British/Italian Tempest (GCAP) Fighter : News and Discussion

[randomradio]

I don't understand.
You are speaking of a new order of Rafale or MSA/LSA/XYZ ?

The MSA can attack the MCA (201 jets) and the navy's future carrier aircraft program (100-150 jets).

There is no chance of it affecting the IAF's tender for 110 or the IN's tender for 57. In neither case will the forces allow a prototype to ruin their modernisation programs. As mentioned above, there is plenty of requirement for the MSA. But the IN tender of 57 can be stopped if Vstol delivers a jet that doesn't require significant modification of the carriers.

Not to mention its export potential. @vstol Jockey?

 

[Bon Plan]

HAL.

That means it is already late before the first machining....

 

[Bon Plan]

The MSA can attack the MCA (201 jets) and the navy's future carrier aircraft program (100-150 jets).

There is no chance of it affecting the IAF's tender for 110 or the IN's tender for 57. In neither case will the forces allow a prototype to ruin their modernisation programs. As mentioned above, there is plenty of requirement for the MSA. But the IN tender of 57 can be stopped if Vstol delivers a jet that doesn't require significant modification of the carriers.

Not to mention its export potential. @vstol Jockey?

we are peaking of paper plane.
See F35.... even if LM losed some skill, it take more than 10 years to developp and produce a FOC fighter. And maybe more.
What about a totally new entrant in this very high level market ?
What about the legendary indian bureaucracy interference?

 

[BadBoi]

I am going to *censored* u all very soon. I have appointed one of the best test pilots of Indian navy in my company already. Just two days back. And watch it son, Rafale further orders if not signed by end of 2018, will be a pipe dream.

Cant believe people still trust this guy !!

Countries like America & Russia who have high levels of expertise in developing fighter air crafts take decades to build a plane and he is going to do it all alone.. Age of mythology is over man.


Anyways, tempest looks like a good plane. Wish India went for a 5th generation MCA rather than a 4.5 gen Tejas MK 2. What a waste

 

[vstol Jockey]

The MSA can attack the MCA (201 jets) and the navy's future carrier aircraft program (100-150 jets).

There is no chance of it affecting the IAF's tender for 110 or the IN's tender for 57. In neither case will the forces allow a prototype to ruin their modernisation programs. As mentioned above, there is plenty of requirement for the MSA. But the IN tender of 57 can be stopped if Vstol delivers a jet that doesn't require significant modification of the carriers.

Not to mention its export potential. @vstol Jockey?

MSA will not compete with the MMRCA 2.0 version but will surely be a contender for IN requirements. As of now the plans for MRCBF are on hold as the third carrier is still not on the horizon. the present lot of 46 Mig-29K is sufficient for two carriers.
We are making the MSA-N first in trainer configuration. IN & IAF versions will sahre everything in the fuselage. Only difference will be the landing gear and folding wings. The fuselage will be same for both and the flying hours of the airframe of both aircraft will also be same but the counting of airframe hrs for each deck landing will be a multiplication of the IAF variant. Like every deck landing will be counted as 1.5 landings.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Cant believe people still trust this guy !!

Countries like America & Russia who have high levels of expertise in developing fighter air crafts take decades to build a plane and he is going to do it all alone.. Age of mythology is over man.


Anyways, tempest looks like a good plane. Wish India went for a 5th generation MCA rather than a 4.5 gen Tejas MK 2. What a waste

Please keep it coming. It acts as tonic for me.

 

[BadBoi]

Please keep it coming. It acts as tonic for me.

I'll copy paste your last 2-3 posts in 2019 defexpo..

 

[vstol Jockey]

I'll copy paste your last 2-3 posts in 2019 defexpo..

Please do. I am one man struggling to get things going and not an organisation. No one has done any thing of this nature and so complex in India or even in the world. There will be slippages and wrong paths taken requiring retraction, extraction, rerouting and making roads where none exist.
First step towards victory is good knowledge of the task at hand and the difficulties associated with it.

 

[Bon Plan]

Anyways, tempest looks like a good plane.

? It's mainly uggly. Nothing new under the sun. A last minute mock up to occup the scene and don't leave franco german initiative alone. Nothing more.

And a "look" never made a weapon better.

 

[BadBoi]

Please do. I am one man struggling to get things going and not an organisation. No one has done any thing of this nature and so complex in India or even in the world. There will be slippages and wrong paths taken requiring retraction, extraction, rerouting and making roads where none exist.
First step towards victory is good knowledge of the task at hand and the difficulties associated with it.

All the best I will still quote your posts. 1 year will fly by just like that.

 

[BadBoi]

? It's mainly uggly. Nothing new under the sun. A last minute mock up to occup the scene and don't leave franco german initiative alone. Nothing more.

And a "look" never made a weapon better.

By 'looks' I meant the stealth design. No horizontal tails, flat exhaust, the wing shape.. it seems to be good for both stealth as well as speed unlike our Tejas MK 2

 

[Bon Plan]

By 'looks' I meant the stealth design. No horizontal tails, flat exhaust, the wing shape.. it seems to be good for both stealth as well as speed unlike our Tejas MK 2

These are normal attributes to new steath design. Nothing new, nothing special, nothing refined. It's a last minute study.

Wing shape? bouuhhh.... the EF wing shape may seems nice, but it is less effective than those of Rafale. Between the two just a "small" detail : close coupled canards versus long coupled canards. So just a look is all but relevant in a so complexe matter.

For the fun :
Iranian engineers developp a nice look design also ....

 

[randomradio]

we are peaking of paper plane.
See F35.... even if LM losed some skill, it take more than 10 years to developp and produce a FOC fighter. And maybe more.
What about a totally new entrant in this very high level market ?
What about the legendary indian bureaucracy interference?

I don't think Vstol has to fight the Indian bureaucracy while he is developing the aircraft. And once it's developed, and the forces like it, the govt would pick it over importing jets.

 

[randomradio]

MSA will not compete with the MMRCA 2.0 version but will surely be a contender for IN requirements. As of now the plans for MRCBF are on hold as the third carrier is still not on the horizon.

If the MRCBF is on hold (@Picdelamirand-oil), then Dassault will find it very difficult to start MII with just a potential 36 jets. We can only have assembly then.

the present lot of 46 Mig-29K is sufficient for two carriers.

I think it's 44 out of 45. One crashed in Russia.

That number is enough if they expect only one carrier to be operational at any one time.

 

[randomradio]

For the fun :
Iranian engineers developp a nice look design also ....
View attachment 2873

When I first saw the mockup of Tempest, Qaher is the first thing that came to mind.

But to be fair, the British are far more experienced than the Iranians.

 

[vstol Jockey]

If the MRCBF is on hold (@Picdelamirand-oil), then Dassault will find it very difficult to start MII with just a potential 36 jets. We can only have assembly then.



I think it's 44 out of 45. One crashed in Russia.

That number is enough if they expect only one carrier to be operational at any one time.

The contract was for 46 if I remember correctly. The one which crashed in Russia will be replaced by Russians at their cost as the aircraft was not yet delivered to IN.

 

[Ashutosh]

Please do. I am one man struggling to get things going and not an organisation. No one has done any thing of this nature and so complex in India or even in the world. There will be slippages and wrong paths taken requiring retraction, extraction, rerouting and making roads where none exist.
First step towards victory is good knowledge of the task at hand and the difficulties associated with it.

I am at a loss for words, You are going in it alone, no partner or companies? This will take billions of dollars worth of investment in just Infra structure and almost similar in R&D, not to mention the Human resource for carrying out such a huge task, India doesn't have a pool of such specific skilled individuals. Also some non civilian technologies that will not be available easily.

 

[vstol Jockey]

I am at a loss for words, You are going in it alone, no partner or companies? This will take billions of dollars worth of investment in just Infra structure and almost similar in R&D, not to mention the Human resource for carrying out such a huge task, India doesn't have a pool of such specific skilled individuals. Also some non civilian technologies that will not be available easily.

There is a way out. Do not just look at the enormity of the problem. Find a way around it. Kfir Jet costs less than USD35m with all the avionics fitted in it. Can't I have smae stuff fitted in my aircraft minus the avionics?

 

[randomradio]

The contract was for 46 if I remember correctly. The one which crashed in Russia will be replaced by Russians at their cost as the aircraft was not yet delivered to IN.

45.

The contract came in two phases, 16 and then 29. So 45.

 

[Ashutosh]

There is a way out. Do not just look at the enormity of the problem. Find a way around it. Kfir Jet costs less than USD35m with all the avionics fitted in it. Can't I have smae stuff fitted in my aircraft minus the avionics?

Yes, you can. My point is altogether different, Kfir had 220+ numbers made, first prototypes will be very very expensive because you'll need to find parts suppliers and tools and jigs along with designing them. I don't know if there are any airframe manufacturers in India, Only HAL has vendors (e.g Taneja Aerospace) who can supply parts, to get them to adhere to time lines will be difficult even if you place orders to them. The cost will come down only in mass production. Above all you'll need a Team. Your under taking is immense in scale.