The Russians are inept.
If you got a decent machine and a decent combined arms strategy in place, you will get the results.
A helicopter standalone will not be enough. It has to work in combination.
Claims like Nirbhay is deployed or QRSAM is deployed doesn't do anyone any good.
Its October already, in few months it will be 2023, I am waiting for P75I and MMRCA, and what the civil inepts do..
Redundancy would call for a iir guided fire and forget ATGM. Hellfire isn't one.
I think everyone is aware of self-protection and that ATGM is missing. These accessories are planned to be integrated into the LCH and should not be a barrier to inducting the LCH system into the armed forces. We made a similar mistake with the LCA acquisition. Half-cooked is the best reason to purchase a foreign mall. This government is pushing indigenous content, which is why I believe DRDO is planning to integrate the indigenous IDAS system and ATGM. If we want, we can easily fit a foreign IDAS system that is already fitted with RUDRA. In the case of Hellfire, it can integrate the laser-guided version with LCH.
Laser guided ATGM does not provide fire and forget capability. Further laser guided systems have capability restrictions if weather is not clear. That's why Army rejected the iir seeker twice, untill development got it right.
Most of the conflicts will not start in clear weather, the enemy will either start it at night or will take advantage of weather. In these situations laser guided ATGMs fail to serve the purpose.
On the ordering of more LSP, it is not feasible. Army is putting out RFIs for acquiring just 40-50,000 units of BPJs, funds are not easy to come by. Infact they are extremely scare. They have over 100 Rudra now in Army Aviation which can actually be deployed for offensive operations.
The LSP production started before COVID happened and till date we haven't seen even 1 prototype fitted with the self protection suite. It is concerning.
Why do u want our force to induct unfinished products? Will it serves the purpose of taking down enemy positions? Answer is no. LCH as on today is good only to fielding during Republic day parade.
And there is no guarantee that DRDO will develop an air launched missile on time, we have the example of NAG.
We all know what an unfinished or mediocre platform perform during war. Ukrain war is an example.
Are you saying the Rocket Pods are not there for an A2G role?
. Anyways I do agree it’s still not ready to go into uncontested airspace without its SPS Suite and not ideally armed without an operational ATGM.Where did you hear about this?
A LSP for 10-15 units is fine. Gives a chances to production partners to rectify any issues which might come up during full scale production and the users can give feedback too.
But this shouldn't mean order a 100 of these. That doesn't make sense even production wise. What happens when Army orders 100 LSP units now and then it's found out that there is a serious defect in maintenance? That will mean very costly refits for 100 of units. That's just a waste of resources.
5 units for Army seems fine for now. Let them fly it for 6 months to a year and see the feedback.
More shouldn't be pushed down the throat for now.
Then what's your alternative solution to the Chinese helicopter number? purchase from outside?
I hope we get the weapons sorted. In case something happens between India and Europe, practically all the weapons the canon, the rockets the a2a missile will be under threat. Its time DRDO gets a local alternative for rockets which starts production in India. And hopefully they are able to create a local canon too. Gasha canons are licensed in India, they are not bad systems.Are you saying the Rocket Pods are not there for an A2G role?
I have been saying everywhere, there is no way we can catch Chinese Numbers. For example in Navy they will likely have 50 or so destroyer/cruisers in few years. We cannot match it, nor should we try.
We should have an internal target of what makes us comfortable of getting the objectives in a war. A white paper on defence is needed.
I am not sure how you came up with this conclusion that it's not fire and forget. Once the Target acquisition happened, the helicopter don't need to be in the line of sight. It just needed to be guided from the Heli screen for LOBL mode.
The Helinaand Dhruvastra are third generation, Lock on Before Launch (LOBL) fire and forget Anti-Tank Guided Missiles that can engage targets both in direct hit mode as well as top attack mode. The system has all-weather day and night capability and can defeat battle tanks with conventional armour as well as with explosive reactive armour. It is one of the most-advanced anti-tank weapons in the world. Now, the missile systems are ready for induction.
‘Helina’ and ‘Dhruvastra’ Link
Why u insisting only indigenous solution? Will LCH serve the purposes of fighting Chinese now?
Doesnt matter what color is, the cat should catch the mice. When u dont have any alternative from domestic market, buy it from outside.
I was talking about Hellfire Semi Active Laser Guided version.
Helina is iir guided. No issues for that.
U know even if 100 LCH gets inducted before ATGM s are ready, we ll train personnel with it, create facilities for it, make many SoPs fir it.
And once we get missile, we can simply integrate it and get all those 100 + LCH operationally ready in a year. .
If it is complex issues where we are not confident that missile integration may require major changes in air frame..
Or if any major changes are already in progress, we can delay . .
However after Dhruv & Rudra, we shouldn't delay induction right?
Contrary to popular belief, helis actually did deep attack in Ukr and quite successfully. Its part of propaganda to say otherwise, that attack helis are failed because some are shot down. The pitched up nose rocket attacks we saw are sort of SEAD operation because the enemy were using manpads as AD weapon. So theoretically although it is ground attack, in reality its a form of SEAD mission. Commanders who order such missions, or in general heli borne missions are prepared to take loss of machines. Ukr also lost loads of their tanks, lots of heli & planes, bmp, armored vehicles, given by every western nation to an extent they had to curb on info leaking out. Does that make those destroyed platforms inferior? They switched to common cars for transport & missions. Does that elevate a simple 4 wheeler into combat vehicle status?
Why do we think US regularly inducts hundreds of machines & later sometimes abandons as we saw in Afghan? machines numbers are usually not the concern. Its the weapon that is needed primary importance. You abandon something by removing functionality while leaving Afghan, or you abandon while retreat on field, or get shot down after major performance in battlefield, net effect is the same, loss of assets. It does not make a heli platform more or less lethal, that is up to how it is used & with what weapon.
Speaking of weapons, the one part media got right is the both army/IAF failing to select a foreign atgm in 4-5 years. HAL will integrate whichever atgm they are asked to. This is a major issue, that there is increasing rivalry between the two forces commands. In the even of a war, these two, especially army generals will want all the glory for themselves & end up fighting IAF generals each other. Like ones sam system mistaking others asset & shooting it down level of incompetence. This is something MoD needs to address properly & not just by kadi ninda. This is extremely detrimental to our forces capability & now affecting even unforseen situation.
Why do we think US regularly inducts hundreds of machines & later sometimes abandons as we saw in Afghan? machines numbers are usually not the concern. Its the weapon that is needed primary importance. You abandon something by removing functionality while leaving Afghan, or you abandon while retreat on field, or get shot down after major performance in battlefield, net effect is the same, loss of assets. It does not make a heli platform more or less lethal, that is up to how it is used & with what weapon.
Speaking of weapons, the one part media got right is the both army/IAF failing to select a foreign atgm in 4-5 years. HAL will integrate whichever atgm they are asked to. This is a major issue, that there is increasing rivalry between the two forces commands. In the even of a war, these two, especially army generals will want all the glory for themselves & end up fighting IAF generals each other. Like ones sam system mistaking others asset & shooting it down level of incompetence. This is something MoD needs to address properly & not just by kadi ninda. This is extremely detrimental to our forces capability & now affecting even unforseen situation.
The term training is a broad perspective when comes to armed forces. Flight training is one of them, the weapon familiarisation, preparation of tactics, weapon upkeep meant etc. Nothing except flight training will be achieved with un cooked airframes.
The currently inducted 10-15 is sufficient fore flight training, if forces induct 100s of samples without weapon, then 2 major things they need to face 1) Aging of airframe 2) Forces will be in back seat when comes to bargaining. If they induct 100s, our labs will not be in hurry to develop ATGMs. Now there is a hope that if desi ATGMs failed to see the light, DRDO may agree to integrate foreign weapons on LCH to secure orders. This option will be impossible if forces induct it large numbers.
We already operating Rudra in large numbers, without integrating an ATGM. If my understandings are are right, we have a huge inventories equally toothless but better self protected Rudras. Why to add LCH in that league? Let them integrate LCH with ATGMs, self protection suits, then we can think about of adding more such to the inventories.
Prachand, India's new Light Combat Helicopter, doesn't yet have main arsenal or protection suite
IAF inducted new helicopter Monday, but it'll get anti-tank guided missile only by mid-2023, while air-to-air missiles haven't yet been ordered, it is learnt.
theprint.in
"The plan was to have an indigenous system on board the LCH designed by DRDO, but the process is yet to be completed, the sources said"