United State's NGAD & F/A-XX Fighter Programs : Updates and Discussions
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Such wing shape, the trailing edge angle b/w Diamond & Delta is called Cropped-Diamond.
I also think that this could be the final config, especially if planning a Naval version, but then why are they hiding it in the posters rather than revealing like the B-21? Perhaps they are planning a grand ceremony & party.
They developed XA-100/101/102/103 which would be common to both AF & Navy jets i guess. So the size difference b/w them may not be too much.
It is difficut to say if they'll have 1-engine version like F-35. But their carriers are already the biggest in world. They won't shy away from modifying them a bit like resizing the elevators, door-ways, etc, or even building a custom new carrier. Some day a futuristic carrier will be made.
That's the confusing part - exportable Vs securing generations to come. They regretted giving source-code of F-35 to Israel & getting blocked completely thereafter
. So we need to wait & see. But unless USAF makes it clear explicitly, they won't rely only on 1 manned jet & UCAVs.
Ok but who? EU won't stall their GCAP, FCAS.
May be Saudi Arab.
I sincerely hope we won't have AHCA import tender.
May be LM, NG demanded way too much money
That GIF model has intakes on top which an agile jet can't have. Its exhausts were looked like that of F-35 rather than F-22.
Fitting good internal payoad + DEW looks difficult.
May be LM, NG demanded way too much money
That GIF model has intakes on top which an agile jet can't have. Its exhausts were looked like that of F-35 rather than F-22.
Fitting good internal payoad + DEW looks difficult.
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No LM half a$$ed it with its design.
USAF knew it would be Boeing when it saw its design USAF was not going to make the same mistake it did during the YF-22 and YF-23 competition where they selected the safer/more common fighter than the exotic one. Boeing is using its Bird of Prey concept in its F-47 design which wow'd the USAF. I think LM is too busy with the F-35 program that it didn't put a lot of effort in its design.
Boeing did everything right, a new "evolutionary" design AND invested heavily in having the manufacturing plants ready to go which also wow'd the USAF which is why there is talk about 2029. After losing the F-35 contract Boeing had decades to prepare for this which paid off however I'm starting to wonder if all this investment was the cause of the civilian sectors woes. I wouldn't be surprise if Boeing also wins USN F/XX competition.
LM chose the cheaper way. NG quit. So Boeing was the only viable alternative for NGAD.
Lock Mart quit F/A-XX too for the same reason. My money's on NG, not Boeing.
This time, both the USAF and USN aren't going for "cheap". I guess that announces the beginning of superpower competition and a new cold war once again.
If NG wins F/A-XX, then the primary air superiority fighter & primary naval fighter will be from Boeing & Grumman respectively. Where have we seen that before...
(McDonnell Douglas merged with Boeing)
USAF in 2023 said LM is evolutionary and Boeing was ambitious. It was cleared back then Boeing impressed USAF with its design taking from its Bird of Prey tech demonstrator. NG showed its NGAD CG and B-21 during a promo and it was huge.
Intakes on top actually give reduced RCS. It's better than having ut on the side or the bottom. Reduces heat signature too. I guess boeing is targeting stealth in the electro-optical domain rather than purely against radar.May be LM, NG demanded way too much money
That GIF model has intakes on top which an agile jet can't have. Its exhausts were looked like that of F-35 rather than F-22.
Fitting good internal payoad + DEW looks difficult.
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"Exotic looks" may not be a technically better thing always. We have to analyse them technically.
We don't know how the entire body of F-47 looks like, how the competitor TDs look. Trump said this is X-jet, not the production model. We see many small difference b/w YF-22 & F-22, X-35 & F-35. So we should wait till complete body of XF-47 is revealed.
Looking at 1990s documentaries showing ATF test pilots, design team & program managers, both jets had +/- points. The YF-23 certainly had certain advantages like better top speed, perhaps lower RCS also. However, F-22 was more agile with TVC which was important to deal with RoW agile jets. Remaining exact details & reasons are trade secrets, will never come out, technical or political.
So in next 10 years there will be many documentaries & interviews on NGAD competition which will reveal lots of things.
Looking at videos & articles on aircraft design, an upward tilted dihedral wing is for more roll stability, like used in airliners, while downward tilted anhedral wing like on Harrier jet creates instability.
A modern fighter jet is said to be inherently unstable to be flown by digital FBW-FCS. So although gull-wings are not secret, many aircrafts had it, but what USA learned from Bird-of-Prey is obviously secret. It had very short wings.
The inverted winglet can provide -
- rudder/yaw function
- shock compression lift in supersonic speeds like in XB-70 Valkyrie.
- In cross winds, the roll tendency would be reduced.
- It covers the exhausts in certain horizontal plane angles.
- But it'll increase RCS from certain angles & decrease it from other angles.
So overall, a compund wing is mix of +/- points.
Yes but they said F-47 will be agile too, so no top intakes. And the posters are heavily edited, the camera angle is elevated, which could be hiding the intakes below. They showed the canard root but not the complete canard.
The complete wing can be anything- Compound like Bird-of-Prey, Diamond, Lambda, etc.
RCS & IRS are not related or have any inter-dependency. Both are tried to be reduced in their own ways, in F-22 & F-35 too. So same wshould/ill be done in any future jet too.
If NG wins F/A-XX, then the primary air superiority fighter & primary naval fighter will be from Boeing & Grumman respectively. Where have we seen that before...
(McDonnell Douglas merged with Boeing)
Yep, history repeating itself. The B-21 is from NG too. Their low cost SEF, F-35, is from LM. And let's not forget LM's SR-72 replacement for 71.
It's possible Boeing was assured of winning one contract at the minimum, so they got started on a production line early, in case they were not the only viable candidate, what we call a single-vendor situation in India for the F-47. But Boeing could win both.
What was cleared was the EMD contract, it's to develop the production model. TD has been flying since 2020.
It's expected to be inducted in 4-5 years.
@Picdelamirand-oil
theaviationist.com
A clue about NGAD being a TEF. KC-46 can support TEF from longer ranges.
Uncertain Future for the U.S. Air Force Next-Gen Stealth Tanker
A new U.S. Air Force analysis recommends continuing the development of NGAD, as well as terminating the NGAS stealth tanker program which was supposed to
theaviationist.com
A clue about NGAD being a TEF. KC-46 can support TEF from longer ranges.
The poster model X-jet could be modified version with 2 engines, canards & different wing config yet to be fully revealed.
A public ceremony would probably reveal the production IOC version.
With such heavily edited poster, without the hidden rear half, it is difficult to say if the jet would look similar to Bird-of-Prey with canards or F/A-XX advertised so far, or combination of both.
Following is the approximate scaled comparison of Bird-of-Prey Vs F-22. For payload, fuel, range more than F-22, the actual NGAD fuselage could be roughly double BoP's fuselage.
Following is F/A-XX concept comparison with poster model:
A public ceremony would probably reveal the production IOC version.
With such heavily edited poster, without the hidden rear half, it is difficult to say if the jet would look similar to Bird-of-Prey with canards or F/A-XX advertised so far, or combination of both.
Following is the approximate scaled comparison of Bird-of-Prey Vs F-22. For payload, fuel, range more than F-22, the actual NGAD fuselage could be roughly double BoP's fuselage.
Following is F/A-XX concept comparison with poster model:
F-22's F119 engines have 156 KN wet thrust giving it wet T/STOW = 1.1
F-35's F135 engine have 191 KN wet thrust giving it wet T/STOW = 0.76 for C & 0.87 for A models.
If NGAD's A-10X engine is assumed 230 KN wet thrust, that's 230/156=47.4% increase over F-22. Let's adjust it to 234 KN or 50% for easy number. That means maintaining the same wet T/STOW of 1.1 the NGAD's STOW can be 50% more than F-22 or 29*1.5=43.5 tons & MTOW of 38*1.5=57 tons.
So volume can be assumed 50% more for easy understanding for now.
Considering same airframe density, a 14% increase in L*B*H each gives 48% increase in volume.
But if height of airframe is kept same then 22% increase in width & length gives 48% more volume.
In terms of F-22 it would look like following bigger F-22, which would look same from top but stretched sideways from front/back. May be this can give some idea about NGAD's size.
F-35's F135 engine have 191 KN wet thrust giving it wet T/STOW = 0.76 for C & 0.87 for A models.
If NGAD's A-10X engine is assumed 230 KN wet thrust, that's 230/156=47.4% increase over F-22. Let's adjust it to 234 KN or 50% for easy number. That means maintaining the same wet T/STOW of 1.1 the NGAD's STOW can be 50% more than F-22 or 29*1.5=43.5 tons & MTOW of 38*1.5=57 tons.
So volume can be assumed 50% more for easy understanding for now.
Considering same airframe density, a 14% increase in L*B*H each gives 48% increase in volume.
But if height of airframe is kept same then 22% increase in width & length gives 48% more volume.
In terms of F-22 it would look like following bigger F-22, which would look same from top but stretched sideways from front/back. May be this can give some idea about NGAD's size.
I predict Boeing. They had decades to prepare for this and it paid off with NGAD.
