ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

Fitting Ramjet missiles is a challenge bcoz of their long intakes, it becomes difficult to stagger them.
There is an early render by artist Kuntal Biswas of 2 Astr-3 SFDR /bay, total 4 AAMs, but pic is angled, the bay is short with big gap in between.
View attachment 38970

He has also made multiple CADs of Astr-3 SFDR BUT with different fin & ramjet intake dimensions.

View attachment 38971

The 3rd one is the only one with bottom view so if we resize it with IWB then still it will be a TIGHT UNSAFE fit of 3 staggered AAMs/bay.
And if we consider 3 staggered Meteors (AAM CAD by artist "AkelaFreedom") then although it is 6" shorter but its intakes & fins seem to be wider & overflows out of bay.

View attachment 38972

Editing in MS Paint, Photoshop, etc can produce inaccurate errors.
It is best accurate if the artists themselves produce this kind of images. But most of them don't.

If the Ramjet intake is shortened then 6 Astr-3 SFDR AAMs might fit relatively better. But there could be military safety specs which may or may not allow this.

We see Akash-1 SAM also has Ramjets which don't extend all the way backwards.

The intake fairing in Meteor is long bcoz it houses some electronics, fin actuators. Same could be with Astr-3 SFDR. But if the AAM body can be adjusted then it can favor AMCA.

 

[Lolwa]

News channels & elsewhere people are talking abot MRFA & only 2 final candidates - Su-57 Vs F-35.
While F-35 would be the most tempting honey trap so far, the Su-57 is under fire too not seen as proper full 5gen stealth. There are many things which can be learnt from current 5gen jets. Some of us are also concerned that it may impact AMCA program. The following is a brief comparison. The "possible" features have to be TIMELY implemented expecially when global tech evolution is at 6gen R&D level.
View attachment 39035

We ain't getting production of either. It's a g2g deal. Maybe we could produce su-57 "mki" but not for the f-35.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

We ain't getting production of either. It's a g2g deal. Maybe we could produce su-57 "mki" but not for the f-35.

I'm praying daily 2 times that we should not get F-35 And Su-57 also not upto the mark.
So we should fast track AMCA & implement all the "possible" features in the table which will make it better than J-35, Kaan, KF-21.

 

[screambowl]

So we should fast track AMCA & implement all the "possible" features in the table which will make it better than J-35, Kaan, KF-21.

India would require to develop AI based intelligent manufacturing and high end solution for engine optimization using AI.

AI based swarm tech , smart sensors , big data intelligence theory, autonomous unmanned system support platforms and many more. It is better to prepare AMCA as 6.5 gen fighter than 5th Gen. There is no much time. Only then India could end up close to 5+ Gen fighter if not fully 6th gen.

As per Chinese policy on AI, they will be operational on the above mentioned tech to a great extent by between 2025-2027

 

[screambowl]

If the Ramjet intake is shortened then 6 Astr-3 SFDR AAMs might fit relatively better. But there could be military safety specs which may or may not allow this.

Playing with dimension means playing with center of mass and stability of a missile while launching. It may fall back into bay or fly sideways, etc etc and disorient itself while dropping,and cause accident. More over new launch softwares with new data links are required for that weapons need to be modified as well.

For example Link 16 is used in a lot of 4th Gen fighters you can't install it in 5th gen fighter and still call it a 5th gen fighter. Link 16 needs to be upgraded at par with MADL and then installed due to it's resistance capabilities against EW.

 

[screambowl]

We ain't getting production of either. It's a g2g deal. Maybe we could produce su-57 "mki" but not for the f-35.

If you can't get 5th gen fighter on time, then get the technology to counter it to fill the gap. What is there in arsenal similar to Russian Rezonans-NE, Nebo M or that chinese DWL002?

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

India would require to develop AI based intelligent manufacturing and high end solution for engine optimization using AI.
AI based swarm tech , smart sensors , big data intelligence theory, autonomous unmanned system support platforms and many more. It is better to prepare AMCA as 6.5 gen fighter than 5th Gen. There is no much time. Only then India could end up close to 5+ Gen fighter if not fully 6th gen.
As per Chinese policy on AI, they will be operational on the above mentioned tech to a great extent by between 2025-2027

Since the year 2000, may be late 1990s, Ai was introduced in Engineering college syllabus. So some of those students today after 2+ decades as engineers are working somewhere on AI, mostly in private firms, which we see in cellphones & otherconsumer electronics.
Our DoD units may also be working on AI but i'm not tracking that progress.
W.r.t. AMCA or any combat jet in general, AI can be a Co-pilot/WSO, handle drones, etc. Future UCAV has to be primarily AI, not RC (Remote Controlled), with option to take over it remotely if required.

Playing with dimension means playing with center of mass and stability of a missile while launching. It may fall back into bay or fly sideways, etc etc and disorient itself while dropping,and cause accident. More over new launch softwares with new data links are required for that weapons need to be modified as well.
For example Link 16 is used in a lot of 4th Gen fighters you can't install it in 5th gen fighter and still call it a 5th gen fighter. Link 16 needs to be upgraded at par with MADL and then installed due to it's resistance capabilities against EW.

That's a genuine technical observation but not a problem. Such things like weapon separation obviously have to be simulated, computed, tested.
But globally, IWB has not new thing. The earliest jet i know with AAMs with IWB is F-102 Delta Daggaer in 1950s.
The documentaries made since then show the ground & aerial tests. (AIR but AERial, not AIReal or AIRial )
If we see YT videos of weapons separation like that of AIM-120 AMRAAM then we can notice that
- the ejectors literally punch out the AAMs away from jet
- the the fins of AAMs immediately start moving to control & stabilize the separation to avoid collision.
- the MTOW is roughly double the empty weigth, so the digital FCS takes care of inertial changes during weapons release.
- So it is a collective effort b/w weapon & aircraft, H/w & S/w, the jet can launch in most angles & orientations. There are some limitations of roll, yaw & pitch.

F-22:

F-35:

First F-35A In-Flight Missile Launch

An F-35A conventional takeoff and landing aircraft completed the first in-flight missile launch of an AIM-120 over the Point Mugu Sea Test Range June 5, 2013...

www.youtube.com

Our DoD has also done similar tests on ground & computers. The following are some old pics:

So the AMCA prototype will also conduct such ground & flight tests. But in short, 6 AAMs can be easily done on a medium jet. F-35 & J-35 will do it.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

If the Ramjet intake is shortened then 6 Astr-3 SFDR AAMs might fit relatively better. But there could be military safety specs which may or may not allow this.
View attachment 39229

We see Akash-1 SAM also has Ramjets which don't extend all the way backwards.
View attachment 39231

The intake fairing in Meteor is long bcoz it houses some electronics, fin actuators. Same could be with Astr-3 SFDR. But if the AAM body can be adjusted then it can favor AMCA.
View attachment 39232

Continuing on this agenda of internal load, 2 days back someone shared PL-15E AAM with folding fins from Zhuai airshow. AFAIK big/heavy missile do have folding fins but a medium missile is yet to be seen with AIM-120 AMRAAM, Meteor, etc. R-77 have folding grid fins.

Now there is no CAD of Meteor, Astr-3 SFDR with folding fins & i can't use PL-15E to depict in AMCA :crazy:
So i'm just clipping the fins in SFDR pic. IDK the safety gap spec but this looks like a safe fit, that too w/o staggering.

And i had already shown that 6 staggered AAMs of short fin version of Astr-2 could easily fit. So if we use folding fin version of it now then total 8 staggered AAMs or 16 SAAW bombs could fit. The ejectors shoud be firm & free from vibrations.

If this config is considered unsafe then in worst case 6 AAMs or 12 SAAW bombs can fit easily.

 

[HariPrasad]

For that Russia must agree for cutomizations & proper warranty & servicing for its own remaining parts, in cost-effective way.
But if they think like - Oh! India left us earlier, so this time we'll milk them badly, then.....

Chances of that happening with US weapons are more compared to Russian weapon.