Dassault Rafale - Updates and Discussion

Dassault Aviation boss: European defence depends on French industry

By Aurélie Pugnet and Théo Bourgery-Gonse | Euractiv.com 30 août 2023


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French,Air,Force,Dassault,Rafale,Fighter,Plane,Taxiing,At,Mont-de-marsan [VanderWolf Images/Shutterstock]


The EU’s defence industry capabilities come down primarily to France’s six-decade nuclear dissuasion strategy that encouraged cutting-edge technological investments, Dassault Aviation CEO, Eric Trappier, said on Tuesday (29 August).

As Russia’s war in Ukraine brought questions of European defence and autonomy back to the fore, the EU is looking to secure greater levels of “strategic autonomy” – a term first coined in 2022 by French President Emmanuel Macron – in its critical sectors.

“[EU] defence industry capabilities lie first and foremost in France,” Trappier said at the French business association MEDEF’s annual meeting on Tuesday.

To the French company, the producer of Rafale fighter jets, achieving a higher degree of independence on defence matters involves acknowledging the technological and industrial superiority of France in the EU when it comes to producing cutting-edge defence material.

“The growth [of the defence industry] must be based on [member states’] technical capabilities, and not exclusively on cooperation opportunities [between like-minded countries],” Trappier, the former President of ASD (the European Aerospace, Security and Defence Industries Association), said.

Strategic autonomy, according to Trappier, was driven by France over the course of the past six decades, ever since the country gained access to nuclear weaponry under then-President Charles De Gaulle.

Nuclear dissuasion has helped “develop a defence and technology industrial base” specific to France, with economic actors across the country having built advanced expertise, he explained.

France’s new defence bill, adopted over the summer, increased the country’s national defence budget to €413 billion for the 2024-2030 period, including €50 billion extra for nuclear deterrence only.

Evidence of greediness​

France has been criticised by other EU member states in Brussels for pushing an EU defence cooperation agenda that would largely benefit its own interests.

Paris often accounts for the highest number of participating companies in European Defence Fund (EDF) projects and pilot programmes, which boost technological research and development and win over the largest projects – a fact that some smaller member states and companies have attributed to evidence of greediness, EURACTIV understands.

In 2021, a total of 178 French companies were selected for the projects. Italy came in close second with 156, followed by Spain and Germany.
In 2022, the French-led company MBDA was granted a €70 million project to work on hypersonic missile defence. This move was seen as a “fancy consolation prize” among the European defence industries, following intense lobbying from Paris, two people told EURACTIV under condition of anonymity.

The previous year, MBDA had not been selected to develop a European hypersonic defence interceptor as it failed to convince the European Commission it was the best fit. The Commission instead sided with the much smaller and less experienced Spanish arms maker SENER.

Buy European?

Ultimately, any level of European independence on defence matters is so closely linked to France’s ability to develop, grow and export its military expertise, and ensure its own independence is preserved, Trappier said.

“Don’t give up what we already have for something far less certain,” the businessman said, in reference to the hypothetical idea of a pan-European defence force. Any future EU cooperation must “preserve” French industrial competencies, Trappier said.
“Peace is ensured through our ability to wage war. To prepare for war, it is not enough to enter into an ‘economy of war’: you must be in [it] in times of peace [as well],” he added.

The first relevant step could be to start buying European, especially when it comes to air defence. Dassault Aviation’s Rafale jets compete on the global stage against US competitor Lockheed Martin’s F-35s – which struck deals with a number of EU member states, such as Germany and Finland.

“Europe has spent €60 billion to buy F-35s, which is a shame,” Trappied said. “Why don’t EU [countries] buy French planes?” he asked.
Paul Maurice, a researcher at the French Institute of International Relations in Paris, told DW in March 2022: “The F-35 is understood here as a symbol of US power within NATO. After all the speeches about European autonomy and sovereignty, one had expected Germany to be more aligned with a European arms policy.”

US-France cooperation​

As for cooperation with US counterparts, nothing’s ruled out, Dassault’s boss said. “Why not?” he teased.

If this means falling under the catch of the US export control regime however, then it’s a no-go, he said, speaking alongside Amy Schedlbauer, Minister Counsellor for Economic Affairs at the US embassy in Paris.

“We need exports to have a viable industrial economic base, and US export controls would hinder those,” Trappier said.

Schedlbauer responded: “If there was further US-French cooperation in the defence sector, there would continue to be tweaked to that export control regime to reflect that partnership.”

Asked whether there was an appetite to create joining military technologies, such as a US-French fighter jet, Trappier slowly shook his head in the negative.

 
It's a good one for UK or USA?

Their presence keeps SA in line. The more independent Saudi gets, the more radical Muslims become because of their intention to spread Wahhabism, which is one of the most extremist Islamic ideologies around. No prizes to guess how it will impact Europe and France.

In India, most Muslims are Sufis following the Hanafi school, which is quite moderate. But the Muslims in Europe are a mix of Maliki and other schools, not so moderate.

And this is just societal reasons. More independence would mean they will be at greater liberty to control the oil market against consumer interest. Russia and China have already helped embolden them, it's gonna get worse if they get France on their side too.

Anyway, 54 is okay. Going beyond that will change the game.
 
It's not gonna happen anyway.

Remember when they were gonna buy Mirage 2000?
Saudi Arabia is definitely one of those countries where I'll only believe it when it actually happens. Contract signed, first installment paid. As long as this stage is not reached, I'll assume it's just a maneuver to get a better price for the F-15 or to get Germany to stop blocking the Typhoon sale.

The US and UK have successfully kept other countries out, but that's changing under MBS.

A negotiation advantage notwithstanding, the Rafale will still give them unique capabilities, the country is at war after all.
 
“Europe has spent €60 billion to buy F-35s, which is a shame,” Trappied said. “Why don’t EU [countries] buy French planes?” he asked.
Paul Maurice, a researcher at the French Institute of International Relations in Paris, told DW in March 2022: “The F-35 is understood here as a symbol of US power within NATO. After all the speeches about European autonomy and sovereignty, one had expected Germany to be more aligned with a European arms policy.”

Because France is not viable as a net security provider for Europe to the same extent the US is.
 
Almost American
The JDAM wing kits are Australian and the powered JDAM is with Australian Ferra.
 
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Almost American
The JDAM wing kits are Australian and the powered JDAM is with Australian Ferra.

Australia has the potential to develop and market their own products, they should go big.
 
That won't happen. There are numerous examples where we give the tech away. R&D is good, very poor commercial

It will be necessary in the future. There's plenty of army stuff that's already Australian.

It will be a good idea to venture into small shipbuilding like patrol boats and corvettes and advanced munitions like cruise missiles. It's about creating capacities within Australia, stuff like what Taiwan's done. Australia will need robust domestic air defense capabilities in the near future as well.
 
Because France is not viable as a net security provider for Europe to the same extent the US is.
The USA are not viable as a security provider for Europe. EU countries will have to wake up and face that fact eventually; hopefully before Russia (or Turkey!) invades them.
 
The USA are not viable as a security provider for Europe. EU countries will have to wake up and face that fact eventually; hopefully before Russia (or Turkey!) invades them.

This particular case, Trump cannot do anything on his own. It requires bipartisan support. And he's only going to be around for 4 years, not enough time to do this. Plus with Europe slowly militarizing, I think NATO will meet Trump's expectations.

But at the same time, while I don't agree with the fact that the US will completely withdraw, but I do agree that American support will not be even halfway close to the level it was during the Cold War, even percentagewise.

With that said, I'll just repeat what I said years ago, Europe has to militarize, there's no two ways about it. Whatever Russia builds, Europe has to match that 1:1.
 
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Baltics & Poland may not agree with you.
They're the ones most directly concerned by Russian irredentism, as they are on the current Russian borders.

Poland does agree, otherwise they wouldn't be greatly expanding their own military.
Meh, Turkey would never do that and Russia will also not try something like this to a NATO Country.
Turkey covets Greek islands and has recently threatened to have "a war of the Crescent against the Cross", so I would not advise trusting them to stay peaceful.
This particular case, Trump cannot do anything on his own. It requires bipartisan support. And he's only going to be around for 4 years, not enough time to do this.
This goes beyond just Trump. America has always oscillated between imperialism and isolationism. Trump is merely the indicator that the pendulum is swinging back towards isolationism.
 
This goes beyond just Trump. America has always oscillated between imperialism and isolationism. Trump is merely the indicator that the pendulum is swinging back towards isolationism.

They will fail miserably at isolationism.

In any case they have the military presence already. Even if they do wish to leave Europe, it's not gonna happen overnight. Say, 5 years to make a decision, under Trump, 5 years to implement and a 10-year drawdown easy, which can be stopped anytime. In the meantime, even after pivoting to Asia, their naval presence in the Atlantic is still bigger than all of Europe combined.
 
They're the ones most directly concerned by Russian irredentism, as they are on the current Russian borders.

Poland does agree, otherwise they wouldn't be greatly expanding their own military
My point was Poland & Baltics will disagree with your assertion that " US is not a Viable security provider for Europe".