, neither any one else having any authentic data of j16's avionics ( all the members of this forums are talking about avionics not about the kinematic performance or airframe ) to make the conclusion, but what i do have the Provence of the Chinese electronics. And now read this,with the aspirations of Chinese to become world leader, and with abundance of money, with last 20-30 years of continuous r&d we can concludes that j16 has serious punch with in it.

China is unable to produce a single workable engine and AESA with high TBO. and then the Chinese start to make a claim of J-16 is superior.

The situation is this that china till now unable to produce a single decent Day/Night Targeting pod, that's why Pak had to reach ASELAN, these are the simplest things.

Aselsan Confirms ASELPOD Integration on Pakistani JF-17

Turkish defence giant Aselsan confirmed (in its Annual Yearbook for 2017) that its ASELPOD advanced targeting pod was successfully integrated and tested from the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighters.

quwa.org

The claims of avionics in J-16 is superior to Su-35 is just propaganda from that side of the border.