So 2030+ for Rafale? That would mean ground radars may already be capable of that right around now.
Dassault Rafale - Updates and Discussion
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So 2030+ for Rafale? That would mean ground radars may already be capable of that right around now.
From VLO we're moving towards ELO(NGAD), so while multistatic/bi-static radars would make life difficult for stealth planes, they are never going out of vogue as long as primary detection is happening through RF waves, period.
That is pretty old though. It's called forward scatter. Multistatic is a different cup of tea, it requires digital antennas at the bare minimum.
Other frequency bands will become important, like terahertz.
Photonics will come into the picture by then, followed by quantum radar.
Does F4.2 get multistatic capability?You'll see it soon enough.
Initially the F4.2 was scheduled for 2025, it was accelerated to 2024 to meet the constraints of the Finnish tender, but since they chose the F-35 we're back to 2025.
But it's true that when we announced this standard in 2019, we thought that 5 years later GaN technology would be widespread in the civilian sector and that this would make it affordable for the military, this is not the case, so we have changed our plans:
- With the development of multistatic capability, also planned for this timeframe, it will make passive stealth, such as that used on the F-35, obsolete.
I found this article,,
"We can however regret that multistatic detection capabilities have not been integrated on F4, a priori for reasons of costs and delays, even though all the technological components allowing it (AESA antennas, intra-patrol data links, computing power) will be available."
Rafale__라팔 업그레이드 로드맵 추가 정보 분석
No, this has been postponed to F5, perhaps to F4.3 which is not yet completly define.
So-called passive radars are in fact multistatic radars that use opportunity emitters .
France Budgets €11.7 Billion For Dassault Rafale Investments
PARIS—France is to invest €6.41 billion ($6.75 billion) into the Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft program between 2023 and 2026 and has earmarked an additional €5.36 billion after 2026.In total, the spending commitment budgeted for the fighter jet program amounts to €11.7 billion.
France continues to invest in its combat aircraft capabilities, particularly the Dassault Rafale, as the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) will not be operational until 2040-45.
The appendix to the country’s defense budget bill for 2024 shows the French Ministry of Armed Forces will spend €1.66 billion on the Rafale in 2023, €2.29 billion in 2024, €1.69 billion in 2025 and €764.8 million in 2026.
The French government already has planned to spend €1.38 billion on the Rafale’s F4 standard between 2024 and 2026, with a focus on bolstering the platform’s connectivity.
The F4 upgrade includes enhanced weapons capability, improved sensors, elevated cyber resiliency and better availability, the Thales Scorpion head-mounted display and the 1,000-kg (2,200-lb.) Armement Air-Sol Modulaire (AASM) precision-guided bomb, among other equipment.
The report also notes qualification of the F4.2 standard has been postponed to 2025 from 2024. The qualification of the F4.1 standard was announced in March 2023, instead of 2022.
The F5 standard will require €211.9 million over the period. The budget will be used to continue risk-mitigation studies, as well as work on the Thales RBE2 XG radar. The F5 upgrade is aimed at maintaining proficiency for air combat operations and integrating a higher level of connectivity, while waiting for the Next Generation Weapon System, within the FCAS program. The Rafale F5 upgrade is seen as a precursor to the Next Generation Fighter that is part of the FCAS.
Funding additionally will be allocated for the preparation of a future uncrewed combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) to support the Rafale F5 at €128.09 million between 2024 and 2026.
An amendment to the French Military Programming Law specifies the Rafale F5 could include “the development of a drone to support the Rafale, based on the Neuron [UCAV] demonstrator.”
The French government launched the Neuron program in 2003 with Dassault Aviation as prime contractor in collaboration with Airbus Spain (formerly EADS-CASA), Hellenic Aerospace Industries, Leonardo (formerly Alenia Aermacchi), RUAG and Saab.
By the end of 2023, France is expected to order 42 Rafales; negotiations are still ongoing with Dassault Aviation for this fifth batch. Deliveries initially were planned to start in 2029 but discussions are underway to deliver them starting in 2027.
Thirteen aircraft have been delivered in 2023, with 13 more to arrive in 2024, 12 in 2025 and one in 2026. The French Military Programming Law sets a fleet target of 178 Rafales—137 for the Air Force and 41 for the Navy—by 2030 and 225 by 2035.
If deliveries of the fifth batch start in 2027, this means that we will have more aircraft in 2030, perhaps the 180 initially planned, and in my opinion this also means that there is a high probability that we will have another assembly line by then, in India or Saudi Arabia?
L'Arabie saoudite prête à commander 54 Rafale à Dassault Aviation
Saudi Arabia ready to order 54 Rafales from Dassault Aviation
Saudi Arabia is considering the acquisition of 54 Rafale jets. Dassault Aviation is to submit a costed proposal by 10 November.
A thunderclap in the skies over the Middle East. The Rafale, the flagship of the French military aeronautics industry, is of interest to Saudi Arabia, which has traditionally purchased its aircraft from the United States (Boeing's F-15) and Great Britain (Tornado and Eurofighter, two combat aircraft designed as part of a European cooperation with Germany, Italy and Spain). According to corroborating sources, Riyadh has officially asked Dassault Aviation to send it a costed proposal for the acquisition of 54 Rafales. The aircraft manufacturer has until November 10 to respond, according to La Tribune Dimanche.
A success for Dassault Aviation in Saudi Arabia would be resounding for the Rafale: the French fighter would pull off a colossal coup under the nose of its European rival, the Typhoon from the Eurofighter consortium (made up of the UK's BAE Systems, Airbus and Italy's Leonardo), considered to be the second choice of the Royal Saudi Air Force, after the American F-15. Since 1985, it was the British who imposed the Tornado (Al-Yamamah 1 and 2 contracts) and then the Typhoon (Al-Salam contract in 2007) on Saudi Arabia, despite several unsuccessful French attempts to seduce Riyadh. This order for Dassault Aviation, if it were to materialise, would complete Rafale sales in the Middle East region: Egypt in 2015 and 2021 (54 aircraft), Qatar in 2015 and 2017 (36), then the United Arab Emirates (80 ordered in December 2021).
The role of the hare?
Does this thunderclap really represent a paradigm shift in the kingdom's fighter aircraft procurement policy? Because, over and above France's long-held dream of equipping the Royal Saudi Air Force for more than sixty years, this is the question that Paris and Dassault Aviation in particular are asking: the fear is that the Rafale will simply play the role of the hare to the benefit of the Typhoon, or even the F-15. Why is this? For around ten years, a second Typhoon order from Riyadh (48 aircraft) has been expected by London, which obtained Saudi approval in 2018. But Germany has regularly blocked this sale, due to the war in Yemen (2015) and then the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi (2018). This provoked anger in London, very strong irritation in Riyadh and tensions between the three countries.
Over time, this annoyance has led to a (feigned or real?) interest on the part of the Saudis in the Rafale, which nevertheless flies under their very eyes in the skies over Qatar. Will the Americans let Dassault Aviation enter this market? Not for sure. They are proposing the F-15SA and could put pressure on the Crown Prince, Mohammed Ben Salmane, who is increasingly looking east. Finally, irritated by the Saudi glances in favour of the Rafale, the Germans would be prepared to soften their position on the Typhoon if Riyadh intervened on behalf of the German hostages held by Hamas in Gaza. Especially as Berlin has welcomed the reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Iran, which has already had repercussions for the conflict in Yemen. France will play its part, but the context calls for caution...
Egypt has acquired 54 Rafales (in 2015 and again in 2021), making it the largest fleet in the Middle East. Qatar bought 36 aircraft in 2015 and 2017, and the United Arab Emirates has ordered 80 Rafales in 2021.
Saudi Arabia ready to order 54 Rafales from Dassault Aviation
Saudi Arabia is considering the acquisition of 54 Rafale jets. Dassault Aviation is to submit a costed proposal by 10 November.
A thunderclap in the skies over the Middle East. The Rafale, the flagship of the French military aeronautics industry, is of interest to Saudi Arabia, which has traditionally purchased its aircraft from the United States (Boeing's F-15) and Great Britain (Tornado and Eurofighter, two combat aircraft designed as part of a European cooperation with Germany, Italy and Spain). According to corroborating sources, Riyadh has officially asked Dassault Aviation to send it a costed proposal for the acquisition of 54 Rafales. The aircraft manufacturer has until November 10 to respond, according to La Tribune Dimanche.
A success for Dassault Aviation in Saudi Arabia would be resounding for the Rafale: the French fighter would pull off a colossal coup under the nose of its European rival, the Typhoon from the Eurofighter consortium (made up of the UK's BAE Systems, Airbus and Italy's Leonardo), considered to be the second choice of the Royal Saudi Air Force, after the American F-15. Since 1985, it was the British who imposed the Tornado (Al-Yamamah 1 and 2 contracts) and then the Typhoon (Al-Salam contract in 2007) on Saudi Arabia, despite several unsuccessful French attempts to seduce Riyadh. This order for Dassault Aviation, if it were to materialise, would complete Rafale sales in the Middle East region: Egypt in 2015 and 2021 (54 aircraft), Qatar in 2015 and 2017 (36), then the United Arab Emirates (80 ordered in December 2021).
The role of the hare?
Does this thunderclap really represent a paradigm shift in the kingdom's fighter aircraft procurement policy? Because, over and above France's long-held dream of equipping the Royal Saudi Air Force for more than sixty years, this is the question that Paris and Dassault Aviation in particular are asking: the fear is that the Rafale will simply play the role of the hare to the benefit of the Typhoon, or even the F-15. Why is this? For around ten years, a second Typhoon order from Riyadh (48 aircraft) has been expected by London, which obtained Saudi approval in 2018. But Germany has regularly blocked this sale, due to the war in Yemen (2015) and then the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi (2018). This provoked anger in London, very strong irritation in Riyadh and tensions between the three countries.
Over time, this annoyance has led to a (feigned or real?) interest on the part of the Saudis in the Rafale, which nevertheless flies under their very eyes in the skies over Qatar. Will the Americans let Dassault Aviation enter this market? Not for sure. They are proposing the F-15SA and could put pressure on the Crown Prince, Mohammed Ben Salmane, who is increasingly looking east. Finally, irritated by the Saudi glances in favour of the Rafale, the Germans would be prepared to soften their position on the Typhoon if Riyadh intervened on behalf of the German hostages held by Hamas in Gaza. Especially as Berlin has welcomed the reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Iran, which has already had repercussions for the conflict in Yemen. France will play its part, but the context calls for caution...
Egypt has acquired 54 Rafales (in 2015 and again in 2021), making it the largest fleet in the Middle East. Qatar bought 36 aircraft in 2015 and 2017, and the United Arab Emirates has ordered 80 Rafales in 2021.
I don't think this is a good thing for France to sell Rafales to SA. Economically, this is a good new for Dassault. But politically for France, a not so good one.
It's not gonna happen anyway.
Remember when they were gonna buy Mirage 2000?
www.lemonde.fr
Saudi Arabia is definitely one of those countries where I'll only believe it when it actually happens. Contract signed, first installment paid. As long as this stage is not reached, I'll assume it's just a maneuver to get a better price for the F-15 or to get Germany to stop blocking the Typhoon sale.
Remember when they were gonna buy Mirage 2000?
L'Arabie Saoudite négocie l'achat d'avions Mirage 2000
Le Monde.fr - 1er site d’information sur l’actualité. Retrouvez ici une archive du 21 janvier 1985 sur le sujet L'Arabie Saoudite négocie l'achat d'avions Mirage 2000
www.lemonde.fr
UK and USA 's Interests are not France 's ones.
France's first interest is: no war on Europe's mainland. Sadly, Macron failed in this.
SA is quite far from France geographically and politically. I don't see anything good for France to sell Rafales to them.
This information was confirmed on Monday by the French Minister for the Armed Forces, Sébastien Lecornu.
"Yes, there are discussions, but as is always the case with this type of discussion and commercial relationship between a company in the French defence industrial and technological base and a foreign sovereign state, it is not the Minister's role to comment in the press on what may be discussed here or there," said Sébastien Lecornu at a press conference.
