ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

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Wind tunnel tests to confirm aerodynamic performance of a twinjet afterbody:
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ADA is testing Flush Air Data Sensors (FADS), for the AMCA, using a modified centre-line drop tank of the LCA Tejas, fitted with these conformal sensors and associated hardware inside.
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Studies for DSIs in windtunnel. Below are images from a study by Dr. G K Suryanarayana (NTAF Division) issued in 2010.
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cont..
 
Looks like electro hydraulic actuator.
Indeed, looks like EHAs like F-35s which is an upgrade compared to F-22s hydraulic actuators. Lets hope we wont see prominent bulge under wings for flaperon actuators in final AMCA.

Edit: I am having doubts now, is it EHA or just HA, because I am not seeing any fin Heat exchangers which should be there for a electric motor driven one as below??

More on F-35 actuators:
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source : https://www.moog.com/content/dam/moog/literature/Aircraft/military_aftermarket/Moog-F35-Brochure.pdf

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Indeed, looks like EHAs like F-35s which is an upgrade compared to F-22s hydraulic actuators. Lets hope we wont see prominent bulge under wings for flaperon actuators in final AMCA.

Edit: I am having doubts now, is it EHA or just HA, because I am not seeing any fin Heat exchangers which should be there for a electric motor driven one as below??

More on F-35 actuators:
View attachment 33464
source : https://www.moog.com/content/dam/moog/literature/Aircraft/military_aftermarket/Moog-F35-Brochure.pdf

View attachment 33465
View attachment 33466
View attachment 33467

We may use fully electric actuators instead.

 
Does any one know what gun does AMCA plan to have? I couldn't find anything on it, so it won't have gun?
No guns. From what I have read and heard so far, AMCA and even Tejas MK2 are not going to have guns.

AMCA especially is not designed to be a dog fighter. It will engage enemy from long to medium range by throwing missiles/bombs at them and turning and running away.

Primary ground role - stealthily enter enemy air space and take out enemy radars & other high value targets and get out. All other dirty work to be done by non stealthy aircrafts. Also collect information to some degree.

Primary air role - Lob missiles at enemy aircrafts from long-medium ranges, turn and run away. I believe it will keep enemy busy from a range till Su30/Rafale/Tejas MK2 get close to them.
Its not designed to engage in 1 on 1 dog fights like F22 unfortunately. Hence you'll see it doesnt have max speeds or maneuverability built into it like the american plane. Some Indian reporters have reported that AMCA's features are not very ambitious and should be achievable.

This is all good vs 4.5gen fighters and below but puts it at a disadvantage when facing other 5th gen fighter as they will not be able to detect each other untill close/dog fighting range. In that case, if the opponent plane has better kinematics, guns/laser, AMCA is roast.
 
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India’s 5th-gen fighter, the AMCA, looks to move off the drawing board and into the air

The US has its F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II, Russia has its Sukhoi-57, China has its J-20 Chengdu and J-31 Shenyang – all of them 5th-generation (Gen-5) combat aircraft, built to rule the skies.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) isn’t ready to be left behind. With the experience gained from building the Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), New Delhi is pushing its aircraft production monopoly, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), to join hands with the Defence Research & Development Organisation’s (DRDO’s) Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) to build an Indian Gen-5 fighter: dubbed the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Business Standard was granted an exclusive briefing at HAL Bengaluru on the progress of the AMCA project.

“The [AMCA] project has just begun and it is coming along well. We are building in close cooperation with ADA. About 35-40 per cent of the aircraft has been allocated to HAL to design. The rest of the aircraft is being designed by ADA. There is no third design partner,” said CB Ananthakrishnan, HAL’s chairman and managing director (CMD).

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is keen on bringing in private industry immediately, at the design and development stage. However, private firms would like to participate in production programmes only after completing design and development to avoid locking in funds during an inevitably long gestation period.

The AMCA’s Comprehensive Design Review (CDR) has been completed in December 2023. HAL will now have to develop some systems and build five prototypes – a four-year-long job.

HAL officials briefed Business Standard that the AMCA’s stealth shaping was now complete, its design now mature and its internal systems fully laid out. The way is clear for metal cutting – the symbolic start of constructing a flying prototype.

Stealth is health

Stealth fighters are crucial at the start of a war. Being almost invisible to radar, they fly deep into enemy airspace on “interdiction” missions to strike enemy radars, air bases and control centres. The “air superiority” thus created allows non-stealthy fighters like Sukhoi-30MKI, Jaguars and Mirage 2000s to penetrate enemy airspace and strike enemy targets such as roads, railways, airfields, depots and ground forces without incurring heavy casualties.

In the event of a war with China, AMCA deep strikes would target China’s rail and road links with Tibet, isolating the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) divisions there.

Four advanced capabilities make Gen-5 fighters so lethal: Their “stealth”, or near-invisibility to enemy radars, is magnified by an ability to “supercruise”, or fly at supersonic without engaging the engines’ fuel-guzzling afterburners. Third, its advanced avionics enhance the pilot-aircraft interface, allowing a single pilot to both fly and fight the aircraft. Fourth, its powerful radar can detect and engage targets from far, outranging its adversaries.

In stealth mode, the AMCA conceals its fuel and weapons in an internal bay, since carrying them under-wing creating protrusions that reflect radar waves and compromise stealth.

In stealth mode, the AMCA’s “all-up-weight” (AUP) of 20 tonnes allows it to carry a mere one-and-a-half tonnes of munitions, concealed in internal weapon bays. In non-stealth mode, an additional five tonnes of munitions and fuel payload can be carried on external, under-wing stations.

However, given the AMCA’s strategic value and cost, its primary task would probably be stealth missions, using armament carried on four weapons stations in internal bays.


On deep penetration strikes, the AMCA would carry up to 6.5 tonnes of fuel in internal tanks. That is sufficient to strike targets 1,000 kilometres inside enemy territory and return to base.

In “non-stealth” mode, the AMCA would carry much of its weapons load on its six external, under-wing stations. That would free up internal fuel tanks to carry an additional 1,200-1,300 litres of fuel, increasing its capability as a potent long-range, non-stealthy bomber.

Engines for super-cruising

Another key AMCA design challenge is to develop an indigenous, “super-cruising” engine. Until then, the AMCA will be powered by twin General Electric (GE) F-414 engines. These engines, in single-engine configuration, will power the Tejas Mark 2.

DRDO officials say: “The F-414 engine generates up to 98 KiloNewtons (KN) thrust, which effectively degrades to 90 KN in Indian climatic conditions. We have calculated that an AMCA, with the configuration the IAF has specified, requires a thrust of 220 KN (in Indian conditions) for super-cruising. That means it requires twin engines, each generating 110 KN thrust.

Former Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had estimated the AMCA would cost about $4 billion to develop – with a major share going into developing the engine. In 2015, India set up a “joint working group” (JWG) with America to co-develop jet engine technology. In October 2019, US Under Secretary of Defence Ellen Lord, on a visit to Delhi, revealed the JWG had been scrapped since US export control laws prevented the export to India of key technologies that the DRDO wanted.

With almost a decade of work and Rs 400 crore having gone into the AMCA, responsibilities are now being reassigned. The serial production of the AMCA was made over to HAL’s Nashik Division, which has, for the last two decades, been engaged in manufacturing the Sukhoi-30MKI.

Ananthakrishnan says there is now a proposal to have a “special purpose vehicle” (SPV), with a private sector firm as a partner. “There will be 50 per cent of the holding with ADA and HAL and the remaining 50 per cent with the private partner. However, we have yet to find a suitable private partner,” he said.

HAL is now going to be doing the complete structural design of the AMCA, except for the centre fuselage, which ADA will design.

“There is no clarity on how these private companies could be chosen. For the time being, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) paper says to go ahead with 50 per cent ownership each with ADA and HAL. When the private sector firms are ready to join, they can be invited,” said the HAL chief.

[ENDS]
 

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft prototype expected by 2028-29

Model to involve private industry in the works; AMCA is India’s fifth generation fighter jet and is expected to be ready for induction by 2034


As the project for the design and development of the indigenous fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), makes progress, the Defence Ministry is working out a model for bringing in the private sector in a big way, which is important for timely execution of the project, according to official sources. The first prototype is expected to be ready by 2028-29.

“The design of the AMCA is ready. The prototype is expected to roll out by 2028-29 and the production is expected to begin from 2032-33. The target is to have it ready for induction in 2034, a decade from project sanction,” an official source said. In preparation to have the manufacturing and deliveries on track, there is significant private industry involvement that is being envisaged. “We have to decide a model for private sector involvement. A model is expected to be worked out in the next six months,” an official source said.

The Defence Ministry has already issued an Expression of Interest (EoI) to the industry and three responses were received.

The AMCA project is particularly critical as it is India’s only FGFA that is planned for induction at a time when a series of such FGFA development projects are making progress worldwide. China, which has made great progress in the development and deployment of FGFAs, has recently deployed its twin-engine J-20 FGFA in Tibet bordering India.

CCS clearance​

The AMCA project got sanction from the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) in March. It is envisaged as a 25-tonne twin engine stealth aircraft with internal weapons bay and diverterless supersonic intake which has been developed in India for the first time. It is intended to have an internal carriage of 1,500 kg of payload and 5,500 kg of external payload with 6,500 kg of internal fuel. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which is the production agency for the project, has already initiated manufacturing activities.

The development of AMCA is planned to be carried out in two phases, a MK1 with the General Electric F414 engine and a Mk2 with a more powerful engine planned to be co-developed in partnership with Saran of France for which discussions are under way.

An aircraft development project, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)-Mk2, a larger and more capable aircraft than the present LCA, is on track and the prototype is expected to be ready by 2027, the sources stated.

In September 2022, the CCS gave sanction for the development of LCA-Mk2 at a total cost of ₹9,000 crore. The LCA-Mk2 will also be powered by the GE F-414 engine which produces 98kN thrust compared to 84kN thrust of the GE-404 engine powering the LCA Mk1 and MK1A. A deal to licence-manufacture the F-414 in India by the HAL is in advanced states of conclusion.
 

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft prototype expected by 2028-29

Model to involve private industry in the works; AMCA is India’s fifth generation fighter jet and is expected to be ready for induction by 2034


As the project for the design and development of the indigenous fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), makes progress, the Defence Ministry is working out a model for bringing in the private sector in a big way, which is important for timely execution of the project, according to official sources. The first prototype is expected to be ready by 2028-29.

“The design of the AMCA is ready. The prototype is expected to roll out by 2028-29 and the production is expected to begin from 2032-33. The target is to have it ready for induction in 2034, a decade from project sanction,” an official source said. In preparation to have the manufacturing and deliveries on track, there is significant private industry involvement that is being envisaged. “We have to decide a model for private sector involvement. A model is expected to be worked out in the next six months,” an official source said.

The Defence Ministry has already issued an Expression of Interest (EoI) to the industry and three responses were received.

The AMCA project is particularly critical as it is India’s only FGFA that is planned for induction at a time when a series of such FGFA development projects are making progress worldwide. China, which has made great progress in the development and deployment of FGFAs, has recently deployed its twin-engine J-20 FGFA in Tibet bordering India.

CCS clearance​

The AMCA project got sanction from the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) in March. It is envisaged as a 25-tonne twin engine stealth aircraft with internal weapons bay and diverterless supersonic intake which has been developed in India for the first time. It is intended to have an internal carriage of 1,500 kg of payload and 5,500 kg of external payload with 6,500 kg of internal fuel. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which is the production agency for the project, has already initiated manufacturing activities.

The development of AMCA is planned to be carried out in two phases, a MK1 with the General Electric F414 engine and a Mk2 with a more powerful engine planned to be co-developed in partnership with Saran of France for which discussions are under way.

An aircraft development project, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)-Mk2, a larger and more capable aircraft than the present LCA, is on track and the prototype is expected to be ready by 2027, the sources stated.

In September 2022, the CCS gave sanction for the development of LCA-Mk2 at a total cost of ₹9,000 crore. The LCA-Mk2 will also be powered by the GE F-414 engine which produces 98kN thrust compared to 84kN thrust of the GE-404 engine powering the LCA Mk1 and MK1A. A deal to licence-manufacture the F-414 in India by the HAL is in advanced states of conclusion.
I think they need to stop giving statements about developing new platforms on such unrealistic timelines. Report on concrete progress that has been made for sure, but some official gives a timeline that inevitably is false and it just hurts the credibility of the entire industry.
 
I think they need to stop giving statements about developing new platforms on such unrealistic timelines. Report on concrete progress that has been made for sure, but some official gives a timeline that inevitably is false and it just hurts the credibility of the entire industry.
They switched to realistic timelines after they got CCS approval.
 
I'll believe it when I see it. India's track record for this kind of thing is bad and I would be surprised to see it flying before 2030.
There is nothing particularly noteworthy about AMCA flying if they already have LCA mk2 in flight. Most of the systems are the same even the engine. It's really not a significant event.
 
There is nothing particularly noteworthy about AMCA flying if they already have LCA mk2 in flight. Most of the systems are the same even the engine.
The way you phrase it sounds like the mk2 is a demonstrator for the AMCA but I don't see it that way. There are similarities but there are also huge differences - internal weapons bay, dsi, twin engine, RAM coating, etc. Realistically Tejas mk2 should not be taking as long as it is considering it is based off an existing platform, AMCA is a clean sheet design.

It's really not a significant event.
I promise you people on this forum will be doing cartwheels down the street when the AMCA actually flies for the first time. People on other forums will be saltier than the sea. You can argue that it is tactically/technically insignificant (I'd argue against those points) but it will definitely be newsworthy & the morale boost it'll have will mean something.
 
All our aeronautical programmes are inter-related and feed off each other. LCA MK2 is instrumental for AMCA's development as simple as it may sound.
 
The way you phrase it sounds like the mk2 is a demonstrator for the AMCA but I don't see it that way.
But, it is that way. ADA people also saying the exact thing.

There are similarities but there are also huge differences - internal weapons bay, dsi, twin engine, RAM coating, etc. Realistically Tejas mk2 should not be taking as long as it is considering it is based off an existing platform, AMCA is a clean sheet design.
None of the difference is hinderance to taking flight. I specifically mentioned "flight" not the entire program completion. Year 2034 is very much a realistic timeline.
 
There is nothing particularly noteworthy about AMCA flying if they already have LCA mk2 in flight. Most of the systems are the same even the engine. It's really not a significant event.
Let the Mk2 fly then. I am kind of disheartened on the state of our Airforce and the ongoing efforts all around.
 
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I think they need to stop giving statements about developing new platforms on such unrealistic timelines. Report on concrete progress that has been made for sure, but some official gives a timeline that inevitably is false and it just hurts the credibility of the entire industry.
I guess you understand that its not one single entity which releases occasional statements like this. There are various stakeholders in such projects even if you just consider those working at official level. A reporter would occasionally clear that confusion up, which we average readers most of the time fail to understand. All of the stakeholders are only responsible for their share of work. Even the DRDO chief if he says something its to justify their position, which would even contradict with either or both 1. ADA director statement on similar timeline 2. actual work level situation.

Given that absolute no Government agency, psu or the MoD would like to take accountability on such delays , never take timelines in a time bound manner. Its kinda foolish.
 
@Rajput Lion

Anything to do with amca like airborne system? or something else?

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Thats some *censored*ed up design choices here... Why go for Intel processor? Intel processors typically are very vulnerable to different kind of software based attacks. Yes, even hardened ones too. All of them follow a microcode based implementation (ie instructions are implemented using "software"). It means one more place to plant a malware. Better idea will be to go for a RISC processor with fixed control unit and simple execution units. There are many alternatives to choose from including open source designs like POWER architecture or even RISC-V. This is as trust worthy as one can make a computer of any kind. A POWER9 design (open sourced) implemented using a 14 nm process (likely produced locally) will provide them exactly what they need. Whats more POWER9 powers most advanced severs and workstation and has very great compiler support.

Also GPGPU????? WTF! More blobs and mess and venues for malware attack! Go for FPGAs if you want upgradibility and fast prototyping or go for custom logic. GPGPU with vendor supplied blobs and software is a recipie for disaster. If all you need is processing power for video processing, You can customize POWER9 chips to include several cores or even a subprocessor with specialized power9 cores.

I do not know what they are planning elsewhere but this is not really a good design and design choice. It will backfire later with availability of parts and security vulnerabilities and even kill switches.
 
Thats some *censored*ed up design choices here... Why go for Intel processor? Intel processors typically are very vulnerable to different kind of software based attacks. Yes, even hardened ones too. All of them follow a microcode based implementation (ie instructions are implemented using "software"). It means one more place to plant a malware. Better idea will be to go for a RISC processor with fixed control unit and simple execution units. There are many alternatives to choose from including open source designs like POWER architecture or even RISC-V. This is as trust worthy as one can make a computer of any kind. A POWER9 design (open sourced) implemented using a 14 nm process (likely produced locally) will provide them exactly what they need. Whats more POWER9 powers most advanced severs and workstation and has very great compiler support.

Also GPGPU????? WTF! More blobs and mess and venues for malware attack! Go for FPGAs if you want upgradibility and fast prototyping or go for custom logic. GPGPU with vendor supplied blobs and software is a recipie for disaster. If all you need is processing power for video processing, You can customize POWER9 chips to include several cores or even a subprocessor with specialized power9 cores.

I do not know what they are planning elsewhere but this is not really a good design and design choice. It will backfire later with availability of parts and security vulnerabilities and even kill switches.
Arre these are prototype works, hardly the final frozen config.
 
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Thats some *censored*ed up design choices here... Why go for Intel processor? Intel processors typically are very vulnerable to different kind of software based attacks. Yes, even hardened ones too. All of them follow a microcode based implementation (ie instructions are implemented using "software"). It means one more place to plant a malware. Better idea will be to go for a RISC processor with fixed control unit and simple execution units. There are many alternatives to choose from including open source designs like POWER architecture or even RISC-V. This is as trust worthy as one can make a computer of any kind. A POWER9 design (open sourced) implemented using a 14 nm process (likely produced locally) will provide them exactly what they need. Whats more POWER9 powers most advanced severs and workstation and has very great compiler support.

Also GPGPU????? WTF! More blobs and mess and venues for malware attack! Go for FPGAs if you want upgradibility and fast prototyping or go for custom logic. GPGPU with vendor supplied blobs and software is a recipie for disaster. If all you need is processing power for video processing, You can customize POWER9 chips to include several cores or even a subprocessor with specialized power9 cores.

I do not know what they are planning elsewhere but this is not really a good design and design choice. It will backfire later with availability of parts and security vulnerabilities and even kill switches.
What a hilarious tech bro take. Even russians and chinese choose the same hardware. Its the most suitable and commercially available and common sensical choice. This is not desi uncle's laptop which he uses to watch porn. Its not even connected to internet. Btw, the entire US Military runs on Windows the must vulnerable operating system.