Beating the Indian Navy without going broke

Agreed...but something has to give when your perceived enemy is hatching a chicken egg and you're sitting on an ostrich egg! :D

Let's list it out...
Army:
Most of their tanks are obsolete T-55 cousins. They have less modern tanks than they did in 1965.
Artillery is nearing obsolescence and completely outgunned by India's upcoming artillery.

Air force:
The jets are outdated. Even the F-16 Block 52s do not match up to the Mig-29UPG let alone the M-2000UPG.
They have some decent, but relatively old-tech SAMs, and not in enough numbers. The HQ-16 is relatively newer, but doesn't even match up to the PAC-3 or S-300PMU-2.
Their force multipliers are turkey shoot.

Navy:
1 Brahmos per capital ship. Enough said.
 
The Pakistanis were suckered into believing that BMD is not possible when we are talking about short and medium range BMs since the time to react to an attack is too small to employ adequate countermeasures, 5 to 15 minutes. It's true from a certain PoV, ie, if your BMD system is manned. Which means you need your men to be constantly on the alert, which is unrealistic. So what we have done is make our BMD fully unmanned. So even if our boys are sleeping at the controls, the BMD system is working 24/7. Our BMD can react from first detection to launching an interceptor in less than 1 minute, without human input. This will give us a massive advantage when it comes to surviving the first strike.
I highly doubt its possible. When MH370 went missing it turned out our radars were switched off to save electricity. wtf. With our attitude, if we are caught by surprise our BMDs will be the first target, not our cities.
 
No such thing as cheap superweapon concept. Everything has counters and counter-counters etc....you overall long term get what you invest in.
Besides any casual remote sensing satellite can give away the exact position of a huge carrier battle group. China will probably give pak navy idea of our position. I don’t think detection is half as much a problem as the author makes out here.
 
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The Chinese will fight India to the last Pakistani. They will never do anything that will compromise their own safety.

We need the capability to counter Chinese ASBMs anyway. So, when it comes to the threat of ASBMs, it's simple, whatever works against the Chinese will work against Pakistan. The same if China transfers their bigger ships over to Pakistan. As long as our navy is capable of fighting the PLAN, changing PLAN flags to PN flags is not going to affect anything.



We will not unilaterally use nukes first. We will have to be forced to use nukes, but our objective will be a first strike. And surviving the enemy's first strike is also our core objective, that's why the BMD.

The Pakistanis were suckered into believing that BMD is not possible when we are talking about short and medium range BMs since the time to react to an attack is too small to employ adequate countermeasures, 5 to 15 minutes. It's true from a certain PoV, ie, if your BMD system is manned. Which means you need your men to be constantly on the alert, which is unrealistic. So what we have done is make our BMD fully unmanned. So even if our boys are sleeping at the controls, the BMD system is working 24/7. Our BMD can react from first detection to launching an interceptor in less than 1 minute, without human input. This will give us a massive advantage when it comes to surviving the first strike.
Even the most modern BMD has limitations.
S-400 cannot track anything above Mach 15.. I repeat, cant track...Meaning it can detect above that sped also, but cannot track accurately enough to actually fire a BMD.
Then the question of timings. At what point the BMD radar starts detecting and at what point it can track? All depends on may many things.
Most importantly the speed and radar cross section of Incoming missiles.
 
What to believe and what not to. One of the youtube video claims it was a Nuclear submarine and another claims it was diesel electric. Devil knows what you tracked and what you are claiming.

I think a diesel electric was sent to monitor the shipping and probably get acoustic signatures of the ships for our passive sonar arrays. Some kind of technical issue must have forced it upwards. I’m guessing some engine trouble. Unlike the bs in pak media at the time it is impossible to force a submarine to surface, hell even if you fire upon it you can’t do it.

It’s not a nuclear submarine because our nuke submarine are bmd and not hunter killers class till now. You don’t deploy these assets for house keeping requirements like data collection and stalking.

I highly doubt its possible. When MH370 went missing it turned out our radars were switched off to save electricity. wtf. With our attitude, if we are caught by surprise our BMDs will be the first target, not our cities.

The bmds we’re building are mobile as far as I know

Ahem ...Ahem... We detected, tracked and escorted away your quitest diesel electric Shishumar class submarine in November 2016.





You can’t force a submarine to surface.
 
You can’t force a submarine to surface.
Can do...
Its an international protocol.
When a submarine gets detected and becomes aware that its detected,tracked and in danger. It surfaces to show that its not an aggressor. Its like raising white flag in Submarine warfare.
 
Can do...
Its an international protocol.
When a submarine gets detected and becomes aware that its detected,tracked and in danger. It surfaces to show that its not an aggressor. Its like raising white flag in Submarine warfare.

Yeah.....we’re following international protocol to show we’re non aggressor in international waters where we have every right to operate. Sure makes sense.
 
I highly doubt its possible. When MH370 went missing it turned out our radars were switched off to save electricity. wtf. With our attitude, if we are caught by surprise our BMDs will be the first target, not our cities.

That's okay. Radars in specific places are switched on or off based on need. Not the case with the ones looking into Pak and China.
 
Didn't Pakistan reach Delhi too? What Rawalpindi says about it? :)

Not Delhi, but here is a picture of Pakistani flag on Kishangarh fort Rajistan.
1965-Indo-Pak-War-Memorabilia-Pakistani-flag-at-Kishangarh-Fort-in-1965-Photos-and-Mementos-of...jpg
 
Not Delhi, but here is a picture of Pakistani flag on Kishangarh fort Rajistan.
View attachment 3168
We can do this all day. Like posting patton tank pictures from Longewal and Asal Uttar. Posting picture of Pakistani surrender from '71. POW ticket. You know the drill. Ultimately it comes down to this :-
1. You don't have enough Army strength to fight toe to toe with India.
2. Your equipment is no longer top of the line like '65. Its bottom of the barrel Chinese stuff.
3. Your new patron is a neophyte.
4. Your economy is messed up good.
5. India is now 8 times bigger economically and growing faster than you.
6. Indian government has a revnue of 580 billion dollars, more the Pakistan's GDP. Pakistan's government revenue is mere 47 billion dollars. Meanwhile India's defence budget is 46 billion dollars.

There is nothing Pakistan can do to catch-up with India, economically or militraily. That ship has sailed in 1990 and got a tail wind called Mussharraf in 2000s
 
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Even the most modern BMD has limitations.
S-400 cannot track anything above Mach 15.. I repeat, cant track...Meaning it can detect above that sped also, but cannot track accurately enough to actually fire a BMD.

The S-400's radars can track faster targets than that. It is the interceptors that cannot destroy faster targets than that.

Doesn't matter though, it's been designed to defeat most of Pakistan's missiles.

Then the question of timings. At what point the BMD radar starts detecting and at what point it can track? All depends on may many things.
Most importantly the speed and radar cross section of Incoming missiles.

We are not worried about that. The LRTR can track a cricket ball from 1500Km away.

In a few years, we will be able to stop all missiles in Pak's inventory, including hypersonic cruise missiles, if any. We will also be introducing boost phase and terminal phase laser BMD with our Phase 2 program based on land, sea and air platforms. And there's also the development of midcourse and ASAT capability. Our BMD plans are really big.
 
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S-400 cannot track anything above Mach 15.. I repeat, cant track...Meaning it can detect above that sped also, but cannot track accurately enough to actually fire a BMD.
1. S-400 is not exactly a BMD. We have PDV and AAD for that role. S400's main role is to take out an enemy airplane or cruise missile.
2. India may also buy THAAD or NASAM to defend high value targets against Ballistic missiles.
 
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All of this assumes that India has the guts to do such a thing. I unfrotunately do not consider that a given. India did nothing when China turned Pakistan into a nuclear and ballistic missile power. Sure you can say that it was a different time, but even now, I wouldn't take it for granted that India would do anything; especially when they fail to even take basic counter-steps like passing on ballistic missile technology to Vietnam in a tit-for-tat.
That is not about guts but common sense. Why pretend non-aggression when the other person is openly hostile? What purpose will to serve? You are forgetting that Pakistan was helped by USA all through till about 2005. Nuclear bombs were given by a European country to AQ Khan, not China. The liquid fuel ballistic missile was developed from USA sounding rockets. China only gave 600km missile to Pakistan and that too of older technology with less accurate RLG INS. Chinese help in nuclear technology was limited to giving some Uranium and maraging steel forgings but not the technology.

Don't believe in propaganda that China is arming Pakistan. It was USA that armed Pakistan, not China. China does not like jihadis and they know the true nature of Pakistan. Pakistan is only pretending to be friend with China and given a chance, will not hesitate attacking China. That is why India is not over-reacting by giving technology to Vietnam.

We will not unilaterally use nukes first. We will have to be forced to use nukes, but our objective will be a first strike. And surviving the enemy's first strike is also our core objective, that's why the BMD.
Why would that be so? Why do you want India to get hit first? What difference does it make between 1st and second strike? WHy should India choose second strike? This is not a new war after all. War has been going on for long time and there is no need to show restraint unnecesarily

The turning point in foreseeable future is going to be when the Indian Navy acquires a fleet of SSNs (first boat likely in next 8 years). At that point, Pak Navy's undersea combatants (including the yet-to-come S-26 AIP SSK and S-30 conventional SSB) will become largely irrelevant. The PN surface capability already became irrelevant vis-a-vis IN about 10 years ago.

A full fleet of 6-12 SSNs will ensure sufficient capability against any possible PLAN incursion (with or without Chinese CBG) in IOR.

Pakistan does not have SSB. Hell, Pakistan does not have any proper solid fuel ballistic missile, forget submarine launched ones. They are cruise missiles like Babur which is being planned to be mated in submarine.

PLAN is not insane to send its submarines to support Pakistan. Just look at Indian geography and ask yourself if China can ever gain in naval war against India. China and India have closest distance of 3500+km from Andaman to Chinese mainland. That is a very big distance to travel. In case the fleet is damaged, there is no repair base either and everyone in the vessel have to die. China can't come close to India in war. The possible help can come from NATO clowns. They are thugs who regularly irritate and India has to be ready to tackle the,

But most interesting will be the equation that will develop once IN SSNs start stalking the PN SSBs. I don't think there was ever any instance in history where any nation enjoyed such an advantage in having a knife to the throat of the enemy's second-strike capability so well as what the IN SSNs can achieve against the conventional Pak ballistic missile subs.

India already has SSN. Arihant class is a mix of SSBN and SSN. It was actually made as SSN but changed to SSBN in 1999 just make it appear less threatening. Arihant can carry ballistic missile as well as all equipment of SSN.

Let's not count our chickens before they hatch. The SSNs are a long way away.
Arihant class is 6000tons which is nothing but SSN category. No SSBN would be as small as this. Also, 750km Sagarika missile is just a joke. WHat is the point of having such short ranged missile from submarine? How can India do a meaningful strike on slightly internal cities with it?

I highly doubt its possible. When MH370 went missing it turned out our radars were switched off to save electricity. wtf. With our attitude, if we are caught by surprise our BMDs will be the first target, not our cities.
That was a lie. India is not revealing many things.

Not Delhi, but here is a picture of Pakistani flag on Kishangarh fort Rajistan.
View attachment 3168
Capturing desert lands is rather easy. Capturing real meaningful land is the hard part
 
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Most of these people had personal grudges against Field Marshal Ayub Khan and hence their opinion is maligned if not wrong.
Thats is your conjecture, You have Ayub who was handed down a "Defeat". None of the objectives of 65 were achieved by PA, both Op Gibraltor and Op Grandslam failed in it's objective. In addition PA was not prepared for India's offensive- so a massive planning failure there. On the other hand you have Nur Khan, who I hope doesn't need any introduction to any Pakistani.



Pakistan only suported kashmiri freedom fighters in 1965 , something Pakistan is doing to this date wnd will continue,
With Due respect, that is utter BS. Learn what Operation Gibraltor and how it failed in it's objectives.

but Inda in 1965 opened 6-7 battle fronts simultaneously and Pakistan fought back on all those battle fronts.
offcourse it did, it fought to it's strength which was it's numbers. Indian military works as per it's planning, especially since 1962 unlike PA's fiefdom.

Plus the people of Pakistan fought alonside the Army.
If an militia has to be conscripted to fight an enemy that your entire defense policy is derived from, then your military's planning has utterly already failed.

On 8th September 1965 India attacked Tharparker and Pakistan rmy was already busy at Lahore , Sialkot and other sectors far off from Tharparker.
When India attacked, 50,000 Locals picked up weapons and repelled Indian attack.
In case of an all out Indian atack, will that public participation happen again? Yes it will if needed.
So in any war on main land Pakistan, India will not just fight Pakistan army but also millions of armed and well versed with weapons, civilians of Pakistan.
If that indeed is your insurance, I would gladly take those odds against the 2nd largest standing army on the face of this planet.