Their F-47-equivalent hasn't been released yet though. The J-36 and J-50 (J-XDS) are not as important in comparison. So they have at least 2 more independent programs at the minimum.
United State's NGAD & F/A-XX Fighter Programs : Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Innominate
- Start date
Their F-47-equivalent hasn't been released yet though. The J-36 and J-50 (J-XDS) are not as important in comparison. So they have at least 2 more independent programs at the minimum.
HUMOR- Like trump said, F-47 will be most advanced, lethal, capable jet, so stealthy that it won't be revealed to public in ceremony actually, but left to be spotted randomly. No static display, no fly-by, no press events, no documentaries, interviews, etc.
YF-23's designer's conceptual view of F-47 NGAD:
aviationweek.com
F-22 is 62 ft. long & the drawing is quoted at 61 ft. which i don't is possible for a 6gen specs with bigger better engine, more fuel, weapons, equipment.
NGAD should be expected to be bigger than F-22. So, following is comparison with F-22 after comparing cockpit.
YF-23 Designer Offers His Take On Boeing’s F-47 NGAD Configuration | Aviation Week Network
Renowned aircraft designer Darold Cummings explores questions raised by Boeing’s F-47 NGAD design.
aviationweek.com
F-22 is 62 ft. long & the drawing is quoted at 61 ft. which i don't is possible for a 6gen specs with bigger better engine, more fuel, weapons, equipment.
NGAD should be expected to be bigger than F-22. So, following is comparison with F-22 after comparing cockpit.
Artist Rodrigo Avella & some others made a CAD earlier speculated to be tail-less F/A-XX with canards.
Almost same model w/o canards have been depicted as NGAD, sometimes with rudders.
Comparing it with F-22, equalized at cockpit, looks like following:
Almost same model w/o canards have been depicted as NGAD, sometimes with rudders.
Comparing it with F-22, equalized at cockpit, looks like following:
@randomradio @Ashwin @Rajput Lion
F-35 is "Stealth"
F-22 is "Stealth+"
F-47 is "Stealth++" with nearly 2000-km combat radius
CCAs are "Stealth", with better combat radius than F-35
I already posted it here: Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis
Anyways, this is now officially confirmed that F-22 is more stealthy than F-35(especially post its MLU) while F-47 is going to be an order of magnitude more stealthy than the Raptor.
Suck it F-35 fanboys
: @Innominate, @Optimist, @Spitfire6, @zinswinsin
Yeah, weirdly I don't understand how the NGAD plans to survive with less stealthy CCAs around. Maybe it plans to hide within them. And these CCAs are unlikely to operate in the depths of China alongside the NGAD with that range.
Gen. Mike Hostage On The F-35; No Growlers Needed When War Starts [LONG ARTICLE best read at URL]It was already publicly known in 1990s documentaries.
06 Jun 2014 COLIN CLARK
"... “The F-35 doesn’t have the altitude, doesn’t have the speed [of the F-22], but it can beat the F-22 in stealth.” But stealth — the ability to elude or greatly complicate an enemy’s ability to find and destroy an aircraft using a combination of design, tactics and technology — is not a magic pill, Hostage reminds us...."
Stealth has the H/w geometric RCS aspect & the EW S/w aspect like signa processing, frequency hopping, etc.
F-22 with export ban has 10x lower RCS than exported F-35 JSF. But F-35 being a later jet obviously has some better things like sensors, glass cockpit, HMDS, avionics & EW, etc.
I already posted it here: Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis
Anyways, this is now officially confirmed that F-22 is more stealthy than F-35(especially post its MLU) while F-47 is going to be an order of magnitude more stealthy than the Raptor.
Suck it F-35 fanboys
It will be interesting to see what the F-22 Super will be like. A derivative of the APG-85 for sure. And an extra 15-20 years of life.
Hostage makes it clear F-35 beats the F-22 in stealth.
Just to context to the CCA. They are also designed to be controlled and work with F-35. The Ghost bat seen in the US CCA comp for example.
I think the picture is a bit misleading on the CCA. It says Air Superiority. Although this could be one, there are more important missions for it.
It also needs to be remembered, these publications are how they talk to and influence the US Congress/government. They like shiny objects and they have the money. Air Superiority sounds so much better than SIGINT.
It's kinda the job of the CCAs to take attention away from the NGAD so it can do its job.
If they succeed in getting the economics right & make it truly attritable, the 1,300-km combat radius can essentially mean a 2,600-km one-way range. That's plenty to support NGAD if the CCAs are fine with not making it back.
Last edited:
>Did he quote RCS of both jets?
> Being an Indian techie, i don't have any profit/loss in which is more stealthy F-22/35.
> I respect Mr. Gilmary Michael Hostage III, who did B.Sc. in Mechanical engineering.
Otherwise entire world saw how poorly Pakistani forces high officials explained things & couldn't answer press questions.
> In every country 10s of 1000s of citizens are also technically qualified, so some forum members also could be.
> "combination of design, tactics and technology" itself means RCS + Flight profile or jet's orientation + EW & Mr. Hostage explained the EW part, as F135 generates more electricity than F119 & is getting ECU also. Otherwise since beginning F-22 RCS is quoted 0.00015 sqm & F-35 RCS as 0.0015 sqm, 10x more. I also explained in past what things in F-35 skin cause 10x more RCS - more surface discontinuities, bumps, ladder, IFRP, canopy arc, bigger LG door, fixed EOTS, etc.
> F-22 introduced sensor fusion, both by self's sensors & networked assets, which F-35 improved in sensor H/w & avionics S/w. But airframe geometry cannot be changed or it'll become a new jet.
> But leaving technical aside also, an export product cannot be allowed to be better than domestic one.
> Both jets are going under MLUs to be 5.5gen. We have slides, infographic on F-35 upgrades, but at least IDK that much about F-22 MLUs.
> Additionally, day before yesterday POTUS Donald Trump announced F-55 a.k.a F-22 Super. I shared some videos on USAF thread.
Last edited:
Hostage is a USAF General who was in charged of F-35 program who has access to classified info of F-35 and F-22 he doesn't have to give the public any RCS numbers if he says the F-35 beats the F-22 in stealth then it beats it in stealth. That's it. He is in the know he saw the numbers so his claim is true.>Did he quote RCS of both jets?
> Being an Indian techie, i don't have any profit/loss in which is more stealthy F-22/35.
> I respect Mr. Gilmary Michael Hostage III, who did B.Sc. in Mechanical engineering.
Otherwise entire world saw how poorly Pakistani forces high officials explained things & couldn't answer press questions.
> In every country 10s of 1000s of citizens are also technically qualified, so some forum members also could be.
> "combination of design, tactics and technology" itself means RCS + Flight profile or jet's orientation + EW & Mr. Hostage explained the EW part, as F135 generates more electricity than F119 & is getting ECU also. Otherwise since beginning F-22 RCS is quoted 0.00015 sqm & F-35 RCS as 0.0015 sqm, 10x more. I also explained in past what things in F-35 skin cause 10x more RCS - more surface discontinuities, bumps, ladder, IFRP, canopy arc, bigger LG door, fixed EOTS, etc.
> F-22 introduced sensor fusion, both by self's sensors & networked assets, which F-35 improved in sensor H/w & avionics S/w. But airframe geometry cannot be changed or it'll become a new jet.
> But leaving technical aside also, an export product cannot be allowed to be better than domestic one.
> Both jets are going under MLUs to be 5.5gen. We have slides, infographic on F-35 upgrades, but at least IDK that much about F-22 MLUs.
> Additionally, day before yesterday POTUS Donald Trump announced F-55 a.k.a F-22 Super. I shared some videos on USAF thread.
> Over decades, different people become "in charge" every few years. Their statements can change with changing technology, political regime, geopolitics, business, etc.
> The 1990s ATF & JSF documentaries & videos have shown chief engineers, test pilots, program managers, much more qualified that Mr. Hostage & also air-chiefs, admirals, generals of that decade. The funny thing is that all these people were divided on both for/against sides.
> POTUS/Govt. can authorise or restrict generals, admirals, air-chiefs, CEOs, journalists, etc depending upon business interests & security concerns. So F-35 can be CLEVERY PRAISED TO INCREASE SALES PITCH (currently indicated towards India & others). Donald Trump is calling many presidents as likeable or friendly whom earlier regimes considered hostile or arch enemy.
> "Having access" to info & deciding what to tell others are 2 different things, depending upon factors i mentioned above.
RIGHT, 100s of 1000s of qualified citizens in USA, India & globally can use their knowledge & experince to comprehend technical statements by a B.Sc graduate. You can't expect world NOT to analyse.
> So wether he quotes it or not that's his choice but he already said "combination of RCS, tactics, technology... it's not magic pill
", that's enough. Whoever can't understand technologies & statements, it's their problem.> BTW, it doesn't affect India. But USA is democracy of tax paying citizens or totalitarian autocracy?
However,
> USA is not afraid to flaunt its tech briefly bcoz by continious R&D it has remained 1gen ahead of world.
> The public numbers for brief idea were already given. And also stated like F-35 is like golf ball, F-22 is like bumble-bee.
> Citizens will not elect a political regime which doesn't briefly tell them how taxes are used.
> F-35 JSF with better radar could target F-22 using networked info, but w/o n/w info F-22 ATF should emerge as winner in BVR in at least 50-70% times & certainly in WVR.
> But if F-35 is CLAIMED ALL-ASPECT stealthier than F-22 then it'll backfire on F-22, Lockheed Martin, the political regime which funded it. They'll have to retire all F-22s a.s.a.p., citizens will start street protests.
> Among 8 billion+ Earths population, 1 or few people quoting or not doesn't change natural facts of physics, chemistry, maths.
> For 50 years of a product, the aspects of technical, business, geopolitics, international agenda, etc are related, change with time & have to be matched.
> F-22 is export-banned ATF & F-35 is exportable JSF, both with certain advantages & disadvantages, that's all, it's not about taking full side of a product. But people like advertisers, media house, journalists, beneficiaries might take full side.
> Point wise please cite what is nonsense?It's nonsense, but I like the colours.
> From tech PoV, you're most welcome to politely discuss any aspect, like aircraft features visible on the outside.
> Red color is usually used for caution/alarming or extremely important or -ve kind of points. Green/Blue can be used for factual or agreeable or +ve points.
At $15M a pop, the USAF is not making these CCAs expendable. It's possible the CCAs for NGAD will be a step higher, while the ones they showed off are more suitable for the F-35.