Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany

[TARGET]

Limited funds, but unlimited dreams for Indian defence procurement.

FCAS joint venture is attractive ---> But Russia is now offering similar cooperation with the Su-57 ---> Why do we buy Rafales in large numbers if the challenge is the fifth-generation fighter J-35? ---> We need them because we have issues with squadron numbers and no domestic fighter. LCA Mk2 / LCA MK1 and AMCA ---> But China has already built the 6th-gen fighter.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Limited funds, but unlimited dreams for Indian defence procurement.

FCAS joint venture is attractive ---> But Russia is now offering similar cooperation with the Su-57 ---> Why do we buy Rafales in large numbers if the challenge is the fifth-generation fighter J-35? ---> We need them because we have issues with squadron numbers and no domestic fighter. LCA Mk2 / LCA MK1 and AMCA ---> But China has already built the 6th-gen fighter.

If you read my past posts, I've already said that we are not buying Rafales as our next tip rather our next workhorse. Su-57/60 is our counter for J-20/35 while our 6th gen initiative is to counter J-36/50 in late 2030s/2040s.

 

[randomradio]

Limited funds, but unlimited dreams for Indian defence procurement.

FCAS joint venture is attractive ---> But Russia is now offering similar cooperation with the Su-57 ---> Why do we buy Rafales in large numbers if the challenge is the fifth-generation fighter J-35? ---> We need them because we have issues with squadron numbers and no domestic fighter. LCA Mk2 / LCA MK1 and AMCA ---> But China has already built the 6th-gen fighter.

Su-57 cannot compete with 6th gen. Their JV is pointless. They should develop a new jet.

Rafale is competitive with the J-35.

https://www.vayuaerospace.in/Issue/202605291047513133.pdf

Gehani later said in an interview that the Rafale fulfilled every responsibility it was given during Sindoor. He said it is fully equipped to take on jets like the Chinese J–10 or J–35 and that no one should doubt the aircraft’s capabilities.

China's current lot of 6th gen fighters are not 6th gen, at best 5.5th gen airframes. Way better than 5th, very likely VLO from VHF to Ka, but not full spectrum. The B-21 is a pretty good standard for the level of seamlessness necessary for 6th gen.

 

[TARGET]

If you read my past posts, I've already said that we are not buying Rafales as our next tip rather our next workhorse. Su-57/60 is our counter for J-20/35 while our 6th gen initiative is to counter J-36/50 in late 2030s/2040s.

@Rajput Lion I already countered the point for the depleting number of Indian fighter squadrons; I believe the SU 57 manufacturing and induction will have a gap of 5 to 6 years from the Rafale induction if we plan now. Can we take that risk? It needs to be checked. But again, I am with the point that the Rafale will face difficulties against the J-35, but don't forget the Rafale will have a blanket of the S-400 battery.

Su-57 cannot compete with 6th gen. Their JV is pointless. They should develop a new jet.

Rafale is competitive with the J-35.

https://www.vayuaerospace.in/Issue/202605291047513133.pdf

Gehani later said in an interview that the Rafale fulfilled every responsibility it was given during Sindoor. He said it is fully equipped to take on jets like the Chinese J–10 or J–35 and that no one should doubt the aircraft’s capabilities.

China's current lot of 6th gen fighters are not 6th gen, at best 5.5th gen airframes. Way better than 5th, very likely VLO from VHF to Ka, but not full spectrum. The B-21 is a pretty good standard for the level of seamlessness necessary for 6th gen.

@randomradio If we ask a Su-30MKI pilot, "Can you take down a J-35?" he will give 10 different ways to kill a J-35, but on paper a J-35 is better, and this is not like older Chinese products; current Chinese products are world-class. The Rafale is a good value for money fighter plane for longer durations, including peacetime flight hours; it's not an air dominance fighter for deep penetration attacks. Again, using standoff missiles, the SU-30MKI will bring similar or better firepower but the IAF always keeps an aggressive posture, so 5th-gen fighters should be a must.

The engine program and our indigenous program are the primary problems. God knows why MOD/GOI continually looks outward rather than internally.

 

[Rajput Lion]

@Rajput Lion I already countered the point for the depleting number of Indian fighter squadrons; I believe the SU 57 manufacturing and induction will have a gap of 5 to 6 years from the Rafale induction if we plan now. Can we take that risk? It needs to be checked. But again, I am with the point that the Rafale will face difficulties against the J-35, but don't forget the Rafale will have a blanket of the S-400 battery.


@randomradio If we ask a Su-30MKI pilot, "Can you take down a J-35?" he will give 10 different ways to kill a J-35, but on paper a J-35 is better, and this is not like older Chinese products; current Chinese products are world-class. The Rafale is a good value for money fighter plane for longer durations, including peacetime flight hours; it's not an air dominance fighter for deep penetration attacks. Again, using standoff missiles, the SU-30MKI will bring similar or better firepower but the IAF always keeps an aggressive posture, so 5th-gen fighters should be a must.

The engine program and our indigenous program are the primary problems. God knows why MOD/GOI continually looks outward rather than internally.

Russians have promised deliveries to commence after a year of signing the deal. The dual-seat MKIsed version would take some time
(local production from 2030 onwards) but the single seat Su-57I variant won't take that much time.

 

[screambowl]

It is always the funds. Plus F35 dilemma.

 

[randomradio]

@randomradio If we ask a Su-30MKI pilot, "Can you take down a J-35?" he will give 10 different ways to kill a J-35, but on paper a J-35 is better, and this is not like older Chinese products; current Chinese products are world-class. The Rafale is a good value for money fighter plane for longer durations, including peacetime flight hours; it's not an air dominance fighter for deep penetration attacks. Again, using standoff missiles, the SU-30MKI will bring similar or better firepower but the IAF always keeps an aggressive posture, so 5th-gen fighters should be a must.

The engine program and our indigenous program are the primary problems. God knows why MOD/GOI continually looks outward rather than internally.

No one will claim MKI can deal with J-35 in the IAF. The IAF themselves claim the MKI is not competitive with the Rafale.

But this is the plan. India has already rejected the F-35 and Putin himself has been activated to hardsell the Su-57 to India, which is not going to work for a whole host of reasons. So, until AMCA arrives in its full glory, Rafale will deal with 5th gen threats.

F4 will come with anti-stealth capabilities, and higher survivability than the already impressive F3R.

Post 25 and 28.

Post in thread 'The Rafale and what you know about it.'

Nov 29, 2023

So what makes Spectra special?

We must put on record that there is consistent evidence that Spectra is capable of automatically processing waveforms in real time, a technology that the US does not yet have, as the director of DARPA has admitted. They are only now starting to work on this technology, which we have been using for over a decade. By combining it with SPECTRA's extraordinary localisation capabilities, it makes it possible to create jammers that are far more intelligent than those used by the Growlers. And it is likely to enable "active cancellation".

Indeed...

• Picdelamirand-oil

• 
• 

 

[Hydra]

@Rajput Lion I already countered the point for the depleting number of Indian fighter squadrons; I believe the SU 57 manufacturing and induction will have a gap of 5 to 6 years from the Rafale induction if we plan now. Can we take that risk? It needs to be checked. But again, I am with the point that the Rafale will face difficulties against the J-35, but don't forget the Rafale will have a blanket of the S-400 battery.


@randomradio If we ask a Su-30MKI pilot, "Can you take down a J-35?" he will give 10 different ways to kill a J-35, but on paper a J-35 is better,

No

 

[TARGET]

No one will claim MKI can deal with J-35 in the IAF. The IAF themselves claim the MKI is not competitive with the Rafale.

But this is the plan. India has already rejected the F-35 and Putin himself has been activated to hardsell the Su-57 to India, which is not going to work for a whole host of reasons. So, until AMCA arrives in its full glory, Rafale will deal with 5th gen threats.

F4 will come with anti-stealth capabilities, and higher survivability than the already impressive F3R.

Post 25 and 28.

Post in thread 'The Rafale and what you know about it.'

Nov 29, 2023

So what makes Spectra special?

We must put on record that there is consistent evidence that Spectra is capable of automatically processing waveforms in real time, a technology that the US does not yet have, as the director of DARPA has admitted. They are only now starting to work on this technology, which we have been using for over a decade. By combining it with SPECTRA's extraordinary localisation capabilities, it makes it possible to create jammers that are far more intelligent than those used by the Growlers. And it is likely to enable "active cancellation".

Indeed...

• Picdelamirand-oil

• 
• 

i get that on paper, the Rafale looks way better than the SU-30, but in actual operation Sindoor, it didn't manage to get any air-to-air kills. It ended up doing the same SEAD and DEAD missions as the SU-30 MKI. The S-400 was really the game-changer here. We know the J-35 isn't invisible Plus, the PAF is bringing in the PL-16/PL-17. so it'll be interesting to see how it will performs against the S-400 and VHF radar(Surya) in a data-linked environment. Honestly, investing in the AMCA/MK2 should be the way but GE engines are now pain in axx...