It's a prototype. Let it finish its testing byelka is a bigger radar with more trm modules. Also by the time the kfx gets its FOC we will have su57 mk2 for all we know..
Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF)
- Thread starter Gautam
- Start date
byelka has almost double the number of TRM modules than RBE2, but still, RBE2 is superior in all modes. And doesn't even come with LPI & NCTR modes, so let's not go there.
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Totally non related argument, they can source engine from abroad just like what we did with TejasChina is unable to produce a single workable engine and AESA with high TBO. and then the Chinese start to make a claim of J-16 is superior.
The situation is this that china till now unable to produce a single decent Day/Night Targeting pod, that's why Pak had to reach ASELAN, these are the simplest things.
Aselsan Confirms ASELPOD Integration on Pakistani JF-17
Turkish defence giant Aselsan confirmed (in its Annual Yearbook for 2017) that its ASELPOD advanced targeting pod was successfully integrated and tested from the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighters.quwa.org
The claims of avionics in J-16 is superior to Su-35 is just propaganda from that side of the border.
FYI they already started equipping j20 with their own engine.
How it is an unrelated argument? Engines are part of the system, which is the biggest component of aircraft, all your OPs dependent on that. And if they have signed any contract for J-16 from abroad, can you post it here?
And I start to believe this story of Chinese engines superior to Russian the day PAF buy it. Even in Block 3 they going with RD-93MA, which is specifically designed for JF-17 Block 3, after Pakistan requested it from Russia.
But even in avionics, why is PAF going with the Turkish Targeting pod? And they were literally crying in front of Italy to give permission to integrate Griefo with JF-17. But when they refused, then PAF chose KLJ-7A.
Go and read the conversations ince again, all of us are talking about j16 Avionics vs Su35s avionics.
I do remember back then jf17 fanboys, Pakistani members ridiculed Indian for calling Tejas an Indian indigenous aircraft, reason is engine and few subsystems are not Indian. You sounds similar to them.
But again, avionics are not much better, is it?
And as for ridiculing us, they don't have the luxury to contact Israel. They can call whatever they want, we still come out superior.
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Still doesn't change the fact that kfx will never be a fifth gen until late in 2035..
They're following the same pattern as AMCA i.e Mk-1 & 2 plus they've good technology partners in the US. So, logically they've a better chance of successfully developing 5G or 5.25G tech by the mid 30's than we do.
Going ahead we'd definitely require help in that the engine would have a variable cycle drive , with other features of the platform being sensor fusion, DEW,apart from metallurgy, RAM coatings, geometry,etc which are supposed to be part of the AMCA.
Let's wait for the SWIFT to fly. Some of the technologies mentioned above would be validated. Or not. At least we'd know how good or bad we are.
The Su-57 fits into a different niche. It's not a replacement for AMCA or vice versa. And whether we go for it or not is obviously not a technical decision, but a budget and political decision. Naturally, you should be comparing the SU-57 with the American decision to go for F-15, the TEDBF can't be compared here since it's purely a technical decision.
Their budget decision has less to do with having no money and more to do with priotities of spending. If their security situation gets worse, then their budget priorities can be reversed at the drop of a hat.
The original replacement of the F-15 was the F-22. Now their only choice to replace the F-15 is either the F-35 or another F-15. As far as the USAF is concerned, they would rather replace the old F-15s with F-35s rather than the F-15EX, but they have not been allocated enough money for that, hence the F-15EX it is. Also, the F-15 decision is still pending, right now they have only committed to 12 aircraft and 2 squadrons.
What's more interesting is the USN's move. They had earlier planned to induct 72 SH B3s, but have since decided to cut those numbers back to 36 and invest the remaining money into the development of the NGAD. So they are only going to receive 12 SHs each year over the next 3 years.
Anyway, you are wondering about 2070, but that's only old aircraft with long lives bleeding into next gen territory. It's not any different from the IAF still operating 3rd gen aircraft like the Jaguar even today. So any 4th gen aircraft being inducted today will see service for the next 40 years at the minimum, ie, 2060. But none of these aircraft will be the primary aircraft, they will all only end up supporting the primary aircraft. No serious air force is buying or planning to buy newly designed 4th gen jets in the 2030s. Only the IN is, and out of desperation than anything else, and for them a 4th gen jet will be their primary aircraft in the 2030s.
You are confusing one issue with the other. Budget issue for buying numerous jets is different from a budget issue of developing a fighter jet, both are under different overheads and is not related to what I am referring to.
It takes a minimum of 5-10 years before a jet becomes operationally viable. This is done through numerous large formation exercises. This process begins after a jet achieves FOC. It takes 2 years after FOC just to train your first batch of fully qualified pilots. Then it takes 2 or 3 more years before it starts achieving dominance in its field, that's when you get pilots with 500-1000 hours of flight experience. And after 5-10 years you will have enough aircraft and enough pilots for a high rank officer to qualify your fighter jet for role replacement of the previous aircraft. You can't magically churn out pilots overnight no matter how smartly you have designed your fighter jet because this has nothing to do with training a pilot. Hell it takes years just to write the instruction manual for it and then it goes through a long process of corrections, which also takes years. There is a reason why test pilots are so highly respected. IIRC, the MKI took 7 years after induction.
So this process is easier and much shorter on a proven jet than on a brand new jet because someone else, namely the French when it comes to the Rafale, has already finished all the necessary tests needed before its qualification as a combat-ready aircraft.
The IAF is being forced to buy 4th gen jets of a particular class today because they were denied the choice for more than 30 years now. Even then they plan on buying only proven, or in the process of being proven, 4th gen designs like the Rafale and LCA and through the 2020s. If you are expecting them to buy a newly designed 4th gen jet in the 2030s in the light of the above facts, especially with AMCA coming online even earlier than ORCA, then you most definitely do not understand how air forces operate. It's impossible for the IAF to buy both the ORCA and AMCA at the same time and put both through a long baptism before using it when better alternatives are already available, including the Su-57.
The IAF will be replacing their Mig-29s and M2000s with LCA Mk2, Mig-27s with Rafale and Jaguars with AMCA. MKI replacement is planned for the late 2040s. With the exception of 32 MKIs supplied by Russia, most of the MKIs are very young and will undergo 3 overhauls pushing the fleet to between 2050 and beyond.
The Russians are focusing their next gen efforts solely on the Su-57 and Mig-35. They are mainly getting proven technologies for their 4th gen fleet because they needed combat capability ASAP, they are in the same boat as India. The Chinese did not have such contraints so they decided to put untested next gen tech on their 4h gen jets.
The Pakistanis are unlikely to get anything better than the Rafale already is until 2035. They will remain a generation behind the IAF for the foreseeable future.
KFX is being designed in phases. In the first phase, it's only going to be equivalent to the Rafale or Typhoon. In the next phase it will be semi-stealth with IWBs. In the final phase, it will be like AMCA, but it doesn't seem as capable as AMCA based on the specs released. The final phase is at least 15 years away. Their evolutionary design path is obviously not suitable for us. But they expect to get their TEDBF equivalent in the first phase between 2025 and 2030, so they have planned way ahead. Naturally, Rafale is the better option for us.
Work On Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter For Indian Navy Aircraft Carriers On Track, Wind Tunnel Test Soon
ADA has worked out two configurations for the TEDBF programme.swarajyamag.com
@randomradio @vstol Jockey you people may be interested ADA is having two different design for TEDBF, a rafale type delta & f18 type.
For the future of the program, the trapezoidal design has to win.
Anyway, it's more like the F-22's wing rather than the SH.
No. But Mig-29K can be transferred for coastal duties and eventually get replaced by TEDBF.
The TEDBF could be viable. If they are to replace only 45 Mig-29Ks, then no.
But the actual requirement is for 90 jets, 45 for each carrier. Furthermore, a coastal fighter requirement can also pop up, we may see at least 2 more squadrons of up to 45 jets here. So an order for 100+ jets with avionics shared with AMCA Mk1 will make it viable. The engine for both will likely be the same as well. So qualifying the airframe and manufacturing a reasonable number of 90+ jets seems realistic.
The thing is their requirements are nowhere near to what we require from the amca. The Korean electronic industry is one of the best in the world so I have no doubt with the radar and avionics but the engine will remain a ge 414 and SoKo is unlikely to develop an engine unlike us. The kfx will be ready by 2026 for induction atleast the mk1 but that will be a 4.5 gen fighter. While the amca.will be 5 gen form the get go and will get 5.5/75 gen capabilities in its mk2 variant so I do have higher hopes for the AMCA..
We have finished developing sensor fusion and is already operational. We now have 4 different IMA based mission computers. 2 for both versions of LCA, 1 for MKI and 1 for Mig-29UPG. The MKI one is operational. And the Mig-29UPG will follow suit pretty soon. Obviously the Jaguar will also get this upgrade in the near future, if it hasn't already.
Su-57 is beyond 5th gen and the upcoming version by 2025 will be unmatched by any other existing fighter jet. Its upcoming engine will be the first opertional engine of its class.
When it comes to avionics, the Russians are developing a true next gen unified avionics suite for the Su-57. Even in the current version its basic backbone network uses fibre optics, which gives it a massive advantage over those with copper wires. The current avionics suite is already more advanced than what's on the F-35.
As for the airframe, its low drag design should allow supercruise even with old engines, while the Russians claim the aircraft is as stealthy as its foreign counterparts. The only ones claiming it's not stealthy are those unrelated to the program. Anyway, it will get all aspect stealth with the new engines.
What makes you say this? As far as I remember, I have not heard of DRDO/ADA testing these techs.
Same ques. What makes you say this? Just curious.
Sensor fusion is an old project. It was started as part of MKI upgrade.
News about Su-57 not being stealthy is incorrect. It has been spread by vested interests. But for all aspect stealth it needs a new engine, which it will get by 2022 and will become operational between 2025 and 2026.
Btw, what is stealth for some is not stealth for others. For example, according to the IAF, since the F-22, F-35, Su-57 etc have vertical fins that can be seen at longer wavelengths, they are not considered stealth jets. According to the IAF, only aircraft like the B-2 and Neuron are stealth jets. Overall, the Su-57 is no different in terms of stealth when compared to the F-22 or F-35.
Actually they have had a lot of assistance from Israelis from their bvr tech to their spj's and even radar all are based on Israeli tech. Heck the J10 was based on the IAI Lavi which was sold by Israelis. The phalcon awacs was to be meant for the PLAAF but the sale was stopped by the Americans. So I do have doubts on how much difference we have in terms of electronics...