Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Can USN Super Carriers operate F35A ? If not why ? ( apart from routine landing gear and other structural modifications etc)

You just answered your own question.
I’m asking because compared to A, the B version with all of its Lift fan and low fuel , No gun etc appears as a dud to me.
And how can you even think of dodging a IR seeking WVRAAM with that 7Gs.

Have you heard of the F-35c? Its G limit is 7.5Gs just like the F-14, F-18c and F-18E. And no plane can out maneuver a 30G missile alone they have to be spoofed with chaff or flares. F-18c with two tanks and G-limit of 7.5 had no problems gunning a french plane.
f18 vs rafale.jpg
f18 vs rafale 2.jpg
 
Spain say "no" to the f-35 :
Spain has no plans to buy F35 fighter planes from the United States and remains committed to the European FCAS fighter programme, a defence ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday.
MADRID (Reuters) –
Spain has no plans to buy F35 fighter planes from the United States and remains committed to the European FCAS fighter programme, a defence ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday.
A report on Nov. 4 in the French business magazine Challenges, citing an analyst at the defence specialist magazine Jane’s, suggested Spain may be interested in buying the F35 fighter from the United States.
However, Spain said it was fully committed to the Franco-German-Spanish FCAS fighter plane project.
“The Spanish government has no budget to enter into any other jet project in addition to the one that is already in place. We rule out entering the F35 project. Our investment commitment is in the FCAS,” the defence ministry spokeswoman told Reuters.
(Reporting by Graham Keeley, Belén Carreño; Editing by Emelia Sithole-Matarise)
 
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In 5 years when the FCAS is going nowhere, price keeps going up and F-18s and Typhoons are barely flying they will reconsider when they see all their EU neighbors happily flying F-35s. Nobody likes to feel left out of the party.
 
Can USN Super Carriers operate F35A ? If not why ? ( apart from routine landing gear and other structural modifications etc)
I’m asking because compared to A, the B version with all of its Lift fan and low fuel , No gun etc appears as a dud to me.
And how can you even think of dodging a IR seeking WVRAAM with that 7Gs.

super hornets are 7.6G. F-35B has twice the range of a harrier. F-35B is basically a STOVL F-18C, and the gun is additional if needed, like the Harrier or short nose phantom.

 
super hornets are 7.6G. F-35B has twice the range of a harrier. F-35B is basically a STOVL F-18C, and the gun is additional if needed, like the Harrier or short nose phantom.

Why not just used the landing gear of B/C on F35 A and use it as naval version without complicating(downgrading the performance) by adding unnecessary stuff like lift fan system and exhaust TVS( like Rafale M) These carriers are huge and can easily handle the F35 A landing and takeoff requirements.
Use F35B and C for STOL and LHDs respectively .
Is my idea making any sense here ?
@randomradio
 
Why not just used the landing gear of B/C on F35 A and use it as naval version without complicating(downgrading the performance) by adding unnecessary stuff like lift fan system and exhaust TVS( like Rafale M) These carriers are huge and can easily handle the F35 A landing and takeoff requirements.
Use F35B and C for STOL and LHDs respectively .
Is my idea making any sense here ?
@randomradio


STOL while Take off to reduce thrust requirements and VTOL to avoid holding during recovery when operating close to enemy waters. That's why it would do the job. In case of India, it will do the job when pakistan or china make Indian runways non-operational so IAF and Navy can launch aircrafts from chitrakoot or Jhumritalaiya in case of full scale war, without any runway.
For India it will save cost of making new airports and India can launch the aircraft from any where in Himalayas :)
 
STOL while Take off to reduce thrust requirements and VTOL to avoid holding during recovery when operating close to enemy waters. That's why it would do the job.
I understand the rationale. But US Navy Carriers are large enough for a full fledged F 35 variant (ie A) rather than going for those variants which are designed for very small carriers. Why compromise when they can use the Best type available.
In case of India, it will do the job when pakistan or china make Indian runways non-operational so IAF and Navy can launch aircrafts from chitrakoot or Jhumritalaiya in case of full scale war, without any runway.
For India it will save cost of making new airports and India can launch the aircraft from any where in Himalayas :)
Not practical at all. B and C are very compromised designs with inferior flights characteristics, low fuel and low weapons load. You will need refuelers to come close to LOC/LAC. and even then it’s not designed for high altitude operation.
It’s a Bad Bad deal for any Airforce. It’s best suited for small sized carriers and LHDs.
 
Not practical at all. B and C are very compromised designs with inferior flights characteristics, low fuel and low weapons load. You will need refuelers to come close to LOC/LAC. and even then it’s not designed for high altitude operation.
It’s a Bad Bad deal for any Airforce. It’s best suited for small sized carriers and LHDs.

What? All F-35 variants are faster than french planes with a full AG internal load and fully fueled. Air force french plane top speed is mach 1.8 clean configuration and mach 1.6 for the naval version. F-35B is killing it at Red Flag and @ 1:11 Billy Flynn explains the F-35c turning capability.

Also....

-The F-35C’s large internal fuel tanks give it more fuel – and reach – than any of the JSF variants, enabling it to carry up to 20,000 pounds of fuel.

“Your ability to stay on station and provide support is exponentially better than any other platform that is out there, with maybe the exception of a (F-15E) Strike Eagle the Air Force has,” Ahern said. “We are far and away the best for time-on-station range, and that matters.”

During a previous tour flying the F/A-18C over Syria and Iraq for Operation Inherent Resolve, “we had to go to the tanker all the time, because you had to maintain above a certain ‘bingo’ number and there were certain airfields you could divert to, so you need a lot of gas,” he said. But with the F-35C, “you hit the tanker a lot less and have a lot more options available and provide continuous support that other platforms could not.”

The F-35C’s capability to hot refuel/hot rearm at forward bases, such as on atolls or at remote airstrips – is a complementary capability to carrier operations and extends its reach when operating off deployed carriers. “For expeditionary base operations, we just need a small landing strip, whether we’ve built one ourselves or we’ve captured one,” he said. “It could be on a peninsula, it could be deep in a territory… and now I can refuel and I’m right back in the fight, vice having to fly back potentially hundreds of miles to some other more built-up location.”

“If we are called upon to push forward from where the carrier could be, in a higher fight, then now with this demonstrated capability, we could land at a small island airstrip, with expeditionary gear, similar to World War II island-hopping,” he said. “I can get bombs and gas and get right back into the flight without having to fly back to the carrier.

“We’ve tested and proven in the F-35C.”

The F-35C carries almost twice the fuel and “bigger and better weapons than the F-35B could carry,” he said, referring to the short takeoff and landing variant the Marine Corps has planned to buy in greater numbers than the carrier variant of the fifth-generation fighter.

The F-35C can complement the F-35B in supporting missions including armed reconnaissance, enemy suppression, strike coordination and close-air support, the latter the “bread-and-butter” mission for Marines.

“We have the flexibility for the what-if,” he said. “No plan survives first contact with the enemy, right? SO if you have this perfect plan for how the fuel is going to work out, and something changes it, you don’t have a margin of now I have to leave… leave for a period of time just to get gas… CAS is to provide support, and being overhead is doing that.”


F-35c way more combat radius than F-14 ever had.
 
A Block 3I has almost nothing that works, it is a Block 2B with instabilities, even a Pakistani Mirage III would be a credible threat to a Block 3I
This is why people think you're not as smart as YOU think you are. F-35B blk3i dominated at RedFlag against other fighters, Marine Corp General is telling you this, but you thinking waaay to highly of your intelligence or lack thereof and think you know better. The french plane fanboy brain is truly amazing... amazingly full of himself.

But hey you know what I'll give you this.... at least you have come to the reality that the F-35 with a full internal AG load is .2 mach slower than a clean french plane.... and that is the F1 version of the french plane the lighter one thn current heavy F3. ;)
 
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This is why people think you're not as smart as YOU think you are. F-35B blk3i dominated at RedFlag against other fighters, Marine Corp General is telling you this, but you thinking waaay to highly of your intelligence or lack thereof and think you know better. The french plane fanboy brain is truly amazing... amazingly full of himself.

But hey you know what I'll give you this.... at least you have come to the reality that the F-35 with a full internal AG load is .2 mach slower than a clean french plane.... and that is the F1 version of the french plane the lighter one thn current heavy F3. ;)
You are indecisive and project your own faults onto others, such as being full of yourself or believing against all odds that your crappy F-35 is superior to real planes.
 
Why not just used the landing gear of B/C on F35 A and use it as naval version without complicating(downgrading the performance) by adding unnecessary stuff like lift fan system and exhaust TVS( like Rafale M) These carriers are huge and can easily handle the F35 A landing and takeoff requirements.
Use F35B and C for STOL and LHDs respectively .
Is my idea making any sense here ?
@randomradio

@vstol Jockey
 
You are indecisive and project your own faults onto others, such as being full of yourself or believing against all odds that your crappy F-35 is superior to real planes.
I live in the world of reality while fanboys like you don't.

Reality is F-35 is vastly superior than your french plane for obvious reasons. It's so obvious that nations that have a choice between F-35 and french plane select the F-35. F-35 not the french plane will be the dominant fighter numerically in Europe which says A LOT about your planes shortcomings. I know the truth hurts but you can't live the rest of your life in a fantasy world that will never exist.

Here' s another reality slap... I mean check. The F-18E is just as fast as your plane and faster than your naval version. What a dreadful reality this must be for you, eh? :)
 
I live in the world of reality while fanboys like you don't.

Reality is F-35 is vastly superior than your french plane for obvious reasons. It's so obvious that nations that have a choice between F-35 and french plane select the F-35. F-35 not the french plane will be the dominant fighter numerically in Europe which says A LOT about your planes shortcomings. I know the truth hurts but you can't live the rest of your life in a fantasy world that will never exist.

Here' s another reality slap... I mean check. The F-18E is just as fast as your plane and faster than your naval version. What a dreadful reality this must be for you, eh? :)
The reality is that L.M. has turned its marketing into propaganda to hide the failure of the F-35 development.
  • It has unresolved structural defects that limit its life and are the consequence of the weight reduction campaign that was necessary because the aircraft exceeded the weight limit of its specifications. Some structural frames that were planned to be made of titanium were made of aluminium to gain weight and the structural tests could not be completed.
  • The flight controls, which are critical software, were developed without following the standards that this type of software requires and when employees alerted management to these bad practices, they were transferred to another site and assigned to tasks without responsibilities.
  • The JPO administratively downgraded, i.e. without asking the test pilots and engineers, 800 category 1 anomalies to category 2.
  • The programme is unable to develop ALIS, which manages maintenance and mission preparation, and ODIN, which was supposed to replace it in order to solve the problem, has had its funding cut because it did not work any better.
The more problems the programme has, the more L.M. amplifies its praise and presents the F-35 as wonderful. In fact his propaganda presents the F-35 as if all its features work as specified in its specifications, when they don't, and presents these features as extraordinary novelties when they now exist in almost all modern aircraft because the F-35 has fallen so far behind.
 
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What? All F-35 variants are faster than french planes with a full AG internal load and fully fueled. Air force french plane top speed is mach 1.8 clean configuration and mach 1.6 for the naval version. F-35B is killing it at Red Flag and @ 1:11 Billy Flynn explains the F-35c turning capability.

Also....

-The F-35C’s large internal fuel tanks give it more fuel – and reach – than any of the JSF variants, enabling it to carry up to 20,000 pounds of fuel.

“Your ability to stay on station and provide support is exponentially better than any other platform that is out there, with maybe the exception of a (F-15E) Strike Eagle the Air Force has,” Ahern said. “We are far and away the best for time-on-station range, and that matters.”

During a previous tour flying the F/A-18C over Syria and Iraq for Operation Inherent Resolve, “we had to go to the tanker all the time, because you had to maintain above a certain ‘bingo’ number and there were certain airfields you could divert to, so you need a lot of gas,” he said. But with the F-35C, “you hit the tanker a lot less and have a lot more options available and provide continuous support that other platforms could not.”

The F-35C’s capability to hot refuel/hot rearm at forward bases, such as on atolls or at remote airstrips – is a complementary capability to carrier operations and extends its reach when operating off deployed carriers. “For expeditionary base operations, we just need a small landing strip, whether we’ve built one ourselves or we’ve captured one,” he said. “It could be on a peninsula, it could be deep in a territory… and now I can refuel and I’m right back in the fight, vice having to fly back potentially hundreds of miles to some other more built-up location.”

“If we are called upon to push forward from where the carrier could be, in a higher fight, then now with this demonstrated capability, we could land at a small island airstrip, with expeditionary gear, similar to World War II island-hopping,” he said. “I can get bombs and gas and get right back into the flight without having to fly back to the carrier.

“We’ve tested and proven in the F-35C.”

The F-35C carries almost twice the fuel and “bigger and better weapons than the F-35B could carry,” he said, referring to the short takeoff and landing variant the Marine Corps has planned to buy in greater numbers than the carrier variant of the fifth-generation fighter.

The F-35C can complement the F-35B in supporting missions including armed reconnaissance, enemy suppression, strike coordination and close-air support, the latter the “bread-and-butter” mission for Marines.

“We have the flexibility for the what-if,” he said. “No plan survives first contact with the enemy, right? SO if you have this perfect plan for how the fuel is going to work out, and something changes it, you don’t have a margin of now I have to leave… leave for a period of time just to get gas… CAS is to provide support, and being overhead is doing that.”


F-35c way more combat radius than F-14 ever had.

Having more fuel, operating from unprepared airfields, something the Russians have had for decades. The Flanker could always do what Flynn is talking about. The Fulcrum came with two inlets, the lower one would seal itself for operations from dry and grass fields.

Mig29-1.jpg


Mig29-2.jpg

Just like the HMDS story, where you didn't know the F-35's helmet was just a third generation Israeli device.
 
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The reality is that L.M. has turned its marketing into propaganda to hide the failure of the F-35 development.
  • It has unresolved structural defects that limit its life and are the consequence of the weight reduction campaign that was necessary because the aircraft exceeded the weight limit of its specifications. Some structural frames that were planned to be made of titanium were made of aluminium to gain weight and the structural tests could not be completed.
  • The flight controls, which are critical software, were developed without following the standards that this type of software requires and when employees alerted management to these bad practices, they were transferred to another site and assigned to tasks without responsibilities.
  • The JPO administratively downgraded, i.e. without asking the test pilots and engineers, 800 category 1 anomalies to category 2.
  • The programme is unable to develop ALIS, which manages maintenance and mission preparation, and ODIN, which was supposed to replace it in order to solve the problem, has had its funding cut because it did not work any better.
The more problems the programme has, the more L.M. amplifies its praise and presents the F-35 as wonderful. In fact his propaganda presents the F-35 as if all its features work as specified in its specifications, when they don't, and presents these features as extraordinary novelties when they now exist in almost all modern aircraft because the F-35 has fallen so far behind.

He doesn't get that even the Pentagon doesn't know if the F-35 is capable or not yet.

Pentagon officials still haven’t set a date for Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35, the costliest U.S. weapons system, to complete the final 42% of mission testing to determine whether it’s up to countering the top Russian and Chinese air defenses and fighters.

The Pentagon’s test office reiterated in a statement its long-standing view that the simulation is necessary as part of legally required testing before Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed can proceed with full-rate production.
 
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