Europe is like herding cats. They all go their own way in the end. It's hard enough to go from 4th to 5th for the US and they already had experience with stealth aircraft. No one can match that budget or expertise. So the idea that Europe is going to build 2 successful next gen on their first try, with poorly committed partners. Is at best a joke.
Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany
- Thread starter randomradio
- Start date
It seems even renaming Tempest didn't work. Someone added the numbers up and came up with a cost.
www.rusi.org
The Global Combat Air Programme is Writing Cheques that Defence Can’t Cash
The development of a next-generation fighter as part of the Global Combat Air Programme risks being held back by unrealistic cost and investment estimates. Either it must be funded properly, radically downscaled in ambition, or not done at all.
www.rusi.org
ONERA leads the SUPERMAN programme to improve the manoeuvrability of the fighter aircraft of the future (may28)
While discussions between France, Germany and Spain dragged on about the launch of phase 1B of the Future Air Combat System [SCAF], the French manufacturers involved in the programme wasted no time.
In January 2022, the French defense procurement agency [DGA] announced a major test to develop the engine for the new generation fighter [NGF, for New Generation Fighter], as part of phase 2 of the Turenne programme, entrusted to Safran.
At the same time, Dassault Aviation, prime contractor for the NGF, and the Office national d'études et de recherches aérospatiales [ONERA] carried out the first wind tunnel tests on the future fighter.
In its report for 2022 [.pdf], which it has just published, ONERA explains, in highly technical language, that these tests focused on the NGF's air intakes because "in supersonic conditions, separation can occur downstream of the shocks". The work also focused on a "technology based on porous walls", which should make it possible to improve both "their efficiency and their pumping margin". Dassault Aviation has also "supported the development and validation of the ZDES [Zonal Detached Eddy Simulation] turbulence modelling technique for air intakes".
That said, ONERA is also working to significantly improve the maoeuvrability of the NGF, as part of the SUPERMAN [SUPERMANoeuvrability] upstream research plan, financed from its own funds.
"A generic shape, which could be representative of the NGF, has been defined" in order to "experimentally characterise vortex flows at high incidence in order to establish the link between vortices and aerodynamic forces", ONERA explains.
Tests were carried out for this purpose in the 'low speed' wind tunnel in Lille, which is "ideal because it provides the necessary information by imposing oscillations on the model using a dedicated device: the pqR assembly [p: roll rate, q: pitch rate and R: yaw rate], which enables rotational movements to be imposed on the model in several directions", ONERA explains.
In short, the aim is to study the aircraft's behaviour at the limits of its flight envelope. And to improve its manoeuvrability, ONERA is taking a close interest in LEVCON-type control surfaces (Leading Edge Vortex Controlers), i.e. tiltable planes located on the fixed surfaces extending the root of the aircraft's wings (apex). The Russian 5th generation Su-57 'Felon' fighter-bomber is equipped with this system, as is the naval version of the Indian Tejas.
ONERA is also involved, alongside Safran and the French Defence Innovation Agency [AID], in the ADAMANT programme [Accélération du Développement d'Alliages et de Systèmes Multicouches pour Application à de Nouvelles Turbines], which aims to develop new metallic alloys for the turbine blades and discs of future NGF reactors. The agency has successfully tested an "artificial intelligence-based method" that can provide "predictions of hot material properties".
"Recent machine learning techniques have thus been used for the design of single-crystal nickel-based superalloys intended for high-pressure turbines in future engines", the annual report points out. /deepl
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FCAS? SCAF? Tempest? Explaining Europe's sixth-generation fighter efforts - Breaking Defense
In which the Breaking Defense team attempts to explain the differences between the UK-led FCAS, the Franco-German-Spanish FCAS, the UK-Italian-Japanese GCAP and all the other sixth-generation fighter development efforts in Europe.
A brief guide: The Future Combat Air System
The Future Combat Air System (FCAS) is the European air defense system that is set to enter into service in 2040.
aeroreport.de
The Rafale F5 and the Neuron derivative are a kind of 1.0 release for the SCAF. Already a system of systems.
In fact, those are the first components of the french SCG (Système de Combat Global ).
I hope the SCAF will fail. France can make a better and cheaper system alone.
In fact, those are the first components of the french SCG (Système de Combat Global ).
I hope the SCAF will fail. France can make a better and cheaper system alone.
The idea of making the SCAF programme a European programme is a politician's idea to promote Europe and win the votes of convinced Europeans. But a comparison of the Eurofighter programme and the Rafale programme shows that French industry is so much more efficient for such a programme than the Rafale programme was:
- less expensive for France than the share it would have had to pay to participate in the Eurofighter programme.
- for an aircraft that performs better overall and is better suited to France's needs.
- With export sales already higher than domestic sales and set to continue to rise, while Eurofighter export sales are barely 28% of domestic sales.
For example, Dassault has more than €9 billion in available cash. And in the civil sector, the development of new aircraft is financed by the industry with the support of the banks.
It will be more entertaining to watch, if it fails. No doubt it will be 'cheaper' France couldn't afford to do a proper 5/6th gen. It couldn't even afford to do the Rafale, as history shows. It was always a lack of money. It took to 2015, what should have been day 1. Even then it was still behind others.
A brief guide: The Future Combat Air System
The Future Combat Air System (FCAS) is the European air defense system that is set to enter into service in 2040.
aeroreport.de
What is MBDA's 'Expendable Remote Carrier,' the unmanned aide for the SCAF next-gen fighter? - Breaking Defense
The 400 kilogram, four-meter-long carrier “could be launched from any platform: an aircraft, a ship, a submarine, a vehicle or a drone,” MBDA's Jean Judde de Larivière said.
The choice is between 200+ FCAS for France alone and 500+ with France, Germany and Spain. And I think the Franco-German alliance has better sale prospects within Europe when the F-35 comes up for replacement.
Or the alternative is France makes a cheaper and better jet on its own, but Europe goes for UK's GCAP.
Doubtful. The F-35 should last long enough that the FCAS, if it actually ends up existing, will be a proven, mature platform when the JSF needs replacing. And so it will be "old" compared to whatever new aircraft is being developed by then by the USA. Kind of like what happened to the F-16 not being replaced by Rafale or Typhoon.
The timeframes are different. Most of Europe chose the F-16 and F/A-18 in the 80s and 90s, when Rafale and Typhoon were not available. And when it was time to replace them, the F-35 presented itself as a more modern replacement.
This time, most air forces are getting their jets between 2020 and 2030, so the replacement process will begin after 2045, 25 years later, just in time for FCAS, with replacements beginning anytime between 2050 and 2055 for different air forces. So the question is are we really gonna see an F-35 replacement within just 30-35 years? Rather what may be available then would be an F-35 B42/52 instead.
Given the potential threat environment by then, countries will have to decide between settling for a modernised F-35 or a more advanced FCAS/GCAP. Even if the US replaces the F-35 with another SE jet, some of the more serious air forces may prefer a capability upgrade over partnership with America, especially so if the Franco-German alliance becomes more serious about security in Europe than today, with the US distracted everywhere else due to the rise of the GS.
The "Espadon" hypersonic aircraft project could benefit the Air Combat System of the future (jul.02)
In its roadmap published in 2019, the Office national d'études et de recherches aérospatiales [ONERA] mentioned the launch of a hypersonic combat aircraft project that could "be extended to any mission of military interest" and should be "capable of long-duration high-altitude cruise, with overall aircraft-type operation, with horizontal take-off and landing phases on a runway and autonomous acceleration". And no more information was forthcoming...
That said, four years later, at the Paris Air Show, ONERA unveiled a model of this hypersonic aircraft, called "Espadon". But once again, it gave no further details of its intentions. So we had to wait a few days to find out more.
On 26 June, ONERA released a video in which its Director of Military Programmes, René Mathurin, summed up the issues involved in the Espadon project, which was commissioned by the French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA).
"ONERA's idea is not to build a [hypersonic] aircraft, but to look at the technologies that will be needed to produce one", said Mr Mathurin. The aim is therefore to draw up a "technological" roadmap based on the issues that need to be addressed.
"We are in discussions with the French Air Force, which is proposing certain types of mission, and we are looking at the type of aircraft that could meet their needs. After that, we carry out dimensioning and studies in all areas to produce such an aircraft", explained the head of ONERA.
Unsurprisingly, given the high temperatures generated during hypersonic flight, the question of materials is central. As, of course, are aerodynamics. Equally important is the ability to deploy weapons. "We're looking at how munitions can be dropped at high speed", emphasised Mr Mathurin.
But another "very important" aspect concerns "threat analysis", he insisted. "We are looking at who has what and which nations are going to work on this type of weapon in order to assess its impact on our current and future weapons systems", he explained.
However, the prospect of seeing a hypersonic aircraft designed using ONERA's work is still a long way off. "We're talking about 2050", said Mr Mathurin. However, the research is likely to feed into other ongoing programmes, such as the Future Air Combat System [SCAF], which brings together France, Germany and Spain.
"We're going to take a closer look at certain technologies and propose new designs. The benefit of this work will be that certain technological building blocks could be used for the SCAF. There is a long-term industrial interest," says Mr Mathurin. It remains to be seen what these "technological building blocks" will be.
As a reminder, the SCAF aims to develop a "system of systems" based on a new generation fighter aircraft (NGF - New Generation Fighter), accompanied by "loyal wingman" type drones and connected effectors. "We are also carrying out other work that I can't talk about because they are classified", Emmanuel Chiva, the Délégué général pour l'armement, recently said on the subject. /deeplend
Paris Air Show: SCAF Snuffed Out?
Jul. 17, 2023
(Source: Defense-Aerospace.com; posted July 17, 2023)
By Francis Tusa
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PARIS --- First piece of mood music: SCAF is not “officially dead”, but it is not far off. The mock-up, you know, the one without wheels that struggled to impress when we saw it four years ago, was back, on its Jack Jones in a pen which seemed to attract no-one at all. You might have thought that there would have been a new model, looking a bit more credible?You could look for signs of SCAF on Dassault’s stand and outdoor exhibits pretty much in vain. One wag suggested that the English version of the acronym “SCAF”, the confusing “FCAS” (the same as the UK’s ...) actually stood for “Forlorn Combat Air System” .... Oh, that was from a French observer, not some sale Rosbif!
But you would have been crushed by the number of different Rafale models, including a collection of 1:5-scale ones in the paint schemes of every operator. It looked good!
Any mention of SCAF in Dassault’s press conference?
If there was, it was so brief that Defence Analysis’s sharp-eared correspondent missed it – as did everyone else. For such a totemic programme to not even get name checked by Dassault Aviation’s Eric Trappier speaks volumes, if that isn’t tautological. Mr. Trappier was also rather offhand about SCAF in his pre-Show interviews, to put it mildly.
And two weeks previously, despite no mention of it in the Loi de Programmation Militaire 2024–30, Sebastien Lecornu told the Senate that the programme for a loyal wingman family, based on work done to date for the Neuron UCAV, was now fully funded, and it would see deliveries from 2030, and whatever is developed, as well as “effectors”, smaller UAVs/loyal wingmen will also feature, too, in this Rafale World. But if these start to arrive around 2030, what does this mean for the loyal wingman/effectors for SCAF? Hang on, who’s responsibility is loyal wingmen in SCAF? Oh, it’s Germany/Airbus Defence and Space....
And then at Le Bourget, Dassault and Dassault Systèmes announced a new initiative to create a French sovereign Combat Cloud, just, you know, if anyone wanted one. And whose responsibility is the Combat Cloud for SCAF (checks notes)? Oh, it’s (Germany’s) Airbus Defence and Space!
By-the-way, Defence Analysis suspects that Thales will have looked at this announcement with a degree of concern ....
Talks with Airbus Defence and Space, as well as corporate, really suggested to Defence Analysis that the company(s) just don’t “get” that the Franco-German defence/security relationship is not what is once was, that is the core of European defence. There was still a lot of, “but this is the motor of Europe, and there are no alternatives!”
Yes, but ....
Without getting into a fight with any tar babies, observers in Berlin/Munich might like to note what are seen in France as egregious insults: decision to buy P-8 MPAs, decision not to continue work on Tiger attack helicopter, withdrawal from a battlefield engagement missile family in favour of local production of an Israeli missile, and looking as if the next generation MBT will be “Leopard 2A8/9”, entirely German-dominated, as opposed to a bilateral programme.
There are still some (occasionally) warm words, as in Germany’s new security strategy, but one gets the impression that they were cut and pasted in from another document – the relations soured in 2020–22, and not only have not got better, they are still quietly – and irrevocably – deteriorating. "Germany: they’re just not that into you ....”
Oh, and Belgium entering SCAF, even “just” as an observer? French sources say, sure, but it’ll cost you €3–350m ....
Swordfish Enters
Just prior to the start of Le Bourget, Onera, the French state-owned aerospace test/trials body unveiled its concept for a hypersonic fighter, named “Espadon”, or “Swordfish”.
So what? Well, Onera says that this could see service around 2040. So what? Well, even Dassault is saying that SCAF will only see service from 2040 – and Airbus is saying 2042 – so if there’s this all-singing hypersonic fighter that could arrive only two to three years after SCAF/NGF enters service, why are you even bothering with SCAF NGF?
Onera says that it has wind-tunnel tested models for Espadon, scoping the art of the possible, and that key technology areas have been formally assessed.
Onera is looking at Mach 3–4 for the Espadon fighter [Author: isn’t hypersonic above Mach 5 ...?].
Yet another sign that France is giving up on SCAF, and looking for a Franco-French programme(s), likely then trying to get the current Rafale base to sign up.
It was never going to work.
www.flightglobal.com
www.flightglobal.com
Acceptance of Dassault lead role essential to FCAS survival says Trappier
Airbus's acceptance of Dassault's lead role in the critical next phase of the Franco-German-Spanish Future Combat Air System (FCAS) programme was essential to the effort to develop a sixth-generation fighter, says the French airframer's chief executive Eric Trappier.
www.flightglobal.com
Dassault chief concerned by impact of Germany on FCAS export sales
Dassault chief executive Eric Trappier has expressed his concern that German reluctance to sanction arms exports to certain countries will hamper the success of the trinational Future Combat Air System (FCAS). The French airframer, alongside Airbus and Indra, is developing the FCAS - including...
www.flightglobal.com
(A&C, aug.14)
Superman, combining manoeuvrability and stealth
Onera is working on the Superman project to define what tomorrow's fighter aircraft could be, with an aircraft that is both stealthy and manoeuvrable. A special feature of the project is the use of Levcon control surfaces, hitherto unheard of in France.Superman and supermanoeuvrability
Superman. This is one of the research programmes unveiled to the public by Onera during the visit by the DGA and DGAC to Modane, where part of the large wind tunnels are located, on 17 March 2023. The aim of this research programme is to study the behaviour of a combat aircraft at the limits of its flight envelope, with a view to preparing tools for the design and evaluation of future combat aircraft. Superman "refers to supermanoeuvrability. The survivability of a combat aircraft is the result of a compromise between manoeuvrability, stealth and speed", explains Eric Garnier, Deputy Director of the Aerodynamics, Aeroelasticity and Acoustics Department at Onera. "The fighter jets developed in Europe in the 1980s were designed with limited consideration of stealth constraints. The next generation of aircraft will have to achieve a more balanced compromise between the three components of survivability. The choice of name for the project is perhaps a little ill-chosen in that it may suggest extreme manoeuvrability, when in fact it's more a question of manoeuvrability under stealth constraints".
Reconciling stealth and manoeuvrability
Until now, stealth aircraft have not been very manoeuvrable, or at least their manoeuvrability has been inferior to that of other aircraft. But contrary to what you might think, it is possible to reconcile the two areas to a certain extent. "A machine like the F-22 is both manoeuvrable and stealthy. But at the risk of grumbling, the aerodynamic formula that is close to ideal for manoeuvrability remains that of an aircraft that is not stealthy. I'm thinking in particular of the Sukhoi 27 family. The versions derived from the Su-35 and those equipped with canard planes from the same aircraft manufacturer, with three-axis thrust vectoring, are a good example. In comparison, the F-22 has only two-axis vectoring thrust, complicated by the fact that it had to be made stealthy in the rear. Generally speaking, there is an antinomy here, because the greater the surface area of the vertical stabiliser, the greater the manoeuvrability of the aircraft and the less stealthy it is. So it's all a question of compromise. Finally, we mustn't neglect the specification aspect either. With the NGAD, for example, the Americans seem to want to create what they call a "command plane", an aircraft that flies very high, intended to be very stealthy, and which will direct other aircraft, including remote carriers. We can therefore imagine this aircraft not needing to be very manoeuvrable", comments Eric Garnier.
A beautiful baby with a 60 cm wingspan weighing 7 kg
Superman, for its part, is an aircraft that has not sacrificed too much manoeuvrability on the altar of stealth. "However, at Onera we are not in the process of designing a combat aircraft, but rather a generic form that is sufficiently realistic to have the same problems as those encountered on a real aircraft. The aircraft we have chosen is similar to the Sukhoi Su-57, in that it is a manoeuvrable aircraft that incorporates stealth constraints. The shapes are therefore a compromise between aerodynamics and stealth," adds Eric Garnier. The generic Superman model is on a scale of 1:25, with a wingspan of 60 cm for an equivalent length, and weighs around 7 kg. It is made of an aluminium alloy and its control surfaces are operated by servomotors. The model was blown in a research wind tunnel at Onera's Lille centre, the L1 horizontal wind tunnel. Tests are currently under way in the SV4 vertical wind tunnel at the Lille centre.
Levcon or Leading Edge Vortex Controllers
The tilting planes located at the apex are Levcon (acronym for Leading Edge Vortex Controlers). "These devices are of particular interest to us because they are supposed to control the vortices emitted at the leading edge of the wing. They have appeared on both the Su-57 and the Indian Navy's Tejas, but remain little known. In fact, it's the only control surface that we don't know enough about," comments Eric Garnier. The model has no air intake and/or nozzles. For the moment, only the wing and its interaction with the Levcon are being studied.
100 degrees per second
"In this project, we are not interested in the possible positioning of air inlets. However, we can expect interactions between the air inlets and the Levcon for certain ranges of incidence. However, the example of the Su-57 shows that this situation is manageable. It should also be noted that the model is a technical masterpiece: the control surfaces move at 100 degrees per second and their positioning is guaranteed to within 0.1 degrees. This is a technological feat to the credit of Onera's wind tunnel, engineering and model department in Lille", explains Eric Garnier. For the moment, the model has only been blown at 'low' speeds. "With the mobile levcon, we won't be able to go to high speed because they haven't been dimensioned in terms of effort for this purpose. The fixed version is feasible. The possible extensions to the model would be around a motor integration, a more complete set of control surfaces, and the increase in speed, since for the moment we are limited to around 200 kph. However, we have to remember that very high manoeuvrability is not possible at Mach 2," comments Eric Garnier. While the mock-up bears no resemblance to the silhouette of the Su-57, there are some notable differences.
A similar wing shape
"Although it is not a real fighter aircraft, the shape is both generic and realistic, so that both the aerodynamic and fluid mechanics problems are very similar to those of a fighter aircraft. This aircraft is a creation, as we are working within a NATO group. The plan form had been decided by other members of the group, who had not worked at all on the profiles, which were, after several iterations, chosen by ONERA. The generic shape of the aircraft, which is representative, includes the usual profiles found on combat aircraft, on which we worked on the camber, twist and leading edge radius to achieve something sufficiently realistic. The shape of the wing, seen from above, is very similar to that of the Su-57. The arrows are 45° at the root at Levcon level, then 75° and 45° again", explains Eric Garnier. In particular, work has been carried out on the spin laws, to limit the incidence at the wingtips and avoid stalling the wingtips first. In addition, "We concentrated particularly on pitch balance. At its cruising angle of attack, the aircraft's pitching moment is zero. We have worked to ensure that the pitch is balanced at both low and high speeds, i.e. up to Mach 0.85", adds Eric Garnier.
Levcon and vortex flows
Levcon is just one aspect of the project, with the characterisation of vortex flows another of Superman's subjects of study. "Vortices are areas of low pressure that translate into suction on the wall, in other words free vortex lift. Although airliners don't use this lift, combat aircraft use it a lot. There are crucial fluid mechanics issues here, including understanding the movement of these vortices, their intensity and their positioning. These phenomena will determine the aerodynamic forces and consequently the trajectory of the aircraft. Superman's aim is to make the link between these vortices and the forces and then from the forces to the trajectories, all in the presence of Levcon. If the Russians have called it a "controller", it's not without reason, since it's a control surface that controls the leading edge vortices. You can see on the images that when the Levcon is turned, the vortices move drastically", explains Eric Garnier. Aerodynamically, the Levcon modifies the pitching moment, i.e. the aircraft's balance. "In addition to the elevators, which can be reduced in size as a result (see A&C no. 2823 "Reducing the surface area of the vertical stabilizer and increasing its efficiency"), they provide the ability to pitch down at a higher rate. Typically, during a very sudden manoeuvre, during which a lot of energy has been lost with an aircraft positioned with its nose very high, the Levcon will allow the aircraft to return to a nose-down attitude to regain speed. So the Levcon manipulates these vortex flows," explains Eric Garnier.
Lighting up the future
Will the Levcon be used on future air combat aircraft? The answer cannot be affirmative for the moment, because the choice of whether or not to use them will be up to the manufacturers, i.e. the aircraft manufacturers, depending on the choices they make. However, Onera has provided interested parties with extensive documentation. "Our role is to shed light on the future by proposing new measurement methods, new actuation technologies and new modelling strategies, among other things," concludes Eric Garnier. /deepl
Wow, another article about (future of)6th gen aircraft/concept that mentions two things:
1. Su-30MKI's triplane with both pitch/yaw axis vectoring is best for maneuverability.
2. LEVCONS are future of stealth fighters that care about both stealth and maneuverability. Cough.. Su-57...cough.
@BMD who's having illusion now?