LOC Flare up: Related news and Discussions

[randomradio]

1. Won't land in FATF blacklist. That is pretty much a given.

Who do you think will vote for Pakistan in October? They need 3 votes to stay out and those were China, Turkey and Malaysia. This time I don't think Malaysia will vote for Pakistan. China's going to have to find another country. So there's a chance, unless the US themselves plan to keep Pakistan out of FATF anyway. Does China get two votes due to Hong Kong?

I think the October FATF meet should be our last gambit with the aim of getting Pakistan into the blacklist. If Malaysia votes against and Pakistan still escapes, then we can be sure that the FATF is completely useless to deal with them. They can stay in the gray list forever after that.

2. Iran does not have the resources to undergo changes of large magnitude. Saudis have.

A Su-30SM costs half that of the LCA Mk1A. This is in fact the best time for Iran to modernise.

Russian Defense Ministry Signs Contract for Modern Multi-Role Fighter Jets

The Russian Defense Ministry signed a contract Monday with aircraft manufacturer Irkut for the delivery of eight Su-30SM multi-role fighter jets, and teed up a larger contract for up to 75 of the military planes, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov said, state-run news agency RIA Novosti reported.

www.themoscowtimes.com

The Defense Ministry is also negotiating a follow-on contract to a 66 billion ruble ($1 billion) agreement with the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) for 48 of the newer Su-35 heavy multi-role fighter jets.

At the MAKS air show held outside Moscow in late August, UAC CEO Yury Slyusar said his company would sign a 100 billion ruble ($1.5 billion) contract with the Defense Ministry for another 48 Su-35 fighters by the end of this year.

That's absolutely peanuts. $21M for the first contract and $31M for the second one.

Russia’s Most Effective Fighter? Defence Ministry Continues to Place Large Orders for Elite Su-30SM Air Superiority Jets - New Batch of 36 Incoming

With production lines for the Su-34 strike fighter and Su-35 ‘4++ Generation’ air superiority fighter working to manufacture approximately 200 fighters since 2014

militarywatchmagazine.com

The Russian Defense Ministry is reportedly planning to contract 36 of the air superiority jets from United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) for approximately 70 billion rubles ($1 billion).

This contract is for the Su-30SM1, with the Su-35's radar and engine. It comes up to only $28M per unit.

Not to mention, there's the advantage of the rial(toman)-ruble trade to make use of. At the very least I see them making tranche purchases. And anyway, a large purchase will also take a long period of time and would be a better deal if the Iranians get full control over the aircraft.

3. Leverage over Pakistan. Saudis will never leave a chance to gain that over Pakistan.

Shouldn't we in turn gain leverage over the Saudis over the next 5 years? Weak oil prices, big market, EV threat etc.

What I have been trying to drive in to the fanboys and fangirls over the past few days.

Saudis act through Sunni Baluch groups which operate in Sistan. Iran retaliates using BLA etc who also get help from Afghanistan. India piggybacks, like the times of support to Northern Alliance. We use our soft power here to meet our objectives.

Unfortunately, people are happy claiming things that are simply not there.

Yeah, but I think this is a whole different topic though. We should continue to keep our image clean by not getting into the BLA and TTP business, as we have been doing. No doubt about that.

The surprise part was the accuracy of Iranian ballistic missiles. The Americans were given enough warning so that they would cover beneath Saddam era sheds.. Still more than a 100 suffered brain injuries.. and concussions and 29 were awarded purple hearts.. lol.. It was no more the era where US soldiers could snore off, being content that Saddam's scuds would just fly overhead because Moslems couldn't master accurate ballistic missiles...

Yeah, that injuries story was a bit weird.

 

[Arsalan123]

Vstol why you are still thinking about awacs situation on feb27? I think this awacs discussion is already over. Vstol you and falcon are professionals.arguments must not turn into heated exchange of words. You two are great source of knowledge. There is no intrusion from iaf 707. Loc is hot. You both needs to calm down. Kindly discuss levina tweet in which she claimed to have destroyed our ballistic missile. I mean it's a total lie. Do you guys think that it's true?

 

[Jaymax]

Vstol why you are still thinking about awacs situation on feb27? I think this awacs discussion is already over. Vstol you and falcon are professionals.arguments must not turn into heated exchange of words. You two are great source of knowledge.

I never thought I’d see the day two senior most members of the forum will be counselled by the likes of Arsalan but here we are

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

I never thought I’d see the day two senior most members of the forum will be counselled by the likes of Arsalan but here we are

Sir , this is nothing

I have seen Retired LT. GENERALS
Engaged in Heated discussions on Twitter

 

[Patriots]

@vstol Jockey @Falcon You both are jewels
please don't fight
we love your updates

 

[indiandragon]

@vstol Jockey @Falcon You both are jewels
please don't fight
we love your updates

Falcon is not at all fighting ... he is just giving the facts... where did you see he is fighting

 

[Hellfire]

Sir ji

For us civilians please just answer One question

Whether Indian Govt and Military
Will DO Something about Pakistan in next 4 years

Sir.

Short answer - No. Whatever we can do, is already being done, right in front of you. Hate being the buzzkill but whether our 'resourceful' OSINTs and respected Veterans like it or not, there is one question that vexes us till date. What do you do with Pakistan even after defeating it militarily?

It is really no use to talk about Classified and Undeclared missions if they dont bring about a Fundamental change to this 7 decade old problem

It never was expected to bring about a fundamental change in behaviour. But the present dispensation rode to power promising to be 'tough' on terror. Optics matter. Now you see an 'expert' on military matter at every nook and corner, claiming access to information from God knows who and what. While anyone who has operated in 'black' will know that the information is limited to just a couple of people and they are hardly the top leadership across the board (who are anyways only informed that an op is being undertaken with no details shared, until and unless the RM/PM wants to witness it in person in this modern era). Compartmentalization is severe.

But then you see ops which were earlier kept off the books, being made public, and citizens considering it a 'strong response'. Have we seen any difference of any significant kind in Pakistan's behaviour in spite of 'Surgical Strikes' and 'Balakote Strikes'? Apart from more public

COVID19 pandemic's economic effects arising out of lockdown in India is already indicating our economic and financial health. We are not yet in a position where we can militarily undertake actions to achieve our objectives.

 

[vstol Jockey]

But then you see ops which were earlier kept off the books, being made public, and citizens considering it a 'strong response'. Have we seen any difference of any significant kind in Pakistan's behaviour in spite of 'Surgical Strikes' and 'Balakote Strikes'? Apart from more public

COVID19 pandemic's economic effects arising out of lockdown in India is already indicating our economic and financial health. We are not yet in a position where we can militarily undertake actions to achieve our objectives.

disagree with you strongly here. Pakistan never got an answer back as hard as it is getting now under this govt which came to power by promising strong actions against Pakistan. I would like you to recall the speech made by Modi in one of the overseas interaction with Indian Diaspora, "Pakistan ek surgical strike say mananaywall nahin hai". So the present dispensation knows the enormity and complexity of task at hand.
Regarding Covid19 effecting our plans, I wish to remind you that even today, except for IN, no other service is in a position to fight a short, swift and decisive battle with Pakistan. They need some more weapons and time to put their plans in action. We need to thank UPA for putting us in such a mess.

What was our economic condition in 1947? UK owed us 1500million pounds. We have never been as strong ever. And what did we do? We still suffer from that mistake and stupidity. What was our condition in 1965? Shastriji used to plough his official residence to cultivate wheat. That is how poor we were as a nation. And what did we achieve in 1965? Was economy a consideration? What was our economic condition in 1971 when we fought on two fronts after Indira having devalued Rupee against Dollar in 1967 to get PL-480 from USA. Why did she nationalise banks in 1972?
Even with covid19, we are in much better shape than we ever have been in any war that we fought.

 

[AbRaj]

Sir.

Short answer - No. Whatever we can do, is already being done, right in front of you. Hate being the buzzkill but whether our 'resourceful' OSINTs and respected Veterans like it or not, there is one question that vexes us till date. What do you do with Pakistan even after defeating it militarily?



.

Seize all WMDs, Disband the military, divide it into smaller and manageable parts and install people friendly to us.
Do No War pacts with these smaller states.

If this is too much to ask, do what US did to Imperial Japan.
Our survival must be of utmost priority.

 

[Yashpatel604]

What could be the reason behind the sudden increased activity of Pakistan Air Force in the last 10 days?

 

[vstol Jockey]

What could be the reason behind the sudden increased activity of Pakistan Air Force in the last 10 days?

They are scared after MOdi tweeted about the death of those five Indian officers & soldiers. They are expecting another surgical strike and this time much bigger in size and strength. It will be delivered.

 

[Hellfire]

@vstol Jockey @Falcon You both are jewels
please don't fight
we love your updates

There is no fight. Chill.

 

[randomradio]

What do you do with Pakistan even after defeating it militarily?

 

[Saaho]

What do you do with Pakistan even after defeating it militarily?

Nothing a little bit of Polonium cann't fix?

 

[Jaymax]

What do you do with Pakistan even after defeating it militarily?

You Balkanise it. Everyone there sulks about the Punjab first policies. A truncated Punjabi nation along with Sindhi, Baloch nations with the nuclear infrastructure removed is a good start. The smaller nations will not have the funds / manpower to militarize heavily the eventual friction among them will ensure they never reach the threat levels they pose today.

 

[Quicksilver]

You Balkanise it. Everyone there sulks about the Punjab first policies. A truncated Punjabi nation along with Sindhi, Baloch nations with the nuclear infrastructure removed is a good start. The smaller nations will not have the funds / manpower to militarize heavily the eventual friction among them will ensure they never reach the threat levels they pose today.

the only threat they pose today is a nuisance at best and a headache at worst. they cant take an inch of india despite being broken in half, their entire existence is wobbly since birth, going from glorifying USA to vilifying them, then arabs now turks and the chinese.
going from suckling at the teets of one super power or the other.
finally selling out their "Paak"stan (meaning pure land) to godless communists just to spite their neighbor.

 

[nair]

Guys!!!! This is a beautiful thread!!!! With high quality posts.....Oflate the quality of the thread has gone down, and we are going to enforce quality discussion....... We are aware of the reason..... and taking it offline........ Please post useful information and debate with content...... We will take this thread to social media for a purpose....... Any low quality posts will result in thread ban..... Please help in keeping the quality high

Report every post which you think is low quality:

 

[Arsalan123]

I still believe that we can overturn things this time .I feel that policy makers has changed their policy and this time, india might see unusual circumstances. everyone is singing the song of friendship. Two friends, always together. we sail together, we train together, we fly together! A Friendship Higher than the Heights of Himalayas and deeper than the depths of Arabian Sea.

Seize all WMDs, Disband the military, divide it into smaller and manageable parts and install people friendly to us.
Do No War pacts with these smaller states.

If this is too much to ask, do what US did to Imperial Japan.
Our survival must be of utmost priority.

you have to cross the border first. seize all wmds. This looks good only in written form. reality is totally different.

 

[Hellfire]

You Balkanise it. Everyone there sulks about the Punjab first policies. A truncated Punjabi nation along with Sindhi, Baloch nations with the nuclear infrastructure removed is a good start. The smaller nations will not have the funds / manpower to militarize heavily the eventual friction among them will ensure they never reach the threat levels they pose today.

It will Balkanize. That creates a major power vacuum with weak states & a thriving fundamentalistic society. Instead of reducing our costs, we will increase them, because either we will have to physically occupy them to stabilize them a la US in Iraq (with high costs and nearly 0 chance of stability) or we will have to see militant groups gain traction within the poor fundamentalistic society and they divert this large pool to us in Kashmir over Jihad. This is the question that we do not have an answer to. How to reduce our costs.

The present course of action is the least costly option out there.

Out of curiosity, why is the does the background image of this forum has a map which shows POK and GB in Pakistan and Aksai Chin in China? Is the forum owned by Pak Chinese supporters?

View attachment 15898View attachment 15898

Good catch

@Ashwin

Nothing a little bit of Polonium cann't fix?

How?

 

[Hellfire]

Seize all WMDs, Disband the military, divide it into smaller and manageable parts and install people friendly to us.
Do No War pacts with these smaller states.

If this is too much to ask, do what US did to Imperial Japan.
Our survival must be of utmost priority.

Part is there. Remaining .. answered above

disagree with you strongly here. Pakistan never got an answer back as hard as it is getting now under this govt which came to power by promising strong actions against Pakistan. I would like you to recall the speech made by Modi in one of the overseas interaction with Indian Diaspora, "Pakistan ek surgical strike say mananaywall nahin hai". So the present dispensation knows the enormity and complexity of task at hand.
Regarding Covid19 effecting our plans, I wish to remind you that even today, except for IN, no other service is in a position to fight a short, swift and decisive battle with Pakistan. They need some more weapons and time to put their plans in action. We need to thank UPA for putting us in such a mess.

What was our economic condition in 1947? UK owed us 1500million pounds. We have never been as strong ever. And what did we do? We still suffer from that mistake and stupidity. What was our condition in 1965? Shastriji used to plough his official residence to cultivate wheat. That is how poor we were as a nation. And what did we achieve in 1965? Was economy a consideration? What was our economic condition in 1971 when we fought on two fronts after Indira having devalued Rupee against Dollar in 1967 to get PL-480 from USA. Why did she nationalise banks in 1972?
Even with covid19, we are in much better shape than we ever have been in any war that we fought.

Okay.