Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Please make up your mind. First it was 3rd gen Israeli, now it's French. I don't know if Thales buying the US Visionix means it's French tech? We also don't know what patent of Visionix was breached. Unless it was the main software program, it may be insignificant. $10m indicates it's not much, as far as settlements go.

First of all, you may not have noticed, but the arguments are given by two different people, and they are not contradictory because you can have an Israeli company using a French patent. And yes, when the US buys French companies, the developments made by these companies become US, the reciprocal is true.

And the 10 million is just to avoid a lawsuit, but now they will have to pay royalties and that's what's important because they will be proportional to the number of helmets produced.
 
Thales Visionix Inc. operates under a proxy agreement with the U.S. Department of Defense. It is also Thales USA and may be firewalled from France, the same as Thales Australia.
A patent is public and is not one of the secrets that the US or Australia want to protect. The firewall is to protect the national secrets that Thales can have access to because of its activity, not to protect the industrial secrets that are the property of Thales.
 
Please make up your mind. First it was 3rd gen Israeli, now it's French. I don't know if Thales buying the US Visionix means it's French tech? We also don't know what patent of Visionix was breached. Unless it was the main software program, it may be insignificant. $10m indicates it's not much, as far as settlements go.
be happy, he finally found the part of the F-35 he will admit he likes. LM should shell out 5 dollars to put a little French tricolor on every tail and make the Rafale Faction fall in love. The previous attempt of making F-35 markings nearly all white to honor the surrender flag clearly wasn't working.
 
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A Block 3I has almost nothing that works, it is a Block 2B with instabilities, even a Pakistani Mirage III would be a credible threat to a Block 3I
This is not the cutting insult you think it is. Mirage III is more of a threat than Rafale, which loses to Super Hornet? Sounds good to me. Do you think they'll ever get Rafale prices down to F-35 level? Is Rafale not credible until it passes the JSE tests too?
 
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be happy, he finally found the part of the F-35 he will admit he likes. LM should shell out 5 dollars to put a little French tricolor on every tail and make the Rafale Faction fall in love. The previous attempt of making F-35 markings nearly all white to honor the surrender flag clearly wasn't working.

This is not the only part....
Almost every part of the F35 is made with a Dassault software 😁
 
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Don't be an idiot.... or maybe you can't help it? What the F-35 helmet does is an evolution from previous HMD and either you know it and are trying to be a smart a s s or you're really clueless as hell. Does the french plane even have a HMD? NVM lets educate you a bit since you think the F-35 helmet is a third gen Israeli device.

What the F-35 helmet shows is dependent on the sensors on the aircraft. The F-35's helmet is 3rd gen, but the Israelis have progressed to the 5th gen now. You should check out the Typhoon's new helmet, makes the one on the F-35 looks like a rock.


Stop bragging about your iPhone 1 when there's the iPhone 13 out.
 
a 1.5+ hour podcast and all you could come up with is "Russia Stronk also has fly from rough field" ??

But, based on the argument made about takeoff conditions, Russia is stronk.

the same person saying the F-35 which saw combat years ago with the Israelis, is "not ready" but the Russian mock up is more ready, and an "effective threat" against the sale having not flown even a single flight. Yes I hope the Americans encourage them to be that stupid. They might as well threaten to buy S-37 Berkut if they don't get F-35. Berkut at least flew. it was one of the more fun Russian vaporware ideas

But the Russians didn't screw up their program. The Su-57 has already cleared state trials. And the Su-75 is just a smaller Su-57.

Anyway, the Su-75 was originally meant for UAE. 2017.
 
But, based on the argument made about takeoff conditions, Russia is stronk.

The Russians should try being more concerned with how their airplanes perform in the sky instead of on the ground. If the kill ratio gets any worse, people are going to start getting suspicious.


But the Russians didn't screw up their program. The Su-57 has already cleared state trials. And the Su-75 is just a smaller Su-57.

Anyway, the Su-75 was originally meant for UAE. 2017.

The absolute irony of saying the F-35 is guilty of propaganda while the Su-57 "clears trials"; so its now completely ready is so utterly laughable that I can't tell if you are being serious.

I also can't tell if Su-75 being a "smaller Su-57" drops the Su-57 or elevates the Su-75. if the UAE is stupid enough to sign onto Su-75 which we have noted is nowhere near even a first flight, and still requires billions in development, then they deserve what they get. Su-75 is not only not an F-35, but even if it was equal to F-35 and it won't be, its not even flying at all in a prototype form. "its like an F-35 but worse! and later!"

in order for a "threat" to work it has to be credible. We don't even know if Su-57M is equal to an F-22, let alone NGAD, but you think India will "bluff" its way to NGAD by threatening to buy Russian tech that is already behind the "old" F-22? when Su-57M ready in 5 years that is? The same can be said about Su-75 and F-35 bluff. if the UAE want to try that they can. its a mock up against the largest defense program in history. the UAE is not going to fool anybody. please buy Russian. the PAKFA program has been so immensely entertaining, and I hope the sequel is half as funny.

threatening to buy Russian junk, is no threat at all and guess what? the west knows it.
 
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The Russians should try being more concerned with how their airplanes perform in the sky instead of on the ground. If the kill ratio gets any worse, people are going to start getting suspicious.

I hope you are not referring to the old propaganda of how Russian jets fared poorly in wars just 'cause the ones that fought were monkey models of previous gen jets.

The absolute irony of saying the F-35 is guilty of propaganda while the Su-57 "clears trials"; so its now completely ready is so utterly laughable that I can't tell if you are being serious.

Are you surprised that the Russians are professionals?

Their military plays by pretty much the same rules the Pentagon does, they buy stuff only after it's proven in state tests. No different from how the F-35 is awaiting final tests before the Pentagon allows FRP.

I also can't tell if Su-75 being a "smaller Su-57" drops the Su-57 or elevates the Su-75. if the UAE is stupid enough to sign onto Su-75 which we have noted is nowhere near even a first flight, and still requires billions in development, then they deserve what they get. Su-75 is not only not an F-35, but even if it was equal to F-35 and it won't be, its not even flying at all in a prototype form. "its like an F-35 but worse! and later!"

in order for a "threat" to work it has to be credible. We don't even know if Su-57M is equal to an F-22, let alone NGAD, but you think India will "bluff" its way to NGAD by threatening to buy Russian tech that is already behind the "old" F-22? when Su-57M ready in 5 years that is? The same can be said about Su-75 and F-35 bluff. if the UAE want to try that they can. its a mock up against the largest defense program in history. the UAE is not going to fool anybody. please buy Russian. the PAKFA program has been so immensely entertaining, and I hope the sequel is half as funny.

Only a realistic exercise or war can prove anything of the sort. Now it's accepted that the Flanker is a far superior design compared to the Eagle or Viper. It's generally how it works when a new counter-design comes out long after someone makes the first one. The Su-57 was designed long after the F-22 and F-35, the Russians would have naturally designed it to be better than the two jets. The basic characteristics are already superior to both jets.

The USAF's official position is the F-22 and F-35 are not good enough to ensure air superiority in a post-2030 environment.

threatening to buy Russian junk, is no threat at all and guess what? the west knows it.

Actually the Pentagon considers Russian tech to be a serious threat, both economically and militarily. CAATSA anyone?
 
I guess Dassaults "propaganda" isn't good enough that it has to bribe people to buy their crappy plane like in India, eh? Why would Dassault need to bribe India to buy its plane when India already flies french fighters? What da dealio, mang?
We now know what the invoices that Médiapart denounces as false correspond to: they are offsets from the Rafale programme to make models of the Rafale in India! (y):ROFLMAO:

Moreover, some of these models were found on the desk of a future Dassault prospect, a Peruvian general!


:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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be happy, he finally found the part of the F-35 he will admit he likes. LM should shell out 5 dollars to put a little French tricolor on every tail and make the Rafale Faction fall in love. The previous attempt of making F-35 markings nearly all white to honor the surrender flag clearly wasn't working.
France produces more components in the F-35 programme than some of the partner countries, simply because it is a key player in certain areas. This does not prevent us from using the F-35 programme as an example in our engineering schools to show what not to do.
how legitimate is this?
This was published on 10 December 2020 and since then nothing has happened....
 
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This is not the cutting insult you think it is. Mirage III is more of a threat than Rafale, which loses to Super Hornet? Sounds good to me. Do you think they'll ever get Rafale prices down to F-35 level? Is Rafale not credible until it passes the JSE tests too?
  • You've outdone yourself in your stupidity, do you really believe that a Rafale can lose to an F-18 SH? Oh yes, it's because you found a video where we see a Rafale in the sight of an SH, but then what about the video where we see an F-22 in the sight of a Rafale? or the victory of Mirage 2000 - 9 against an F-22 in ATLC?
  • As for the price of the Rafale in LCC, it is about a third of that of the F-35, otherwise France would not be able to afford it and use it intensively as it does.
  • The credibility of the F-35 after it was tested at the JSE is a decision that was taken at the beginning of the JSF program, I can't help it, for the Rafale the equivalent operational tests had to be done at the CEAM, and after the delivery of each new standard the Rafale was again successfully tested at the CEAM. Moreover, the F4.1 standard is currently being tested at the CEAM after having passed its development tests.
 
Only a realistic exercise or war can prove anything of the sort. Now it's accepted that the Flanker is a far superior design compared to the Eagle or Viper. It's generally how it works when a new counter-design comes out long after someone makes the first one. The Su-57 was designed long after the F-22 and F-35, the Russians would have naturally designed it to be better than the two jets. The basic characteristics are already superior to both jets.

Lol. What blows my mind is that you actually believe the bull sh*t you sling. Amazing.

Btw whom are the people in your mind that believe Flankers are far superior than F-15 or F-16? In BVR no flanker is a match For AESA F-15 and F-16 since all Russian flankers still use inferior PESA and missiles. WVR and "dogfighting" US pretty much knows what the Flanker is capable.
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Su-57 is only good for airshows which is why IAF said no to it.

The USAF's official position is the F-22 and F-35 are not good enough to ensure air superiority in a post-2030 environment.



Actually the Pentagon considers Russian tech to be a serious threat, both economically and militarily. CAATSA anyone?
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Lol. What blows my mind is that you actually believe the bull sh*t you sling. Amazing.

The USAF too.

Btw whom are the people in your mind that believe Flankers are far superior than F-15 or F-16?

The USAF did. Plus the fact that most of the performance world records, including climb rates, take offs, turn rates and service ceiling are held by the Su-27.

Su-57 is only good for airshows which is why IAF said no to it.

For all the reasons except what you believe. It's a political decision since Russia has been siding with China while India is getting closer to the US. Both India and Russia have become uncomfortable with each other for the political decisions both have been making.


GoI rejected the FGFA, not the IAF.
 
In BVR no flanker is a match For AESA F-15 and F-16 since all Russian flankers still use inferior PESA and missiles
That's not a factor of design but tech. An AESA equipped Flanker would be more dangerous than an f-15. J-16 pretty much proved that
 
I hope you are not referring to the old propaganda of how Russian jets fared poorly in wars just 'cause the ones that fought were monkey models of previous gen jets.

they are all monkey models! says person trying to explain how threatening to buy downgraded Russian equipment scares the US. and India should buy more. What great people the Russians are to sell non combat ready equipment to future victims. This is that "professionalism" you mentioned no doubt.

Their military plays by pretty much the same rules the Pentagon does, they buy stuff only after it's proven in state tests. No different from how the F-35 is awaiting final tests before the Pentagon allows FRP.

You are snorting vodka if you think PAKFA went according to plan as you claimed earlier. Even now they are waiting on engines. Why are they waiting on engines? because way back in the 1980s the Americans spent big money to develop advanced engines that went into the ATF program that became the F-22. The Soviet counter to this was to collapse and lose decades. To this day they still don't have engines, they are as you admit, constantly 2nd. Reacting rather than acting. Russia has built how many Su-57 in the decade plus since it first flew? and its lost one to a crash and one to an engine fire (those engines again!)


Only a realistic exercise or war can prove anything of the sort.

and hey if it doesn't go your way just start saying "monkey model" and tell everyone that Russia deliberately sabotages the weapon systems you are advocating

willing buyer, willing supplier. The Russians want to sell "monkey models" to monkeys, and monkeys want to buy them. Darwin would be proud. unwitting Kamikazes.


Now it's accepted that the Flanker is a far superior design compared to the Eagle or Viper. It's generally how it works when a new counter-design comes out long after someone makes the first one. The Su-57 was designed long after the F-22 and F-35, the Russians would have naturally designed it to be better than the two jets. The basic characteristics are already superior to both jets.

The USAF's official position is the F-22 and F-35 are not good enough to ensure air superiority in a post-2030 environment.
The safety record alone of the Flanker tells me all I need to know. PAKFA as well. The amount of problems they have had with the dozen or so Su-57 tells so much. and even if they were superior to Eagle and Viper, and they are not; the US has Flankers in private hands. The US and about 15 other countries are already moving past them. Russia is great. they finally "master" the old 4th generation and then find out everyone is already onto the next generation and the next generation (NGAD) after that. and that's assuming they aren't selling you the old "monkey model" which is even a generation behind what they claim. In an amazing act of coincidence all the things the west thinks are required to make a modern fighter are lacking in Russia. Except Bananas of course.