Problem identified and fixed. Keep fingers crossed.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chandrayaan-2-launch-chandrayaan-2-t
o-launch-on-july-22-after-initial-setback-says-isro-2071283?pfrom=home-topstories
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chandrayaan-2-launch-chandrayaan-2-t
o-launch-on-july-22-after-initial-setback-says-isro-2071283?pfrom=home-topstories
Please dont tune in for the launch & hex this one too. Please, please for God's sake. For the sake of our country.
What seems like a massive technological challenge today will look like child's play tomorrow. I like to read about these things for a better appreciation of how far we have come. Of course there is also amusement in such reading, for example right now I am reading about how we failed to make hand grenades in the early 90s.
I'll post about it soon.
Isro resolves Chandrayaan-2 glitch, mission may take off before July-end – Indian Defence Research Wing
ISRO resolving the glitch within two days ... it looks like there is something more happening behind the scene than meets the eye
Could it be possible that either China or the US may have maneuvered some space asset to engage Chandrayaan II launch? And ISRO identified the danger and paused the launch; then the NSA may have engaged and warned the trouble maker to clear its path?
ISRO resolving the glitch within two days ... it looks like there is something more happening behind the scene than meets the eye
Could it be possible that either China or the US may have maneuvered some space asset to engage Chandrayaan II launch? And ISRO identified the danger and paused the launch; then the NSA may have engaged and warned the trouble maker to clear its path?
Lol. You guys and your conspiracy theories. Why would the Americans or China need to maneuver satellites to monitor an Indian space launch when they can do it from ground stations or ships just as easily? They don't even need to maneuver anything to be honest. Most of their launch detection satellites are in HEO or GEO orbit, far high enough to watch entire hemispheres, let alone just India. The American Space-based infrared system series of satellites can track launches, and even something as low-signature as a car ignition, across an entire hemisphere. Tracking one highly publicized and prolific launch from India is nothing difficult.
And it's not as if the Americans and China could move satellites without being noticed anyway. Believe it or not, but amateur astronomers have a relatively easy time tracking orbital bodies, even when a classified military launch sees multiple payloads deposited into different orbits.
The American X-37B has had a number of photos taken of it.
NROL-47, a clandestine recon satellite belonging to the US' National Reconnaissance Office was located and tracked nearly immediately after insertion into orbit.
So it's hardly as if moving objects in space aren't noticed and wouldn't be reported. Someone's always watching.
Let's apply Occam's Razor here - Chandrayaan 2 and its carrier rocket experienced some sort of technical malfunction, being reported as a helium leak, and the launch was scrubbed until another clear launch window opens later this month.
Delayed launches happen all the time in space exploration. Better late to launch then...
Lol. You guys and your conspiracy theories. Why would the Americans or China need to maneuver satellites to monitor an Indian space launch when they can do it from ground stations or ships just as easily? They don't even need to maneuver anything to be honest. Most of their launch detection satellites are in HEO or GEO orbit, far high enough to watch entire hemispheres, let alone just India. The American Space-based infrared system series of satellites can track launches, and even something as low-signature as a car ignition, across an entire hemisphere. Tracking one highly publicized and prolific launch from India is nothing difficult.
And it's not as if the Americans and China could move satellites without being noticed anyway. Believe it or not, but amateur astronomers have a relatively easy time tracking orbital bodies, even when a classified military launch sees multiple payloads deposited into different orbits.
The American X-37B has had a number of photos taken of it.
NROL-47, a clandestine recon satellite belonging to the US' National Reconnaissance Office was located and tracked nearly immediately after insertion into orbit.
View attachment 8237
View attachment 8238
So it's hardly as if moving objects in space aren't noticed and wouldn't be reported. Someone's always watching.
Let's apply Occam's Razor here - Chandrayaan 2 and its carrier rocket experienced some sort of technical malfunction, being reported as a helium leak, and the launch was scrubbed until another clear launch window opens later this month.
Delayed launches happen all the time in space exploration. Better late to launch then...
Let's not mask a skeptic thought with these distracting HD pictures. There is a fine difference between a sabotage and making it look like an accident.
I recollect the history of GSLV failures (four out of six) in the previous decade. One of them was attributed to a data cable that was imported from Germany which was connecting the 2nd and 3rd stage.
From the time ISRO took control of making critical components and sub-assemblies in-house, its success rate has soared.
In the history of race to control almost everything of strategic, commercial or economic significance, there are numerous sabotages that have happened which at the time are spoken as conspiracy theories, but later exposed as true sabotage event.
Why do you think the kill switches are installed to remotely incapacitate critical equipment of strategic importance? Heard of disabling the F-14 Tomcats after the Iran revolution in 1979?
The weakest link is an opportune threat for sabotage by your adversary. History is filled with such events in almost every aspect of human life.
There is an Area 51 equivalent base on the moon. With the plan of US Civies to storm Area 51 in Nevada the US Space Command and NASA are shit scared and are shifing all those aliens and their tech to the moon bases's holding area. ISRO preempted them and hence sending a rover and a cam to take live video of the same. China is also involved, US used lasers to attack the GSLV and China used their Feng Shui tactics to cause the leak in the fuel line. We got the whiff and now the Rocket is repaired. This time we are hiding two Brahmos AF version in the payload fairing, jsut to send a message. they wil be orbit around the moon, to provide security to our equipment on the surface.
@Fafnir : Du savnet poenget. Se dette, det er den riktige forklaringen. Hva er livet uten noen konspirasjon.
Wow!!
Great to see that someone at SF has representation and privy to such Star Wars information
Oh come on admit it, half the fun of visiting foreign forums is listening to their conspiracy theories.
For example I regularly visit some American forums and I am proud to say I am picking up on some of their conspiracy theories too. Things like these : "The Earth is flat", "NASA is a hoax" "The Moon landing was faked" "NASA has found aliens and won't tell us about it" and my personal favorite "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams".
Of course the other half is watching them act like the world revolves around them. Remember the recent ASAT test and the subsequent reaction from NASA ? The guys at NASA Space Forum were at their hilarious best. They were on about how NASA is angry and India is for sure screwed now, this whole circle jerk(excuse my russian) went on for a few days until the US govt. provided "guidance" to NASA about the continuation of partnership with India and NASA merrily agreed. The reaction of the guys in NSF were basically : "shocked-pikachu-image.jpg".
NASA much like ISRO doesn't dictate their respective govt's actions, Geo-politics does. So NASA or ISRO being angry won't mean a thing to anybody. I couldn't believe that there were adults, like 50-60 year olds that don't get this.
I think that's partly true. Not completely. I am specifically talking about America, the Chinese are not anywhere near those levels yet.
The American SBIRS system you refer to has 2 components : SBIRS High(4 satellites in HEO and GEO orbits) and SBIRS Low(24 satellites in LEO).
The ones in LEO can pick up low IR signature as its needed to track missiles/rockets before and after ignition.
The ones in high orbit(HEO and GEO) track missiles/rockets after they are launched and have reached a significant height. The height gain is important as with height the rocket/missile in flight gets closer to the GEO/HEO orbits(relatively speaking) and also the density of air starts to reduce. The lowered density significantly reduces atmospheric attenuation of IR and VNIR sensors, thus allowing the GEO/HEO sats to track their target with ease.
If those same GEO/HEO sats were used to track targets on the ground their sensors would get jumbled up with radiation from earth's surface. Not to mention the atmospheric attenuation which is at its highest on the surface of earth(due to the highest density of air). This predicament is worsened if the surface of the ground is a heat sink(like say sand), not only do you have to deal with the radiation from the top level of the surface, you'd also have to deal with background radiation. As sand is a shifty surface the incident energy from the Sun heats up not just the top layer but also a few layers below it, those layers below can't radiate openly unlike the top layer, so what they do instead is radiate from below. This will within a short amount of time light up the entire ground with IR radiation, the overdose of IR signals jumble up sensors. Now it there are sand storms blowing in that area or have high degrees of air pollution, you will have additional troubles, now you have radiating elements just floating about.
The SBIRS low sats have a cooling system for their IR sensors, as we all know IR sensors lose sensitivity and thus resolution when heated. What kind of cooling system does it use ? Can't be air cooling, not enough air in LEO heights, can't be liquid cooling as it doesn't work without a heat sink(like the atmosphere), the only option left is cryogenic cooling. Since every sat carries a limited amount of space, the cryo tank onboard must be also small and thus demanding very careful use of it. Using it to detect stuff like car ignition is a criminal waste of resources.
Remember the 1998 nuclear tests, ever wonder why we did it in a desert ? Hoodwinking American spy satellites, as we did back then, requires a great deal of understanding of how these sensors work. Everything has a weakness, you just need to find it. A lot of people in the west seem to believe that the SBIRS is unbeatable and it allows the US to gather information of unattainable levels. This is simply not true, the SBIRS can be spoofed if needed be.
Now there is no doubt that the US has advanced by leaps and bounds in space tech. But the rest of the world including us haven't exactly been sleeping.
The SBIRS despite the bravado is still a dated system, and the world is catching up faster than ever. Case in point ISRO's HySIS can identify a human being in a desert environment in peak summer noon. Given the heat generated by a human body is much less than that of a car engine, I'd say they have nearly caught up. Granted the HySIS is an experimental small satellite and unlike the Americans we have no 24 satellite constellation.
All this along with the fact that USAF themselves seem to want to move away from the SBIRS to a survivable small sat constellation should mean SBIRS may not last long. So, maybe its time to stop the SBIRS circle-jerk.
The end of SBIRS: Air Force says it’s time to move on - SpaceNews.com
I am sorry for the long rant, but I've just about had enough of people claiming the SBIRS's invincibility.
That thing is probably testing electronic/sensors and stuff for future sats. Or maybe the Americans are preparing grounds for long duration human deployment in LEO, which in turn leads up to military personnel deployment.
Remember Trump's Space Force.
X-37B Military Space Plane's Latest Mystery Mission Passes 600 Days
The US Military's Secretive X-37B Space Plane: 6 Surprising Facts
What’s the X-37 Doing Up There? | Space | Air & Space Magazine
Similar in function to the RISAT family.
Very true. Kinda spooky, that last sentence is almost movie worthy.
OT here, still.. the self righteousness of NSF guys were to be seen to believe it... Such preaching from their high horses till tht guidance
After the "guidance" they were shell shocked. Soon enough they went into self-consolation mode saying that even if NASA and US govt. do nothing due to politics, commercial space/sattelite companies will soon boycott India. American companies will lead the way as they are the most environmentally responsible(sure yeah okay
), then a US based satellite company "Planet" announced they would use the PSLV again to launch some more satellites. Soon after that more companies from US, UK and many other parts of the world did the same.Some Indian dude on NSF said :"So the boycott is going well then"
His comment was deleted and the thread was locked because of excessive Indian jingoism.
Bless the Americans, so much entertainment in a week. We will probably test again soon in a much higher altitude with a electronically simulated target, and I will run straight to NSF again. For "research" purposes, of course.
The glitches while launch happen a lot of times some are overlooked depending on it's seriousness and some are taken with serious considerations.
Lol. You guys and your conspiracy theories. Why would the Americans or China need to maneuver satellites to monitor an Indian space launch when they can do it from ground stations or ships just as easily? They don't even need to maneuver anything to be honest. Most of their launch detection satellites are in HEO or GEO orbit, far high enough to watch entire hemispheres, let alone just India. The American Space-based infrared system series of satellites can track launches, and even something as low-signature as a car ignition, across an entire hemisphere. Tracking one highly publicized and prolific launch from India is nothing difficult.
And it's not as if the Americans and China could move satellites without being noticed anyway. Believe it or not, but amateur astronomers have a relatively easy time tracking orbital bodies, even when a classified military launch sees multiple payloads deposited into different orbits.
The American X-37B has had a number of photos taken of it.
NROL-47, a clandestine recon satellite belonging to the US' National Reconnaissance Office was located and tracked nearly immediately after insertion into orbit.
View attachment 8237
View attachment 8238
So it's hardly as if moving objects in space aren't noticed and wouldn't be reported. Someone's always watching.
Let's apply Occam's Razor here - Chandrayaan 2 and its carrier rocket experienced some sort of technical malfunction, being reported as a helium leak, and the launch was scrubbed until another clear launch window opens later this month.
Delayed launches happen all the time in space exploration. Better late to launch then...
I don't think sabotage angle can be ruled out..
For a fact, Indian bhramos missile failed during initial tests because GPS was switched off or something.. In the flight.
After that we made G3P something that uses 3 positioning system s...
If it gets deviated from path after launch which is most likely to happen 80% chance and 20% success then again things will be blamed on sabotage rather than introspecting.
Chandrayaan-2 landing likely on September 6-7; launch on July 22
Chethan Kumar | TNN | Updated: Jul 18, 2019, 23:26 IST
BENGALURU : Notwithstanding the last-minute scrubbing of Chandrayaan-2 launch on July 15, Isro may still be able to soft-land Vikram (lander) on the same day as it had initially planned —September 6-7.
“There may be a slight change in strategy, but it won’t affect the actual day of landing,” a senior scientist associated with the mission told TOI on Thursday.
Four days after the cancellation of the first scheduled launch, Isro said: “Chandrayaan-2 launch is rescheduled on July 22 at 2:43pm.”
TOI first reported on July 15 that then new launch date could be on July 22. An expert committee constituted to analyse the issue—the July 15 launch was cancelled after a leak in the cryogenic stage of the launch vehicle was detected—has suggested remedial action, which has been implemented.
Sources said that the new launch date was finalised late Wednesday. “The committee identified the root cause of the snag and corrective actions are implemented,” Isro said.
‘Buffer Time Around Moon’
The agency will be able to achieve the landing on September 6-7 as its initial plan included a “buffer” time around Moon for two reasons: First, to give itself a second chance in case of hiccups that pushed the launch from July 15.
“This was key to keep time for a relaunch and still carry out the mission without too many changes in the profile and software,” a source said.
And second, because July 15 was the longest launch window (10 minutes), which Isro felt was the best day for launch, which gave the agency additional days around Moon before the lander separation procedure.
If it was launched on July 15, the spacecraft would have reached Moon in 22 days, after which it would go around Moon for 28 days before Vikram’s separation from the orbiter and then Vikram would go around Moon for four days before finally soft-landing.
“Now, nothing in the initial approach is changing. We’ll still take 22 days to insert Chandrayaan-2 into the lunar orbit because we need 17 days around Earth for five orbit raising manoeuvres, and then five days for the lunarcraft to travel close to Moon,” a senior scientist explained.
Also, the number of days Vikram needs to go around Moon in a 30kmX100km orbit before initiating deboosting procedures for landing will also be the same as planned initially—four days.
The only thing that will change is the number of days the spacecraft goes around Moon before lander separation. According to initial plans, the spacecraft was to go around in a 100kmX100km orbit for 28 days before separation, and now it will go around for 21 days.
“Technically, the separation could have happened even after just one day of lunar insertion. The reason the orbiter had 28 days as per the first plan was because the July 15 window meant we reached there much earlier than the most suited day for landing (September 6-7), which gives us 14 full days (1 lunar day) on Moon,” the scientist explained.
“Now, we will reach Moon about seven days later than the initial plan, but still in 22 days from launch. And yet, we have enough time left for landing on the same date,” the scientist added.
So, the total number of days of the mission will be reduced from 54 days to 47 days. A shorter launch window on July 22—Isro chairman K Sivan had on June 12 said that all days of July after the 15th will only have one minute—another senior scientist said, won’t be a “problem”.
“You don’t need to worry about the length of the launch window. Look at the last 20 missions and you’ll know that we’ve launched on the dot. So the length of the window shouldn’t be a concern even now,” a scientist said.
Chandrayaan-2 landing likely on September 6-7; launch on July 22 | India News - Times of India
Chethan Kumar | TNN | Updated: Jul 18, 2019, 23:26 IST
BENGALURU : Notwithstanding the last-minute scrubbing of Chandrayaan-2 launch on July 15, Isro may still be able to soft-land Vikram (lander) on the same day as it had initially planned —September 6-7.
“There may be a slight change in strategy, but it won’t affect the actual day of landing,” a senior scientist associated with the mission told TOI on Thursday.
Four days after the cancellation of the first scheduled launch, Isro said: “Chandrayaan-2 launch is rescheduled on July 22 at 2:43pm.”
TOI first reported on July 15 that then new launch date could be on July 22. An expert committee constituted to analyse the issue—the July 15 launch was cancelled after a leak in the cryogenic stage of the launch vehicle was detected—has suggested remedial action, which has been implemented.
Sources said that the new launch date was finalised late Wednesday. “The committee identified the root cause of the snag and corrective actions are implemented,” Isro said.
‘Buffer Time Around Moon’
The agency will be able to achieve the landing on September 6-7 as its initial plan included a “buffer” time around Moon for two reasons: First, to give itself a second chance in case of hiccups that pushed the launch from July 15.
“This was key to keep time for a relaunch and still carry out the mission without too many changes in the profile and software,” a source said.
And second, because July 15 was the longest launch window (10 minutes), which Isro felt was the best day for launch, which gave the agency additional days around Moon before the lander separation procedure.
If it was launched on July 15, the spacecraft would have reached Moon in 22 days, after which it would go around Moon for 28 days before Vikram’s separation from the orbiter and then Vikram would go around Moon for four days before finally soft-landing.
“Now, nothing in the initial approach is changing. We’ll still take 22 days to insert Chandrayaan-2 into the lunar orbit because we need 17 days around Earth for five orbit raising manoeuvres, and then five days for the lunarcraft to travel close to Moon,” a senior scientist explained.
Also, the number of days Vikram needs to go around Moon in a 30kmX100km orbit before initiating deboosting procedures for landing will also be the same as planned initially—four days.
The only thing that will change is the number of days the spacecraft goes around Moon before lander separation. According to initial plans, the spacecraft was to go around in a 100kmX100km orbit for 28 days before separation, and now it will go around for 21 days.
“Technically, the separation could have happened even after just one day of lunar insertion. The reason the orbiter had 28 days as per the first plan was because the July 15 window meant we reached there much earlier than the most suited day for landing (September 6-7), which gives us 14 full days (1 lunar day) on Moon,” the scientist explained.
“Now, we will reach Moon about seven days later than the initial plan, but still in 22 days from launch. And yet, we have enough time left for landing on the same date,” the scientist added.
So, the total number of days of the mission will be reduced from 54 days to 47 days. A shorter launch window on July 22—Isro chairman K Sivan had on June 12 said that all days of July after the 15th will only have one minute—another senior scientist said, won’t be a “problem”.
“You don’t need to worry about the length of the launch window. Look at the last 20 missions and you’ll know that we’ve launched on the dot. So the length of the window shouldn’t be a concern even now,” a scientist said.
Chandrayaan-2 landing likely on September 6-7; launch on July 22 | India News - Times of India
