Attack Helicopters of IAF - LCH Prachand, AH-64E Apache : Updates & Discussions

Ankit Kumar said:
Strela 2, 1st gen stingers, HN5

These MANPADs are 3 decade old technologies and easily available to terrorists around the world.

Without a self protection suite, a couple of rag tag terrorist will bring down the LCH.

And you mean to say that LCH is deployed against infantry of China equipped with FN6 systems?

Whoever says that LCH was deployed in active service (meaning in case a conflict happened, it was kept armed and ready to be used) , is foolish.
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It was only mentioned LCH was deployed in Ladakh, so obvious vague information. My guess is it was for recon patrol only which it can handle with limited ew & just the gun. IAF probably has enough high end options already before using lch seriously. 2 attack heli does not even scratch the surface. Its a trial run if it ever happened, but nonetheless a confident on its existing systems sort of trial run. Armed forces in such areas do with way less capability at times gear wise, and we are talking about a flying machine.

About the manpads, has any manpad yet brought down any heli in areas we deployed IAF yet? No, because we are not in a war/martial law stage, rather in a high alert state. So if such an attack happens, only then necessary step will be taken. Before that its moot point, same risk as a bird hitting the heli. Look at the mission systems in previous poster. We have to accept ideal vs existing systems gap for some more time.

I still do not get why you all are so sold on everything being in place before any kind of usage. That part is for operational deployment after full certification & weapon integration. For lsp series trial run it can do with less capability.

As per the above pic, HAL cited payload delivery is 920kg, previously I thought it is ~700kg, only the inboard stations could carry quad rack(8-12 atgm max), & 3 hour endurance.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
LCH is such a beauty😍😍
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If you are fond of beauty,ask sunny leone, Aishwarya or any other Bollywood actres) supermodels to stand near border.
Weapon platforms need weapons,not ONLY aesthetics, as on today LCH is just a flying dubba with chin mounted low calibre gun.
 
Read this piece written by ex pilot on LCH development, especially Hydra should.
It also mentions first A2A missile fired from LCH back in 2019.

m.rediff.com

'LCH Outperformed Other Aircraft In Ladakh'

All of India welcomes the Light Combat Helicopter into the Armed Forces arsenal and wishes it a safe tenure and happy shooting. May it rule the skies and ensure that the enemies are given a fitting reply when the need arises.
m.rediff.com m.rediff.com
 
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marich01 said:
Read this piece written by ex pilot on LCH development, especially Hydra should.
It also mentions first A2A missile fired from LCH back in 2019.

m.rediff.com

'LCH Outperformed Other Aircraft In Ladakh'

All of India welcomes the Light Combat Helicopter into the Armed Forces arsenal and wishes it a safe tenure and happy shooting. May it rule the skies and ensure that the enemies are given a fitting reply when the need arises.
m.rediff.com m.rediff.com
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This is probably the first time in aviation history that a platform was deployed operationally even before it was inducted into the armed forces.
 
Sathya said:
deployed operationally
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Deployment for testing is different from operational tasks.

1. Was the helicopter under operational command of Armed Forces or HAL ? Was the personal operating the helicopter under Armed forces or HAL?

2. Was the Helicopter ready for any kind of hostilities? Was the helicopter ready to undertake any kind of offensive operations?

What the above article means is that the Helicopters sensor and ability were tested as a part of its trials. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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marich01 said:
Read this piece written by ex pilot on LCH development, especially Hydra should.
It also mentions first A2A missile fired from LCH back in 2019.

m.rediff.com

'LCH Outperformed Other Aircraft In Ladakh'

All of India welcomes the Light Combat Helicopter into the Armed Forces arsenal and wishes it a safe tenure and happy shooting. May it rule the skies and ensure that the enemies are given a fitting reply when the need arises.
m.rediff.com m.rediff.com
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Basic funda of an attac copter is its air to ground role. Firing an air to air missile, is just a secondary role.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
Deployment for testing is different from operational tasks.

1. Was the helicopter under operational command of Armed Forces or HAL ? Was the personal operating the helicopter under Armed forces or HAL?

2. Was the Helicopter ready for any kind of hostilities? Was the helicopter ready to undertake any kind of offensive operations?

What the above article means is that the Helicopters sensor and ability were tested as a part of its trials. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I dont beleive the report of deploying LCH for active duty during 2020 standoff. But again,If IAF deployed a non inducted platform for combat duty, its shows the pathetic condition our forces when comes to modern weaponry. Peoples who are going high for that nees should understand this basic thing.
 
Hydra said:
I dont beleive the report of deploying LCH for active duty during 2020 standoff. But again,If IAF deployed a non inducted platform for combat duty, its shows the pathetic condition our forces when comes to modern weaponry. Peoples who are going high for that nees should understand this basic thing.
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I really want HAL and authorities to get the ATGM integrated and Self Protection Suite added.

Self protection suite is already active on Rudra for years now, and the Helina has been successfully Integrated too, and the orders for the same should come in near future. So it's not like it's something really tough.

These two basic tasks, once completed will alone ensure a order of 100+ units from Army Aviation.
 
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The 2 LCH that were deployed were TD versions, I read somewhere it was although token gesture, it also marked a rather unforeseen trust on a new platform by IAF. There are stages of development, Tech demo version, prototype, then comes limited series production which is the current inductee of 3 airframes. LCH has not yet reached series production which will have more sophistication as an all round product. Even right now the improvements are noticeable, LCH payload increased to 920kg from 700kg before, endurance to 4 hrs compared to 3 hr 10 mins before, area coverage 750 km.
Obviously if you want to pitch it up against Apache specs it won't happen overnight.

Now that HAL has shown full armament package it will be done in stages too. LSP airframes are not the final product, it will have several upgraded avionics etc in full series production, which will likely have the most weapons integrated in it. Saw people linking a cockpit image of the controls which has ARM in weapons station & saying LCH will have anti rad missile integrated too.

As for the deep strike part, its a choice for IAF or army should the need arise. From my view, highly unlikely army/IAF want to fight deep into enemy territory. It will be mostly skirmishes along the border, not too deep inside. And they have several assets & means for that role before LCH is called in that role. So LCH will have due time to get ready for such a role. A basic offensive capability needs to be built first for a new attack gunship, that capability is being able to defend own territory & destroy the aggressor enemy assets. Then you go to the next stage of offensive deep strike.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
I really want HAL and authorities to get the ATGM integrated and Self Protection Suite added.

Self protection suite is already active on Rudra for years now, and the Helina has been successfully Integrated too, and the orders for the same should come in near future. So it's not like it's something really tough.

These two basic tasks, once completed will alone ensure a order of 100+ units from Army Aviation.
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Apparently MoD exploring idea of local manufacture of hellfire missile too? I don't know what happened with standard atgm across the fleet part, but it seems they probably want both hellfire & helina/dhruvastra integrated across the fleet. Maybe economy of scale or something.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
I really want HAL and authorities to get the ATGM integrated and Self Protection Suite added.

Self protection suite is already active on Rudra for years now, and the Helina has been successfully Integrated too, and the orders for the same should come in near future. So it's not like it's something really tough.

These two basic tasks, once completed will alone ensure a order of 100+ units from Army Aviation.
Click to expand...

There is a limit to bringing the features of the heavy-duty machine to the LCH, as it is a lightweight helicopter and missiles can be added later. These are additions that can be made at any time in the future. But the priority should be to first induct LCH 100+ for the Army and another 100+ for the IAF.
We should start working on a heavy-duty attack helicopter based on the IMRH platform. HAL's rotary division does have a very capable team. They can do things if we take initiative.
 
marich01 said:
Apparently MoD exploring idea of local manufacture of hellfire missile too? I don't know what happened with standard atgm across the fleet part, but it seems they probably want both hellfire & helina/dhruvastra integrated across the fleet. Maybe economy of scale or something.
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Hellfire the variant which can be useful for our scenario is guided by MMW radar. As far as anti Armour usage goes , we will need iir guidance.
 
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TARGET said:
There is a limit to bringing the features of the heavy-duty machine to the LCH, as it is a lightweight helicopter and missiles can be added later. These are additions that can be made at any time in the future. But the priority should be to first induct LCH 100+ for the Army and another 100+ for the IAF.
We should start working on a heavy-duty attack helicopter based on the IMRH platform. HAL's rotary division does have a very capable team. They can do things if we take initiative.
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Single engine Cobra AH1 is a light Helicopter and it can carry ATGMs.

See
1. ATGMs
2. Self Protection suite.

These are no advanced systems. These are basic requirements of a modern age contempt attack helicopter. If you want to remove the 2nd option, go ahead and add protection to withstand 5 kg of explosive charge.

These 2 are real basic items. Nothing fancy. Without these 2 items , LCH has ZERO survival chances , 1 cm inside the enemy's airspace.

Once these 2 are done, you will see Army ordering a large number.

As for Airforce, they don't need this system. They should invest in trying to stop themselves from reaching Pakistan Airforce numbers. Helicopters are not for Airforce, at best 60-70 SAR helicopters. Everything else should be ideally under Army Aviation.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Single engine Cobra AH1 is a light Helicopter and it can carry ATGMs.

See
1. ATGMs
2. Self Protection suite.

These are no advanced systems. These are basic requirements of a modern age contempt attack helicopter. If you want to remove the 2nd option, go ahead and add protection to withstand 5 kg of explosive charge.

These 2 are real basic items. Nothing fancy. Without these 2 items , LCH has ZERO survival chances , 1 cm inside the enemy's airspace.

Once these 2 are done, you will see Army ordering a large number.

As for Airforce, they don't need this system. They should invest in trying to stop themselves from reaching Pakistan Airforce numbers. Helicopters are not for Airforce, at best 60-70 SAR helicopters. Everything else should be ideally under Army Aviation.
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These fan boys are literally killing our military capabilities, i am not talking about fan boys in this forum, the big shots of industry & ministry. They were pushing uncooked food in their mouth.
 
What are people's thoughts on helicopters overall? I think Ukraine's war has downgraded helicopters in terms of importance.

Drones, atgms and cost really make you question the utility of helicopters given the primary role being anti tank generally.

Apache is the same price as a F-35 basically.
 
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