Indian Air Force : Updates & Discussions

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They're apparently worried about tech leaks by India to countries like Russia. Truth is Japan's own track record is dodgy as far as tech leaks go. One reason why the US refused to sell them the F-22.

That's just an excuse. The real reason is they do not want to piss off China. It's the same reason SoKo quit P-75I.
 
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Seriously?? Do they not realize that no matter what they do ,China expects full subservience from both japan and SOKO....??
what's logic behind this?

SoKo seeks neutrality when it comes to China's problems with other powers. They were following the same plan with Russia, but was derailed due to the war. There's still an opportunity for them to fix things, 'cause Russia is amenable to that.

Japan has the same rule with Russia, and the current situation can be reversed. And they have decided to maintain some level of neutrality between China and India specifically, reciprocating our own stance in East Asia, but have openly supported Taiwan. I guess they do not want to take up more headaches than what they already have. So they are allied with India in the civilian and diplomatic space to counter China, but do not want to go beyond that.
 
That's just an excuse. The real reason is they do not want to piss off China. It's the same reason SoKo quit P-75I.
Sure looks like it from the way SoKo delayed the deployment of THAAD on its territory under Chinese pressure. Japan though has been openly backing Taiwan, diplomatically and militarily.

Reports say MHI secretly provided design help for Taiwan's SSK program with the first boat hitting the water recently.
 
Sure looks like it from the way SoKo delayed the deployment of THAAD on its territory under Chinese pressure. Japan though has been openly backing Taiwan, diplomatically and militarily.

Reports say MHI secretly provided design help for Taiwan's SSK program with the first boat hitting the water recently.

Yep, SoKo cannot afford to become enemies with China, and Japan cannot afford Taiwan to fall into China's hands, or they are next. And India has no interest in interfering in East Asia.

It's actually much worse for them because India wants China and the US distracted in East Asia, leaving the IOR, Africa, Myanmar, and the ME in India's hands.

And the others would prefer China is distracted by India, hence their need to cosy up to us via QUAD (and now a new group called SQUAD), which we did not fall for. They just wanna drag India into their squabbles.
 
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Yep, SoKo cannot afford to become enemies with China, and Japan cannot afford Taiwan to fall into China's hands, or they are next. And India has no interest in interfering in East Asia.

It's actually much worse for them because India wants China and the US distracted in East Asia, leaving the IOR, Africa, Myanmar, and the ME in India's hands.

And the others would prefer China is distracted by India, hence their need to cosy up to us via QUAD (and now a new group called SQUAD), which we did not fall for. They just wanna drag India into their squabbles.
Doesn't matter. Neither QUAD nor SQUAD are formal military alliances. The world knows we are a non-aligned nation. And we know all too well that nobody will come to our aid in the event of a war with China. In 1962, the US refused to send troops, despite GoI sending them an SoS.
 
Doesn't matter. Neither QUAD nor SQUAD are formal military alliances. The world knows we are a non-aligned nation. And we know all too well that nobody will come to our aid in the event of a war with China. In 1962, the US refused to send troops, despite GoI sending them an SoS.
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Unnecessarily emotional response.
US refused to send troops, despite GoI sending them an SoS
Nehru begged like a bitch for american help after insulting them in their faces for years. He sucked upto Chinese to such an extreme extent of forever giving up claims to Tibet for nothing concrete in return. Only to get invaded in 1962.
Anyways, the american help was material, no way US would send troops anyway. You need to get your narrative correct.


1962 war- US helped india
1965 war- US was neutral
1971 war- US sided notionally with Pakistan but didn't give them much help

Ironically, pakistanis cry that US refused to help them in 1971, same emotional nonsense ignoring their actions(genocide). We have similar emotional people here who will ignore our govts actions to further the victimhood narrative.

nobody will come to our aid in the event of a war with China
This narrative is famous in online circles, meanwhile Indian bureaucrats who run the Defense Ministry to people who work under NSA are thanking US for their help against chinese incursions. There was a conference {raisina maybe ???) where 1 babu was prostrating infront of american official. completey submissive & thankful for their help. Complete 180 degree difference in reality vs narrative.
Diversifying supply chains is the help. Why do you think western companies are expanding their supply chain here??? Why is apple making iphones in india???
 
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:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Unnecessarily emotional response.

Nehru begged like a bitch for american help after insulting them in their faces for years. He sucked upto Chinese to such an extreme extent of forever giving up claims to Tibet for nothing concrete in return. Only to get invaded in 1962.
Anyways, the american help was material, no way US would send troops anyway. You need to get your narrative correct.


1962 war- US helped india
1965 war- US was neutral
1971 war- US sided notionally with Pakistan but didn't give them much help

Ironically, pakistanis cry that US refused to help them in 1971, same emotional nonsense ignoring their actions(genocide). We have similar emotional people here who will ignore our govts actions to further the victimhood narrative.


This narrative is famous in online circles, meanwhile Indian bureaucrats who run the Defense Ministry to people who work under NSA are thanking US for their help against chinese incursions. There was a conference {raisina maybe ???) where 1 babu was prostrating infront of american official. completey submissive & thankful for their help. Complete 180 degree difference in reality vs narrative.
Diversifying supply chains is the help. Why do you think western companies are expanding their supply chain here??? Why is apple making iphones in india???

Nehru was a charlatan, he had no respect in the US.

And the US did not help in 1962, their agenda was to control the situation due to the ongoing Cuban Missile Crisis. They tricked us and sold us off to the Chinese.

The US wasn't neutral in 1965 or 1971, they just did not take action in 1965 'cause the Pakistanis went against US dictates. And they ensured we do not go through the second phase of the war in 1971, ie, taking back Kashmir.

The US diversifying supply chains is not help, it's an economic decision.
 
Nehru was a charlatan, he had no respect in the US.

And the US did not help in 1962, their agenda was to control the situation due to the ongoing Cuban Missile Crisis. They tricked us and sold us off to the Chinese.

The US wasn't neutral in 1965 or 1971, they just did not take action in 1965 'cause the Pakistanis went against US dictates. And they ensured we do not go through the second phase of the war in 1971, ie, taking back Kashmir.

The US diversifying supply chains is not help, it's an economic decision.
Delusion & willfully wrong reading of history to harm Indian interests.

I going to ignore you from now on because everything you say is too neck deep into conspiracies for me. You have consistently shown more loyalty towards defending russian interests over Indian interests. I hope you atleast get paid for so much effort to further russian interests even at the cost of harming indian interests
 
Unnecessarily emotional response.

Ironically, pakistanis cry that US refused to help them in 1971, same emotional nonsense ignoring their actions(genocide). We have similar emotional people here who will ignore our govts actions to further the victimhood narrative.

I'm only stating facts. The US and India have never been treaty allies. So whether we get any direct help from them in wartime depends completely on the whims of the GOTUS of the day. Given our stance on the Ukraine War, EU officials have openly asked why anybody should help us in case of war with China. The messaging is clear.

Nehru begged like a bitch for american help after insulting them in their faces for years. He sucked upto Chinese to such an extreme extent of forever giving up claims to Tibet for nothing concrete in return. Only to get invaded in 1962.
Anyways, the american help was material, no way US would send troops anyway. You need to get your narrative correct.
The Non-Alignment Movement was Nehru's idea. He was naive in thinking the US would be drawn into a war on our behalf without getting something in return. Trump is only spelling out what has been US policy for decades. Their material help was not nearly enough for the uphill task we faced in 1962.

Diversifying supply chains is the help. Why do you think western companies are expanding their supply chain here??? Why is apple making iphones in india???
The same reason why US companies flocked to India to outsource ITES/BPO services back in the 2000s - cheap talent, low overheads. However, they will be cautious with tech transfers to Indian cos. They don't want to create another competitor like China.
 
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China is operationalizing one aircraft every 2 year. What our Ba***ds do is giving excuses after excuses. Kick their A***s and ask them to quite if they can not deliver. Jorawar has set an example of what our private sectors can do. Top class Tank was bought in in just 2 years. One year for testing. Operational in 3 year after go ahead is something like dream come true. We should follow the same path and ditch public sectors. they have done more harm to nation than enemies. Confine them to just research. Let private sectors copartner in research and production should exclusive be done by private sectors.
 
They are the single biggest reason for Russia massive advancements in submarine noise reduction lvl at the end of the cold War.
Both Korea and Japan have sold a lot of tech to the soviets. This is just Japanese insecurity of sharing capabilities with us.
The Japanese are not a serious nation and have no spine.
 
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I don't think you watched the lecture. It gives a good overview from a 3rd party. You should watch that first, its good.

I'm only stating facts. The US and India have never been treaty allies. So whether we get any direct help from them in wartime depends completely on the whims of the GOTUS of the day. Given our stance on the Ukraine War, EU officials have openly asked why anybody should help us in case of war with China. The messaging is clear.
Again, you are talking in hypotheticals, i'm telling you that in present time, indian officials are openly singing praises of american help against chinese. We already are dependent on them to counter chinese incursions as we don't have large enough satellite constellation for constant satellite imagery. That's what I was referring to. I don't remember which conference it was, but an indian official was openly admitting to enormous american help in repelling chinese. This is what i mean, narrative in online circles is so detached from reality.

I'm not even sure how EU got into this conversation, i'm talking only about the US.

The Non-Alignment Movement was Nehru's idea. He was naive in thinking the US would be drawn into a war on our behalf without getting something in return. Trump is only spelling out what has been US policy for decades. Their material help was not nearly enough for the uphill task we faced in 1962.
Alright, [w.r.t 1962 war] first the narrative was that they didn't help us, then it becomes - their material help was not nearly enough. What is this logic???
Nehru spent years spitting on american faces, constantly insulting them. Indian NSA was famous for this. Then, Nehru begged them for help when chinese invaded. You should be thankful that americans even helped india after all those insults. Instead the narrative is that their help was not good enough. WTF???

This was you original comment:
US refused to send troops, despite GoI sending them an SoS
So, my question is, after all the insults thrown their way, why the fu_ck would they??? If i was in their place, i wouldn't. This was Nehru's own doing. Where does this entitlement of american help comes from???
The fact that they sent material help should indicate that India & US worked together when our interests aligned even in the times of cold war. That cooperation has reached unprecedented levels as Indian officials sing praises of american help in present times. But the online narrative is just completely removed from reality. Trump is an anomaly. He has ruined america's relations with all countries, so our future cooperation is uncertain, but if they were to lend out a helping hand, do you think indian govt will refuse it, as it is being narrated in this thread???
NO, a big emphatic NO. Indian govt will accept it immediately. That should say it all.

The same reason why US companies flocked to India to outsource ITES/BPO services back in the 2000s - cheap talent, low overheads. However, they will be cautious with tech transfers to Indian cos. They don't want to create another competitor like China.
Absolutely not. low wages are not the only factor that goes into industrialisation. If that was the case, we already would have unprecedented levels of FDI as china's wages are 6 times that of Indian wages. But, india's FDI is reducing year after year.
I have had lengthy discussion on this topic with randomradio with extensive data to back it up. Its in India-France relations thread, go back to 2022-23 time-frame, its all there to read.
They don't want to create another competitor like China.
this is another conspiracy theory that has been brought up again & again. This fearmongering doesn't even make sense & has been debunked time & time again by policy experts. Industrial cooperation is not a tap that can be opened or closed at will. Once a tech is transferred, its done. It cannot be reversed. Its upto us how to use it.
And you can worry about this conspiracy later on when you are good enough to be feared. first atleast become industrialised enough to be feared. You can talk about this when our country reaches that milestone. Whats the point of fearmongering about this right now???
 
I don't think you watched the lecture. It gives a good overview from a 3rd party. You should watch that first, its good.
What third party? The host Sarah Paine works for the US govt. She says so right in the intro. In my view, a Westerner can never have a balanced view of US policies and their impact on South Asia. Whether it's this lady or the infamous Dr. Christine Fair.

Again, you are talking in hypotheticals, i'm telling you that in present time, indian officials are openly singing praises of american help against chinese. We already are dependent on them to counter chinese incursions as we don't have large enough satellite constellation for constant satellite imagery. That's what I was referring to. I don't remember which conference it was, but an indian official was openly admitting to enormous american help in repelling chinese. This is what i mean, narrative in online circles is so detached from reality.
The Americans are doing that to keep India in their corner against the China. For all the public praise, US intel sharing with India, including during Doklam, isn't all that it's made out to be. While US sats can fill the gaps in our ISR capabilities, we're certainly not/won't be dependent on them by any means, esp once the recently announced SBS-III sat constellation goes up.


I'm not even sure how EU got into this conversation, i'm talking only about the US.
Ultimately, the EU will toe the line of their Anglo-Saxon cousins across the Altantic, eg the Iraq invasion under the pretext of Saddam having nukes.

So, my question is, after all the insults thrown their way, why the fu_ck would they??? If i was in their place, i wouldn't. This was Nehru's own doing. Where does this entitlement of american help comes from???
My friend, you're conflating two different timelines here. In the 1960s, India was merely a pawn in the great game that was being played between the US and the Soviets at the time. People like Kissinger were no friends of India and they orchestrated China's rise in the world order as much as blindfolded Nehru's Panchsheel/non-agression/non-aligned gig did.

If India has offered something of consequence to the US (like a base in A&N or the NE to spy on China's then nascent N-weapons prog), all insults and sleights would have been forgotten in an instant. It's about quid pro quo. Nehru just wasn't the man for the job. Today, India doesn't need the US against China as much as it needs us becoz we have a working N triad.

Absolutely not. low wages are not the only factor that goes into industrialisation. If that was the case, we already would have unprecedented levels of FDI as china's wages are 6 times that of Indian wages. But, india's FDI is reducing year after year.
I have had lengthy discussion on this topic with randomradio with extensive data to back it up. Its in India-France relations thread, go back to 2022-23 time-frame, its all there to read.
All said and done, it was the US that championed the cause of globalization and free trade. They didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts but to leverage low cost labour and resources in third-world countries, drive its own economic growth and cement its position as the world's only superpowah. But geopolitics always trumps trade and commerce and today the US is embracing protectionism like never before.
 
Delusion & willfully wrong reading of history to harm Indian interests.

I going to ignore you from now on because everything you say is too neck deep into conspiracies for me. You have consistently shown more loyalty towards defending russian interests over Indian interests. I hope you atleast get paid for so much effort to further russian interests even at the cost of harming indian interests

Oh, sure, ignore all the expert opinions. Stick to your dumb stories.