ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

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South block said:
Only 10dB RCS reduction
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*More than* 10dB RCS reduction;)

Anyways here is something interesting. IIT Kanpur has developed a transparent meta-material that is going to be used on our future/upgraded fighter jets that also absorbs RF waves between 90%-98%.

Link: Protective Layer for Microwave Metamaterial Absorbers


Here are some interesting quotes from the research paper:



  • The new invention can be applied directly to optical transparent windows, making them capable of absorbing over 90% of incident electromagnetic waves at microwave frequencies.
  • This invention has great potential in defense for stealth technology and in commercial sector for reducing electromagnetic radiation in buildings and houses by deploying it on windows.
  • The metamaterial absorber remains robust even under harsh environmental conditions and rigorous handling, without compromising its microwave performance over time.
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Some more:

Notably, coating the absorber led to a significant increase in absorption efficiency within microwave frequency range, rising from 95% to an impressive 98%.
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So we've developed stealth Paints, Composites, Laminates and even meta-materials than can absorb well over 90% RF waves(in various frequencies), almost upto 98-99%.

It's really remarkable how fast we've caught up to the West. Our AMCA is going to be one very very stealthy bird. Just sort the engine FFS and we're all set.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
The improvements/latest innovations in RAM paint for AMCA shall also greatly benefit all our 4+ gen fighter.
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Very correct. This will go into MWF to reduce its RCS very low level and at par with contemporary European fighters. US's plane are either stealth or comes with unimpressive RCS. F-16, F-18 etc has bad RCS level. Rafale and Eurofighter has very low RCS. MWF will fall in this category.
 
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HariPrasad said:
Very correct. This will go into MWF to reduce its RCS very low level and at par with contemporary European fighters.
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With modern RAM we should achieve better frontal RCS than the Euro-Canards, all of which are among 0.05m2-0.1m2 clean frontal.
HariPrasad said:
US's plane are either stealth or comes with unimpressive RCS. F-16, F-18 etc has bad RCS level. Rafale and Eurofighter has very low RCS. MWF will fall in this category.
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No buddy, actually US legacy planes having bad RCS is just a myth. They have 'Have Glass' program to reduce the RCS of F-16s. Modern F-16 have way less RCS than legacy ones. Even current F-15EX isn't as bad as it's portrayed in the media.


And talking about their 4.5gen Super Hornet? Well, if you compare it with other 4.5gens then none go as far as it to reduce their RCS. Radar Blockers, canted tails et al. Its clean frontal aspect RCS is also in Euro-Canards' ball-park, i.e., ~0.1m2. Its side RCS could even be lower because of use of canted tails. So you see, even American legacy/upgraded 4/4+ gens have equally good RCS as compared to their European counterparts.

PS: Not only LCA MK2, but TEDBF will also benefit from all these newer RAM paints/sprays/laminates developed for AMCA programme along with our legacy 4.5gen like MKI/Tejas and 4th gen like Mig-29/M-2000 etc.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
With modern RAM we should achieve better frontal RCS than the Euro-Canards, all of which are among 0.05m2-0.1m2 clean frontal.
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I doubt that. However, if we can go below 0.1 M Sq RCS (Frontal), it will be a great thing. In this case We shall be able to score first hit against any Pakistani Plane and first hit against any Chinese plane except J20. MWF shall have advantage against all Pakistani and Chinese plane in BVR combat except J20. Even within Visible range, MWF can do batter because of batter EW, and batter missiles like MICA, ASRAAM, Python V etc. However, if fight happens at closer distance, Chinese planes like Su 30, Su 35 and J10 C will have edge because of TVC.
Rajput Lion said:
No buddy, actually US legacy planes having bad RCS is just a myth. They have 'Have Glass' program to reduce the RCS of F-16s. Modern F-16 have way less RCS than legacy ones. Even current F-15EX isn't as bad as it's portrayed in the media.
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This is generally true for any derivative of Original. However, when F-16 was designed, it was not designed keeping RCS in mind. This is true for F18 as well. However, F15 has a batter stealth. I agree with you. I also agree with you that newer version of F 16 has a batter stealth than older one. However, in spite of that, RCS of F 16 shall remain significantly higher than Euro canards and MWF.
 
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HariPrasad said:
I doubt that. However, if we can go below 0.1 M Sq RCS (Frontal), it will be a great thing. In this case We shall be able to score first hit against any Pakistani Plane and first hit against any Chinese plane except J20. MWF shall have advantage against all Pakistani and Chinese plane in BVR combat except J20. Even within Visible range, MWF can do batter because of batter EW, and batter missiles like MICA, ASRAAM, Python V etc. However, if fight happens at closer distance, Chinese planes like Su 30, Su 35 and J10 C will have edge because of TVC.
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Tejas MK1A is around 0.3m2 and very close to the Euro-Canards in clean frontal RCS. With newer materials, MK2/TEDBF may even be lower than that. So 0.1m2 clean or even below is definitely a possibility.

About dogfight, well MWF will have Rafale like Close Couple Canards, so it'll have a very high Instantaneous turn rate and even a great Sustained turn rate. Its post stall maneuverability also should be better though can't match TVC planes there. I think, it shall excel not ONLY in BVR against PLAAF/PAF jets but also do well in WVR with IR missiles or guns only dogfight.
HariPrasad said:
This is generally true for any derivative of Original. However, when F-16 was designed, it was not designed keeping RCS in mind. This is true for F18 as well. However, F15 has a batter stealth. I agree with you. I also agree with you that newer version of F 16 has a batter stealth than older one. However, in spite of that, RCS of F 16 shall remain significantly higher than Euro canards and MWF.
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'Have Glass' is a continuous program. They continue to apply next-gen RAM onto their Vipers(especially Wild Weasels ones). The latest F-16V will also have very close frontal RCS with the aforementioned jets.

Anyways, as HVT sir once said. All the LO/RO planes that fly with 1 or 2 drop tanks(like our Tejas or Rafale) will have similar RCS to an MKI with 6 missiles. External weapons and tanks are biggest enemy of RCS because of 'corner reflections' and wave creeps.

For true stealth that is really effective, IWB is a must.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Tejas MK1A is around 0.3m2 and very close to the Euro-Canards in clean frontal RCS. With newer materials, MK2/TEDBF may even be lower than that. So 0.1m2 clean or even below is definitely a possibility.
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True that. If we are able to achieve 0.1 Sq meter RCS, UTTAM/ELTA 2052 can detect F-16, JF-17, SU 30 MKK, SU 35 and J10 atleast 30 to 40 KM further distance than Chinese radar can detect MWF. This will give it a first shoot capability and actual hitting will depend on no escape zone of BVR. If we integrate meteor, Chances of hitting will be higher. If we shoot Astra MK2 (Which has almost same range as Meteor), Chances of neutralizing enemy Plane shall be lower compared to Meteor (Probably as believe that Meteor is a batter missile with longer No escape zone) .
Rajput Lion said:
About dogfight, well MWF will have Rafale like Close Couple Canards, so it'll a very high Instantaneous turn rate and even a great Sustained turn rate. Its post stall maneuverability also should be better though can't match TVC planes there. I think, it shall excel not ONLY in BVR against PLAAF/PAF jets but also do well in WVR with IR missiles or guns only dogfight.
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The great advantage which Tejas MK1/MWF will have is that it will be equipped with some great short range missiles such as ASRAAM and Meteor. They can be fired at enemy plane without even MWF pointing towards enemy plane. They can be fired even if MWF nose is not pointed towards enemy plane. They can be guided at enemy plane by just looking at it with the help of helmet guidance. As these are very high G missiles, they can change directions quickly and go towards enemy missiles. Chinese short-range missiles are inferior in IRR seeker and in maneuverability. They are low G missile and easy to Jam with EW or Chef and flare. only advantage they will enjoy shall be TVC. It will give them advantage in close combat and gun fight.
 
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@marich01 can you find this tender. AMCA's canopy:
1729941218848.png
 

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The Su-57s first outing outside of Russia and the chosen location is China? How bizarre.

A country that supposedly reverse engineered the Su-27/30 (and is likely copying tech from the Su-35's AL-41F engines) should have been the last place on earth for Russia to display its next gen jet.

Unless of course, J-11/16 were all produced as part of secret license production deal with full OEM support.

The Russians may be desperate for sales since CAATSA but this is shooting themselves in the foot. Don't be surprised if it makes an appearance at Aero India '25 next.
 
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Speedster1 said:
The Su-57s first outing outside of Russia and the chosen location is China? How bizarre.

A country that supposedly reverse engineered the Su-27/30 (and is likely copying tech from the Su-35's AL-41F engines) should have been the last place on earth for Russia to display its next gen jet.

Unless of course, J-11/16 were all produced as part of secret license production deal with full OEM support.

The Russians may be desperate for sales since CAATSA but this is shooting themselves in the foot. Don't be surprised if it makes an appearance at Aero India '25 next.
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All J series blunder are license build..... Copying stealing bull s**t is spread to hide under the table dealings. Even the one so called stolen from West are under the table dealing given colour of hacking BS.
 
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