Brahmos Supersonic Cruise Missile : News, Updates and Discussions

Big update on Nirbhay/ITCM

Dr Patrick Kennedy , Joint Director ITCM project confirms that 1 more test is planned this month-end , GTRE engine STFE will be used this time as well, making it 4th ITCM flight with STFE.
The missile has completed at least 1 known 1000km firing range test , with the NPO Saturn engine , all params met. STFE would have to prove the same , which will pave way for full reliance on cruise missile test. GTRE is confident on their engine performance.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582986002876239872

https://twitter.com/x/status/1583017420012556288

Below part I am not sure, but possible.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582993300054605824
 
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marich01 said:
Big update on Nirbhay/ITCM

Dr Patrick Kennedy , Joint Director ITCM project confirms that 1 more test is planned this month-end , GTRE engine STFE will be used this time as well, making it 4th ITCM flight with STFE.
The missile has completed at least 1 known 1000km firing range test , with the NPO Saturn engine , all params met. STFE would have to prove the same , which will pave way for full reliance on cruise missile test. GTRE is confident on their engine performance.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582986002876239872

https://twitter.com/x/status/1583017420012556288

Below part I am not sure, but possible.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582993300054605824
Click to expand...
Why are people still so much confused?. Dr Tessy thomas in interview with Ananth Krishnan explained it last year. Nirbhay project concluded. ITCM-TD project will certify manik engine. Service requirement specific projects like LACM,SLCM will come after that.
 
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Series of posts according to new info available at that time :
Ashwin said:
I think shiv arror is wrong here. If you go by Anantha Krishnan's report from Feb. The nirbhay project is technically closed. Multiple new projects LRLACM,SLCM and ITCM replaces it. (Makes sense to continue calling the land variant Nirbhay though )
  • LRLACM fired from Brahmos UVLS. ie, ship-based
  • Indigenous Technology Cruise Missile (ITCM) ground and air-launched with RF seeker.
  • SLCM (Submarine Launched Cruise Missile) development started in 2017, Confirmed multiple times
There is no evidence that these will have an additional stage with 'ramjet engine'. Even the russian Kalibr only have solid fuel rocket at the terminal stage. It will be very expensive and too difficult to master. And honestly unnecesary.

The LFRJ propultion will be used for the STAR (Supersonic Target system) project.

@hellbent
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Tatvamasi said:
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Ashwin said:
So ITCM program a TD program to validate Manik engine. It won't go into production.
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Ashwin said:
Why are people still so much confused?. Dr Tessy thomas in interview with Ananth Krishnan explained it last year. Nirbhay project concluded. ITCM-TD project will certify manik engine. Service requirement specific projects like LACM,SLCM will come after that.
Click to expand...
They are probably also directed by Gov to increase indigenous content , ie replace some important sections with local LRU, which would further need some attention & delay to project. Well not exactly delay, rather say different priority temporarily. This is what I think is going on with most projects, Gov pushing for more indi content, so priority sometimes switching to creating a desi made alternative to an imported sub system/part which itself would need its own attention priority. Basically a good tech development culture/habit is growing which will serve well in long run. Heard one of the planes project director saying they have to utilize resource available to them wisely across projects.
Service specific projects subsystems like the LRLACm launcher for navy are already appearing means some good progress done. They also fixed the manik engine issues apparently.
 
marich01 said:
They are probably also directed by Gov to increase indigenous content , ie replace some important sections with local LRU, which would further need some attention & delay to project. Well not exactly delay, rather say different priority temporarily. This is what I think is going on with most projects, Gov pushing for more indi content, so priority sometimes switching to creating a desi made alternative to an imported sub system/part which itself would need its own attention priority. Basically a good tech development culture/habit is growing which will serve well in long run. Heard one of the planes project director saying they have to utilize resource available to them wisely across projects.
Service specific projects subsystems like the LRLACm launcher for navy are already appearing means some good progress done. They also fixed the manik engine issues apparently.
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Not at all. In the case of missiles, the indigenization roadmap was planned a long back at the time of Kalam i suppose. There wasn't much of choice other than going in that direction. The speed of development and increase of indian content is just a culmination of that decade-long effort.

About Nirbhay, the useless lab called ADE dragged the program for far too long then they realized it won't reach a meaningful product anytime soon. Thus they made it a "tech demo" and closed it. Now going for the separate service-specific requirement projects. Labs like RCI/DRDL made huge strides forward in the last decade. Those will come handly for ADE to make it successful this time i hope.
 
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Ashwin said:
Not at all. In the case of missiles, the indigenization roadmap was planned a long back at the time of Kalam i suppose. There wasn't much of choice other than going in that direction. The speed of development and increase of indian content is just a culmination of that decade-long effort.
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What you say is perfectly fine project, research and implementation wise. I was pointing to the part that current gov is taking indigenisation effort from very basic stuffs. Take Brahmos, Dr Atul Rane specifically mentioned some important points.
because its a JV they are committed to always buying a percentage of stuff off Rus. This is in contract. Current level is like 68% & they said they do not want to go higher than that for the missile part. Also mentioned profit is always 50-50 shared.
They are indigenising most parts. For instance, ground launch system (the vehicle, launcher, subsystems everything) is 100% indigenised. This goes to level of nut bolts, hydrolics, the TEL every part, tyres, front glass everything. This is what I mean. Lets say I am the project director, current gov effectively tells me to source everything from within country as much possible, from bare basics to high level stuff. This was not the case before. Even simple nut bolts, small sub parts could be sourced from foreign supplier before. I have to show MoD now that a high percentage of the inventory I am using can now be sourced from within India and made in India. This is a big push & change of direction for me which was not taken seriously before.
The 4 positive indi lists are what I meant, that current gov is going by the three forces entire inventory lists (thousands of items) and pushing to manufacture everything here.
The thing is, this demand definitely played part in delaying projects before, it definitely did in near past more. Dev & assemble teams now look for local supplier which can definitely push timelines further. But its a positive imo, we are building good eco system.
 
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Everything is ending at the precision of the system. The Ukraine crisis has shown that precision and dodging the air defence is the biggest parameter to win on ground.
 
marich01 said:
What you say is perfectly fine project, research and implementation wise. I was pointing to the part that current gov is taking indigenisation effort from very basic stuffs. Take Brahmos, Dr Atul Rane specifically mentioned some important points.
because its a JV they are committed to always buying a percentage of stuff off Rus. This is in contract. Current level is like 68% & they said they do not want to go higher than that for the missile part. Also mentioned profit is always 50-50 shared.
They are indigenising most parts. For instance, ground launch system (the vehicle, launcher, subsystems everything) is 100% indigenised. This goes to level of nut bolts, hydrolics, the TEL every part, tyres, front glass everything. This is what I mean. Lets say I am the project director, current gov effectively tells me to source everything from within country as much possible, from bare basics to high level stuff. This was not the case before. Even simple nut bolts, small sub parts could be sourced from foreign supplier before. I have to show MoD now that a high percentage of the inventory I am using can now be sourced from within India and made in India. This is a big push & change of direction for me which was not taken seriously before.
The 4 positive indi lists are what I meant, that current gov is going by the three forces entire inventory lists (thousands of items) and pushing to manufacture everything here.
The thing is, this demand definitely played part in delaying projects before, it definitely did in near past more. Dev & assemble teams now look for local supplier which can definitely push timelines further. But its a positive imo, we are building good eco system.
Click to expand...
India's indigenization effort measured in percentage of components can be quite misleading. It should be focused on criticality of the component instead. When govt says every nut & bolt should be procured from within , it is great for local industry but when they dont apply the same for other critical components like chips or electro-optics then indigenization is just another slogan to fool ppl.
 
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Homegrown cruise missile system hit by technical snag​

Fresh test of ITCM ‘failed’ on Friday after its engine developed problems
BHUBANESWAR: A fresh test of India’s indigenous technology cruise missile (ITCM) system ‘failed’ on Friday after its engine reportedly developed snags. The system, a technology demonstrator, was tested with indigenously developed small turbo fan engine (STFE) ‘Manik’ and an upgraded radio frequency seeker from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) off Odisha coast.

Defence sources said the engine developed technical glitches after the initial booster phase, and the missile system plunged into the sea within 30 seconds of the launch. The mission had assumed significance as the missile with indigenous STFE developed by Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) would pave the way for development of a long-range land attack cruise missile that the country has been expecting since long.

“The engine was supposed to start after the initial take-off from the specially designed mobile launcher. But it did not start, possibly owing to a snag. The system then fell down,” said a defence scientist associated with the mission.Since the engine did not start it would be difficult to say how it developed snags and whether any external factor was responsible for it. Issues, if any, with the design of the system will also be looked into, he added.

This was the second failure of the system in the last two years. Of the three tests of the ITCM conducted since 2020, two have failed and one achieved ‘partial success’. During the first trial on October 12, 2020, the system deviated from the pre-coordinated flight path prompting the mission team to kill the missile mid-air to prevent damages to human habitation as the same engine had failed to function. The second trial on August 11 last year though was ‘partially’ successful as the engine performed as expected but the missile system could not travel the desired range reportedly due to some issues with the control mechanism.

Developed by Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) lab of DRDO, the ITCM technology demonstrator uses the sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay platform for validating the STFE of 450 KGF thrust class. The country’s first cruise missile Nirbhay was equipped with Russian origin NPO Saturn 36MT turbofan.

DRDO Chairman Samir V Kamat did not respond to calls and messages from TNIE. ADE Director Y Dilip refused to comment. Both were present at the test range during the vital mission, sources said.
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www.newindianexpress.com

Homegrown cruise missile system hit by technical snag

BHUBANESWAR: A fresh test of India’s indigenous technology cruise missile (ITCM) system ‘failed’ on Friday after its engine reportedly developed snags. The syst
www.newindianexpress.com www.newindianexpress.com
 
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marich01 said:

Homegrown cruise missile system hit by technical snag​



www.newindianexpress.com

Homegrown cruise missile system hit by technical snag

BHUBANESWAR: A fresh test of India’s indigenous technology cruise missile (ITCM) system ‘failed’ on Friday after its engine reportedly developed snags. The syst
www.newindianexpress.com www.newindianexpress.com
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Batman Facepalm GIF by WE tv
 
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Damn this subsonic cruise missile is proving a more tougher hurdle than previously anticipated🤦‍♂️

Lets hope we succeed earlier than later because such missiles like Nirbhay(in Tomahawk class) are required in huge numbers to overwhelm the enemy in a cost-effective way.
 
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Yeah main engine not starting altogether seems the problem suggested, after booster burned thru & it dropped in sea. Do they have recovery boats &/or divers to fetch it?

Would it be possible for ADA handholding with some pvt co or the project is probably too sensitive?
 
Hydra said:
That was just a fluke. Nirbhay is a failure from day 1 onwards, never saw a complete success. Only thing is that we were reluctant to accept it and even started believing that its been inducted secretly in to service.
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Failures are the pillars of success. Don't worry we will crack this thing too😉
 
these people are wasting time, someone should have been fired by now, including project team head
do not expect any accountability or anything from these people. GTRE is the most useless organization , biggest failure since it's inception. Engine development should have been made a national level priority on par with nuclear weapons development , head should have been rolled.... expect more such p@jeet level vishwaguru ch@tiy@gri going forward
 
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