ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

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Chain Smoker said:
Jai ho aircraft has became obsolete even before it's first flight. Still there is no certainty in first flight, sanction & induction. With every passing day dates are slipping ,another case study of how not to develop a aircraft.
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Again,why would we need Pakistan/china as our enemy when we have DRDO.
 
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Even if we realistically consider 2030 after dividing the flight trials into 2 phases - IOC & FOC , there's the paperwork to consider . Assuming they get thru that , they can target 2030 for 2 squadrons IOC make & 2033 onwards FOC. In any case I personally saw this project going upto 2030 as far as first induction went .

Gripen E was phased in such a manner for Brazil that up unto 2019 they were inducting the C & D version during which the E was completing it's flight trials . I reckon it's still not been awarded the FOC . No clue if SAAB's gotten down to mfg it for either Sweden or Brazil AFs as of now .


Ankit Kumar said:
The most modern development. The Gripen E. Even that took 7 years of flight testing if I am not wrong. And SAAB has been making fighter jets for like 5 decades and Gripen was already a proven platform.

There is no reason to believe that development cycles can be so compressed without any major investment in money and time already.

If we had for like 5 years back put 2-3 billions on R&D activities and setting up testing infrastructure, then probably yes. But even 2033 is not realistic according to me.

But let's see.
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Ankit Kumar said:

AMCA mk1 to be in service by 2033.
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Very difficult timeline. I get the feeling he's lied. They do that quite often.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:

AMCA mk1 to be in service by 2033.
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Why do I feel like AMCA is being set aside by ADA to make room for mk2.

IAF waiting till 2035 for an operational fifth gen squadron is disastrous.

Imagine PAF operating FC-31 by 2030. They will go into panic mode and buy F-35s.
 
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Chain Smoker said:
Jai ho aircraft has became obsolete even before it's first flight. Still there is no certainty in first flight, sanction & induction. With every passing day dates are slipping ,another case study of how not to develop a aircraft.
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It will be advanced/cutting edge in the 2030s. The tech on Mk1 will be relevant until 2050, so it's not a problem.

The question is if Mk2 will keep up with the times, it needs to be relevant until 2060 in order to make up for delays. The alternative is it will have to be upgraded in the mid-2050s, ie, 20 years after Mk1 enters service.

Current versions of the Rafale (F3+, F4.2) will stop being cutting edge by 2035, 'cause rival countries are developing new airframes faster. The F5 will carry it into the 2050s, like AMCA, but with an inferior airframe, so AMCA will still be ahead as long as 2 squadrons are inducted between 2035-40.

AMCA will only be obsolete without upgrades in the 2060s. In the 2050s, at worst, it will be outdated, like Rafale F4.2 will be after 2035, without F5 upgrades.

All of the above concerns avionics. Airframe obsolescence will take many decades. And mission-specific drones will act as equalisers.
Ashwin said:
Why do I feel like AMCA is being set aside by ADA to make room for mk2.

IAF waiting till 2035 for an operational fifth gen squadron is disastrous.

Imagine PAF operating FC-31 by 2030. They will go into panic mode and buy F-35s.
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An emergency import of 2 squadrons will solve the problem, whether it's the F-35A for strike or Su-57ME for air superiority. Has always been the case.
 
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Ashwin said:
Why do I feel like AMCA is being set aside by ADA to make room for mk2.

IAF waiting till 2035 for an operational fifth gen squadron is disastrous.

Imagine PAF operating FC-31 by 2030. They will go into panic mode and buy F-35s.
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Easily explained - lack of personnel at ADA & funds in GoI. CDR was completed in last qtr 2020 IIRC. Had funds been sanctioned in advance or even as soon as CDR was completed, the Mk-2 would've rolled out latest by Dec 2022 with taxi trials & first flight occurring in due course.

The team would've then proceeded to AMCA Mk-1 & completed the CDR by last qtr 2022 with taxi trials occurring in Dec 2024 assuming funds were immediately sanctioned.

A delay in release of funds for Mk-2 had a cascading effect on all the other programs with the result it's difficult to predict or believe T/Ls being conveyed by official sources.
 
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Bali78 said:
Really? Why exactly DRDO is not responsible? That phucked up org has delayed every damn project and still can’t meet the spec and you are giving them clean chit!! They run every project like a hubby project. It’s just another creation of our socialist government to burn tax payer’s hard earned money.
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Not f*cking the projects with delay,even they sabotage the procurement by armed forces.
Awacs,atgms, sams, reduction of aircraft for IN ,Reduced p8I,SDR. Name any critical procury,these MFs & it's peers like HAL will show up with a paper project.
 
I urge all my forum friends to have patience and faith in our scientists and gov. AMCA will take time but eventually we'll have our own desi stealth jet. And AMCA is coming with cutting-edge technologies that will remain relevant well post 2060s.

Only thing is we need a stealth jet between 2025 and 2035. And Su-57M is tailor made for us. F-35 is not for air dominance and would find it hard to fight a supercruising J-20. Su-57 on the other is multi-role from its inception. So while not as stealthy or effective as F-35 in strike roles, it will hold its own there as well while swatting J-20s out of sky.

Have patience, IAF is on right track. This all desi transformation is a very painful one, but now that our government has initiated there ain't no going back towards full-on importing.

Just import the silver bullets, make other things in India by Indians. AMCA is happening, few years delay or not, period.
 
Hehe people want 5th gen jet at the earliest without thinking if we have the capability at the tarmac level to maintain it. If you see airforces around the world making & operating top end jets for almost a century still have huge problem maintaining those fleets, you can understand how hard it would for us. Just hurrying & releasing a product half done is major detrimental.
 
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marich01 said:
Hehe people want 5th gen jet at the earliest without thinking if we have the capability at the tarmac level to maintain it. If you see airforces around the world making & operating top end jets for almost a century still have huge problem maintaining those fleets, you can understand how hard it would for us. Just hurrying & releasing a product half done is major detrimental.
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The last think you wanna do is question the IAF's ability to absorb technology that's already operational in the IAF. This is a tactic used to name and shame Third World air forces since the beginning of imports, like we are inferior people.

The IAF has been participating in development programs since the 60s, and we were part of FGFA. And now, the IAF has three active fighter development programs, one of which is 5th gen, and a stealth drone program, and the IAF can't absorb some 20-year old tech like the F-35. Otoh, countries with zero modern aerospace history like Finland, Greece and Poland have no issues absorbing it. Ridiculous.

If the IAF rejects it, this will be their face-saving tactic. There's no need to contribute to their propaganda.

Other countries are struggling maintaining the jet 'cause operating it is still problematic. It's a jet problem, not a training problem.
 
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randomradio said:
The last think you wanna do is question the IAF's ability to absorb technology that's already operational in the IAF. This is a tactic used to name and shame Third World air forces since the beginning of imports, like we are inferior people.

The IAF has been participating in development programs since the 60s, and we were part of FGFA. And now, the IAF has three active fighter development programs, one of which is 5th gen, and a stealth drone program, and the IAF can't absorb some 20-year old tech like the F-35. Otoh, countries with zero modern aerospace history like Finland, Greece and Poland have no issues absorbing it. Ridiculous.

If the IAF rejects it, this will be their face-saving tactic. There's no need to contribute to their propaganda.

Other countries are struggling maintaining the jet 'cause operating it is still problematic. It's a jet problem, not a training problem.
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its not IAF, rather the ground stuff at company level. This was actually pointed out by the IAF person in the seminar today. As per them introduction of new tech is also very much dependent on the ability of the maintenance crew ability, right now there is shortfall.
 
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