Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

[vstol Jockey]

The target coordinates were not for the roof but much below on the floor of the building. When the bombs are released by a formation of aircraft, they will follow exactly same profile and trajectory to the target to hit the point on ground. BUT the vertical entry point of each bomb will be a bit different based on the distance from the target. The bomb released farthrest from the target will enter the roof at an angle which will be less steep than the bomb fired from a distance comparatively closer to the target. These multiple trajectories will enter the roof with that much separation between them as their vertical descent angle. Here the roof itself was also sloping. That caused the difference between the entry points of the bombs.

 

[Sulla84]

You are wrong and completely wrong. Even dumb bombs fired from same height by one single aircraft will fall in a straight line. This happen due to similar drag profile, similar atmospheric conditions including drift due to wing. This effects each bomb in exact same manner. Even after being released from 30k feet, all bombs will fall in a straight line. Watch the videos of Viet war carpet bombing by B-52s and you will understand what I mean.
Regarding a GPS guided bomb, all bombs released from similar height and same release parameters will suffer exactly same kind of drift and errors. What you have failed to notice is that these bombs could have impacted the target with near zero difference between them. The separation between the bombs is on account of the slope of the roof because the direction of release for all the bombs was same.

Depends on how high is your perspective... View three bomb craters from a 1000 feet high.. they might appear to be more or less in a straight line... This particular pic shared by Sameer Joshi, is how someone might see the balakot camp if he or she looked at it from a height of a 100 feet. At this height .. like when viewed from the 8th floor of a building, adjacent to the balakot terror camp, you can see that the craters are not exactly in a straight line.. (although there is still a low probability of them being in a straight line)

 

[Sulla84]

Was anything relating to PAF missing its targets on the 27th discussed during the military literature event..?

 

[nair]

when we had no proof to present,

Proof to whom? PA? ISI? PAF? JEM? International Community? Indian population? Indian opposition?

 

[Sulla84]

Proof to whom? PA? ISI? PAF? JEM? International Community? Indian population? Indian opposition?

Indian citizens .....

 

[nair]

@sulla Please be respectful to Ex military, You can differ with them as much as you want....But calling them idiot is uncalled for and not tolerated.....

 

[nair]

Indian citizens .....

Not necessary at all....

 

[Sulla84]

Not necessary at all....

Cool

 

[vstol Jockey]

Cool

I and @Falcon had stated post Balakot that we must not make the pictures of the strike public as that will expose our capabilities to the enemy. Now even ACM Dhanoa (Retd) had made same comments. We should never fall pary to false bravado and end up making a fool of ourselves. I am sure just like many in political parties and many on this forum asked for those pictures as proof. Those who needed to know, got the message. Their lies will not change what happened in Balakot and it suits us that they denied any damage.

 

[nair]

Cool

Responding to reports that the Indian Air Force had missed it target when it launched Spice 2000 satellite guided bombs against the Jaish facility, Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa (Retired) claimed ''operational capability involved in our execution of the Balakot attacks and our intelligence capability cannot be compromised just to win a perception battle in the media.''

 

[Deathstar]

Cool

Do u know the chatter ongoing in Pakistani AF community?? In the haste of glory, full capabilities were shown to the enemy

 

[nair]

Do u know the chatter ongoing in Pakistani AF community?? In the haste of glory, full capabilities were shown to the enemy

In the words of @vstol Jockey what they have done on 27th was a cabaret show in front of IAF radars

 

[vstol Jockey]

In the words of @vstol Jockey what they have done on 27th was a cabaret show in front of IAF radars

Yes, we now know what all they have and also their tactics. If you may recall, IAF did another big exercise in March end or April in J&K itself when they tested new capabilities and tactics against what PAF had used.
ACM Dhanoa (Retd) stated that we failed to cause substantial damage to PAF on 27th. Now we have things in place to even take down their full barrier CAP and also ensure that not even one of them is able to land back. He also stated that plans were in place before Balakot itself regarding what we will do for acts like 27th. One member had asked me as to how downing of WC Abhi caused a set back to our plans?
Our people had war gamed the retaliation by Pakistan and we knew that they will attack our formations as a counter. For that elaborate plans were in place to use Brahmos from ships, from Land and also stand off attacks on PA formations along LOC. But we had to scale them back as we needed to bring WC Abhi back home. Our political parties had already started using his capture as a baton to beat Modi and BJP. Plus we were in election time. If it was not election time, Modi would have gone ahead with his counter and Pak would not have been able to harm WC Abhi as his capture alive had been widely publicised by Pakistan.

 

[nair]

Yes, we now know what all they have and also their tactics. If you may recall, IAF did another big exercise in March end or April in J&K itself when they tested new capabilities and tactics against what PAF had used.

Just for a perception war, all their available combat and other related assets were air borne..... just for a technical violation of Abhi on hot pursuit......They thought IAF will act like them (acting stupid) and walk in to their trap..... All the assets did what they were supposed to do... Ie: defending mil installations.....

 

[vstol Jockey]

Just for a perception war, all their available combat and other related assets were air borne..... just for a technical violation of Abhi on hot pursuit......They thought IAF will act like them (acting stupid) and walk in to their trap..... All the assets did what they were supposed to do... Ie: defending mil installations.....

Exactly. That was the plan. The aim was clear, let Pak escalate and we will escalate further to the point of full blown war if the need be. It was this reason that IN was fully mobilised. IN usually takes more time for mobilisation. The aim to defend against any Pak misadventure and than take them out thru pricision strikes. remember, revenge best served cold.

 

[nair]

Exactly. That was the plan. The aim was clear, let Pak escalate and we will escalate further to the point of full blown war if the need be. It was this reason that IN was fully mobilised. IN usually takes more time for mobilisation. The aim to defend against any Pak misadventure and than take them out thru pricision strikes. remember, revenge best served cold.

IN is not back to peacetime state yet

 

[vstol Jockey]

IN is not back to peacetime state yet

IN is on state-2. Normal peacetime state is 3.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

You are yourself saying "very very remote", not impossible, that should tell you that there is possibility there.

There is no possibility there.

Assuming a CEP of 3 meter for SPICE 2000, there is no way(very very low probability)all three of them would have impacted in a straight line.. even if entry is vertical, it's just mathematics. It's called "circular" error probability for a reason

Don't complicate things too much, it's impossible and those are not impact marks.

You can do millions of sortie and drop tens of millions of such bombs in similar conditions and never will they all fall like the one in image. There is not even a circumstantial evidence that can support these as impact marks.

I and @Falcon had stated post Balakot that we must not make the pictures of the strike public as that will expose our capabilities to the enemy.

operational capability involved in our execution of the Balakot attacks and our intelligence capability cannot be compromised

Israel even when surrounded by enemies of much bigger size never hesitates in realising videos and neither does any other country. None of them capabilities get exposed, however here, somehow even after manufacturing nothing original and most of what we used is readily available in public and can he obtained in 'exclusive' presentation prepared by OEM for tender we will expose our capabilities!

This is exactly how Pakistani army treats it public, just believe whatever we say, that we do, but when what is visible is not matching what we were told, we are given these lollipops.

Q). How will an image, cropped, zoomed out, degraded in resolution will expose our capabilities? And if it does why were these claim made at first place? That time they didn't knew if images in public space don't match our claims we won't be able to release the evidence?


It feels like Demonetization saga, even after complete failure in execution we are told even today that it prevented this or that. Just not the truth.

 

[vstol Jockey]

There is no possibility there.


Don't complicate things too much, it's impossible and those are not impact marks.

You can do millions of sortie and drop tens of millions of such bombs in similar conditions and never will they all fall like the one in image. There is not even a circumstantial evidence that can support these as impact marks.




Israel even when surrounded by enemies of much bigger size never hesitates in realising videos and neither does any other country. None of them capabilities get exposed, however here, somehow even after manufacturing nothing original and most of what we used is readily available in public and can he obtained in 'exclusive' presentation prepared by OEM for tender we will expose our capabilities!

This is exactly how Pakistani army treats it public, just believe whatever we say, that we do, but when what is visible is not matching what we were told, we are given these lollipops.

Q). How will an image, cropped, zoomed out, degraded in resolution will expose our capabilities? And if it does why were these claim made at first place? That time they didn't knew if images in public space don't match our claims we won't be able to release the evidence?


It feels like Demonetization saga, even after complete failure in execution we are told even today that it prevented this or that. Just not the truth.

I will say only onething. In Sea Harriers, we did toss bombing and the release time and point was chosen by the WAC while we flew at 4.5G. The bombs even after 10km toss, fell in straight line. Either you are more qualified than me and have better experince than I have, or you are not aware of what it all means.

 

[Paro]

We live in a country where one photo might compromise an entire air force’s capability. And one loss of a pilot can stand down the entire military might of 1.3 billion people. What a sad state of affairs.