U.K - News, Updates & Discussions.

Trust is required, that's all.

Ain't no such thing as trust without leverage. Companies will commit fraud for sure.

You are very happily proposing to invite a criminal underworld in NI. And that will also allow the reemergence of terrorism and a push for sovereignty.

Your only option is to give NI the best deal possible.

Garbage. You're asking a sovereign nation to allow a customs border to be put in the middle of it by a foreign power.

Read post 240 for the benefits NI gets in comparison to your problem-creating solution.

The EU is only a bloc

Exactly the reason why it's not possible. It's a bloc. Merely accepting to make the changes necessary to maintain the GFA is already a big compromise.
 
That is pretty much against articles 4 and 10 of the protocol, since it doesn't respect the UK's sovereignty and is expansionist on behalf of the EU.
There doesn't need to be any customs border if commonsense prevails, but then we are talking about the EU.

So what is your solution to the problem? I don't think you can have open borders and an independent UK trade policy. EU and WTO will force a customs check somewhere, either between NI and UK or NI and RoI (thereby violating the GFA). What is your proposal?

We can wait out the democrats and we have our own lobbies in the US too. However, the UK is not going to implement a hard border there regardless, but the EU could force ROI to, in which case, we didn't break the GFA.

Is the UK in a position to potentially wait out 8 years? Democrats, especially the establishment types like Biden and Pelosi, are very upset at Brexit and will not negotiate in good faith at all. I don't think putting a "soft" border will fly either, Democrats in the US and EU officials will cry foul.

Additionally, even if the EU is the one to technically violate the GFA, no other Western power will really reject the UK's culpability. The GFA is being questioned because of Brexit, and the UK has an obligation to uphold it. For example, people don't say Tupac was killed by septic shock and blood loss, they say he was killed from being shot. The shot, in this analogy, being the Brexit vote.
 
So what is your solution to the problem? I don't think you can have open borders and an independent UK trade policy. EU and WTO will force a customs check somewhere, either between NI and UK or NI and RoI (thereby violating the GFA). What is your proposal?



Is the UK in a position to potentially wait out 8 years? Democrats, especially the establishment types like Biden and Pelosi, are very upset at Brexit and will not negotiate in good faith at all. I don't think putting a "soft" border will fly either, Democrats in the US and EU officials will cry foul.

Additionally, even if the EU is the one to technically violate the GFA, no other Western power will really reject the UK's culpability. The GFA is being questioned because of Brexit, and the UK has an obligation to uphold it. For example, people don't say Tupac was killed by septic shock and blood loss, they say he was killed from being shot. The shot, in this analogy, being the Brexit vote.
The most sensible proposal is a trade deal that doesn't involve a customs check. That said, preserving the integrity of the single market is an EU problem, not a UK problem.

The Dems can't get in a for a year and Trump can use an executive order to pass a trade deal through congress, as Pence has already stated they could. The UK will honour the GFA, but it will not honour every EU desire. The EU is trying to leverage everything off the GFA, we've made it clear that won't work, so the ball's in their court now.
 
Ain't no such thing as trust without leverage. Companies will commit fraud for sure.

You are very happily proposing to invite a criminal underworld in NI. And that will also allow the reemergence of terrorism and a push for sovereignty.

Your only option is to give NI the best deal possible.



Read post 240 for the benefits NI gets in comparison to your problem-creating solution.



Exactly the reason why it's not possible. It's a bloc. Merely accepting to make the changes necessary to maintain the GFA is already a big compromise.
Well we aren't being leveraged by someone we don't trust.

Nobody needs to invite a criminal underworld to NI.

The best deal possible for NI is full access to the UK market without customs borders, since more of their exports go there than the EU.

It's a bloc but we're a sovereign nation state and we aren't having any borders imposed within us by a foreign power. Suppose the EU made a deal with India but it wanted a customs border around Kashmir to stop Pakistani tupperware getting in.
 
The most sensible proposal is a trade deal that doesn't involve a customs check.

How does that work?
Well we aren't being leveraged by someone we don't trust.

Nobody needs to invite a criminal underworld to NI.

The best deal possible for NI is full access to the UK market without customs borders, since more of their exports go there than the EU.

It's a bloc but we're a sovereign nation state and we aren't having any borders imposed within us by a foreign power. Suppose the EU made a deal with India but it wanted a customs border around Kashmir to stop Pakistani tupperware getting in.

With the NI protocol, NI gets full access to the UK market.
 
The most sensible proposal is a trade deal that doesn't involve a customs check. That said, preserving the integrity of the single market is an EU problem, not a UK problem.
How does that work?

Yes I would be delighted to see your proposal.

I think preserving the integrity of the single EU market is a UK problem considering the EU won't sign a FTA or any agreement with the UK without resolving the GFA. This is what my earlier posts were mainly referring to - the EU will not make things simple or convenient for the UK as it is in their interest for the UK to economically suffer and politically fracture.

It's a bloc but we're a sovereign nation state and we aren't having any borders imposed within us by a foreign power.

They aren't obligated to give the UK a trade deal, and the UK's trade deal with the US (& potentially peace in NI) depends on a deal with the EU.

The Dems can't get in a for a year and Trump can use an executive order to pass a trade deal through congress, as Pence has already stated they could. The UK will honour the GFA, but it will not honour every EU desire. The EU is trying to leverage everything off the GFA, we've made it clear that won't work, so the ball's in their court now.

The election is happening in less than 45 days my man, & Biden is widely projected to win and take office in January. Can you share where Pence stated that? To my knowledge, Executive Orders explicitly can't be used to enact Free Trade Agreements, that is a right held exclusively by Congress. The President can withdraw from and negotiate new trade deals, but only Congress can ratify deals - which the Democrat-led House stated they wouldn't if GFA was violated.

The ball is not the the EU's court - are you forgetting who needs who? It's the UK that needs trade agreements with other Western nations, not the other way around. The EU is totally fine with the UK crashing out of the union and basically voiding the GFA in the process - the EU won't face any international repercussions.

I think the only other solution would be to renegotiate the GFA itself with Ireland, but is that even possible?
 
Brexit: NI told to start work on checkpoints at sea ports
Stephen Walker September 18, 2020

UK and EU flag flying in Westminster

UK and EU flag flying in Westminster

A letter from the UK government to Stormont's Agriculture Department instructs it to start work on check-points at NI's sea ports without delay.

The letter, seen by BBC News NI, says it is critical checks are in place, stating such moves are in accordance with the Northern Ireland protocol.

Last week Agriculture Minister Edwin Poots said he wanted to pause the work on food and animal controls.


1600440145519.png
The letter seen by the BBC is from UK Environment Secretary George Eustice. | PA Media


It was sent to the most senior civil servant in Stormont's Agriculture Department.

Mr Eustice writes: "It is my expectation that your department will procure such facilities in accordance with obligations of the Northern Ireland Protocol."

It adds: "Delivery is critical to mitigate risks to food security, including potentially security of supply, cost to the taxpayer and value for money.

"Compliance is necessary for the continued well-being of people, businesses and communities in Northern Ireland."

Mr Eustice states that the frequency and level of checks are part of the discussions with the EU.

He states that it is government policy to "minimise checks within the spirit of the Northern Ireland Protocol".

The letter was sent by Environment Secretary George Eustice
The letter ends: "My view is that it is now the role of your department to procure the facilities for agri-food checks without delay "

Mr Poots had previously said he wanted to pause the work at sea ports until he had received clarity, but now the work will go ahead.

Earlier this week he confirmed to the BBC that his department had received a letter from Mr Eustice and the UK department was paying for the work at Northern Ireland's ports.

He said that work would now commence.

In a statement this week, Northern Ireland's Agriculture Department said: "There is a binding international agreement passed by Westminster to implement the Northern Ireland protocol.

"DAERA officials are working to implement points of entry in order to meet those requirements as set out by the Defra minister and the UK command paper, The UK's Approach to the Northern Ireland Protocol.

"Approved points of entry are a legal requirement for the purposes of protecting public health, securing safe food supply and protecting animal and plant health."

Tenders for the work at a number of sea ports have just been made public and bids are to be made by later this month.

It is estimated that the work could cost about £40m.

===========================================================================================================
Source: BBC
===========================================================================================================

Irish Sea customs border it is.
 
Brexit: NI told to start work on checkpoints at sea ports
Stephen Walker September 18, 2020

UK and EU flag flying in Westminster

UK and EU flag flying in Westminster

A letter from the UK government to Stormont's Agriculture Department instructs it to start work on check-points at NI's sea ports without delay.

The letter, seen by BBC News NI, says it is critical checks are in place, stating such moves are in accordance with the Northern Ireland protocol.

Last week Agriculture Minister Edwin Poots said he wanted to pause the work on food and animal controls.


View attachment 17781
The letter seen by the BBC is from UK Environment Secretary George Eustice. | PA Media


It was sent to the most senior civil servant in Stormont's Agriculture Department.

Mr Eustice writes: "It is my expectation that your department will procure such facilities in accordance with obligations of the Northern Ireland Protocol."

It adds: "Delivery is critical to mitigate risks to food security, including potentially security of supply, cost to the taxpayer and value for money.

"Compliance is necessary for the continued well-being of people, businesses and communities in Northern Ireland."

Mr Eustice states that the frequency and level of checks are part of the discussions with the EU.

He states that it is government policy to "minimise checks within the spirit of the Northern Ireland Protocol".

The letter was sent by Environment Secretary George Eustice
The letter ends: "My view is that it is now the role of your department to procure the facilities for agri-food checks without delay "

Mr Poots had previously said he wanted to pause the work at sea ports until he had received clarity, but now the work will go ahead.

Earlier this week he confirmed to the BBC that his department had received a letter from Mr Eustice and the UK department was paying for the work at Northern Ireland's ports.

He said that work would now commence.

In a statement this week, Northern Ireland's Agriculture Department said: "There is a binding international agreement passed by Westminster to implement the Northern Ireland protocol.

"DAERA officials are working to implement points of entry in order to meet those requirements as set out by the Defra minister and the UK command paper, The UK's Approach to the Northern Ireland Protocol.

"Approved points of entry are a legal requirement for the purposes of protecting public health, securing safe food supply and protecting animal and plant health."

Tenders for the work at a number of sea ports have just been made public and bids are to be made by later this month.

It is estimated that the work could cost about £40m.

===========================================================================================================
Source: BBC
===========================================================================================================

Irish Sea customs border it is.
How does that cater to goods coming in from RoI?
 
How does that cater to goods coming in from RoI?

My cursory understanding is that the EU will want checks on goods traveling between NI and UK, thereby cutting the importance of the flow of goods between RoI and NI out of the equation entirely. There will also be tariffs on UK to NI goods that are at risk of onward movement to the EU (which can be refunded if they can prove they won't be).
 
My cursory understanding is that the EU will want checks on goods traveling between NI and UK, thereby cutting the importance of the flow of goods between RoI and NI out of the equation entirely. There will also be tariffs on UK to NI goods that are at risk of onward movement to the EU (which can be refunded if they can prove they won't be).
This doesn't take into account the flow of goods between RoI & the UK.

Whichever way one sees it, the UK is doomed. Reminds me of the Doctrine of Lapse the EIC implemented in colonial India in the early to mid 19th century which was one of the prime reasons for the 1st war of Independence.

In other words you're damned if you do & damned if you don't. Just like the Doctrine of Lapse. Just like Karma. What goes around comes around ,Paddy. I'm loving it.
@BMD
 
Yes I would be delighted to see your proposal.

I think preserving the integrity of the single EU market is a UK problem considering the EU won't sign a FTA or any agreement with the UK without resolving the GFA. This is what my earlier posts were mainly referring to - the EU will not make things simple or convenient for the UK as it is in their interest for the UK to economically suffer and politically fracture.
We're not bothered whether they sign an FTA or not. No deal, no money, open border.


They aren't obligated to give the UK a trade deal, and the UK's trade deal with the US (& potentially peace in NI) depends on a deal with the EU.
And we aren't obliged to give them the £60bn they asked for or their sea border. The trade deal with the US only hinges on keeping the NI/ROI border open and we won't close it and it's very unlikely ROI will either, which puts the ball back in the EU's court.


The election is happening in less than 45 days my man, & Biden is widely projected to win and take office in January. Can you share where Pence stated that? To my knowledge, Executive Orders explicitly can't be used to enact Free Trade Agreements, that is a right held exclusively by Congress. The President can withdraw from and negotiate new trade deals, but only Congress can ratify deals - which the Democrat-led House stated they wouldn't if GFA was violated.
It starts then but the US has very drawn out elections, Trump's term finishes in January 2021. They have fixed 4 year terms.

The ball is not the the EU's court - are you forgetting who needs who? It's the UK that needs trade agreements with other Western nations, not the other way around. The EU is totally fine with the UK crashing out of the union and basically voiding the GFA in the process - the EU won't face any international repercussions.

I think the only other solution would be to renegotiate the GFA itself with Ireland, but is that even possible?
Not really, we're happy to save £60bn and trade WTO. £60bn pays for a lot of tariffs, equally we'll rake in massive revenues from tariffing the much larger amount of goods coming the other way, and or retaking shares in our internal market. E.g. Three times as many cars come from the EU to the UK as go back, most of them German.
How does that work?
Carry on trading as we have been.

With the NI protocol, NI gets full access to the UK market.
No, because the customs border would work both ways. How else would we know what's coming from the EU and not NI?
 
Maybe the Macron can help by teaching us Arabic.
I don't think so. Had Corbyn come to power, you would be encouraged to not only cultivate a better understanding of Islam but in the not so distant future, you'd be encouraged to adopt Islam as well with due incentives for it. No need to rejoice at Corbyn's loss. The Party in Labour is still around. You'd get better samples than Corbyn. This was just the teaser.

In the meanwhile, as a citizen of a multi cultural state, you ought to be studying Islam on your own for a better understanding of it. So what if you haven't celebrated mass on Sundays since ages or gone for a confession or even forgotten Hail Mary. Food for thought, Paddy.
 
In the meanwhile, as a citizen of a multi cultural state, you ought to be studying Islam on your own for a better understanding of it. So what if you haven't celebrated mass on Sundays since ages or gone for a confession or even forgotten Hail Mary. Food for thought, Paddy.
I've been studying Islam for some time, just not as a follower.