Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany

randomradio said:
The AMCA egg with 100% ToT and IPR will become an Indian egg, so it's not going to be a factor.
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Eventually, sure. But over the course of a 10-15 year development program, the JV partner can create roadblocks at any step.

randomradio said:
M2000I comes with 2 MCs, MDPU integrates core avionics and weapons systems and HAL MC integrates plug and play systems and acts as a translation device between French and Indian systems. The Rafale could become the same. The only thing extra on F-35I is it comes with some airframe modifications for Israeli antennas for comm and EW separate from the F-35's core avionics and comm, we don't need that on Rafale and M2000. Neither the Indians nor Israelis get access to core avionics.

It depends on the scale of the JV too. Rules will be different for equal partnership versus a junior partner. I'm thinking it will be the latter for the IAF.

Whether it's a JV or not, we will need 100% ToT for the airframe and engine, at least when combined with our own tech for denied tech. But if we replace the core avionics with Indian as well, then the business end of the JV will die due to lack of European workshare in the Indian version. That's why I think we will aim for 100% airframe and engine tech while using Europe's core avionics with some of our stuff jacked in from the side. This would also be the fastest.

SCAF's out and GCAP's workshare has already been decided. So a 5% junior partner or just an import partner is the best we can hope for if we join GCAP.

ADA screwed the pooch here. They are 5-10 years behind where they should have been right now.
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Assuming we are serious about FUFA as a prospective roadmap, taking the 'quickest & cheapest' method to get a local airframe/engine production/assembly line for FCAS should be a-okay.
 
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Parthu said:
Eventually, sure. But over the course of a 10-15 year development program, the JV partner can create roadblocks at any step.
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That will impact them too.

Parthu said:
Assuming we are serious about FUFA as a prospective roadmap, taking the 'quickest & cheapest' method to get a local airframe/engine production/assembly line for FCAS should be a-okay.
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With SCAF gone and GCAP being a risky program, I'd rather see us join up with Israel and get into an F-47I program. We only need 2 squadrons. Even the USAF is fine with 5 combat squadrons, that tells us how capable the aircraft will be. We can get it inducted between 2035 and 2040. And we need to go all-in on ADA's next gen, which can begin flying by the early-to-mid 2040s.

F-47 is meant to operate in isolation, so we will be able to operate it without support too. Stings attached, sure, but only impacts 2 squadrons and the Chinese will take over a decade more to catch up, which is more time for us.
 
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randomradio said:
That will impact them too.



With SCAF gone and GCAP being a risky program, I'd rather see us join up with Israel and get into an F-47I program. We only need 2 squadrons. Even the USAF is fine with 5 combat squadrons, that tells us how capable the aircraft will be. We can get it inducted between 2035 and 2040. And we need to go all-in on ADA's next gen, which can begin flying by the early-to-mid 2040s.

F-47 is meant to operate in isolation, so we will be able to operate it without support too. Stings attached, sure, but only impacts 2 squadrons and the Chinese will take over a decade more to catch up, which is more time for us.
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No American fighter jets for us. Mark it. And FYI, Su-57D/60MKI file has progressed much far.
 
France is a terrible partner when it comes to shared military programes. Its so amusing to watch armchair experts here, wanting India to hitch its wagon with said terrible partner hoping for miraculous outcomes that even other europeans couldnt achieve. Just pathetic!!!
 
The UAE was forced to pulled out from a deal to fund Rafale F5 because the French didn't budge on ToT. And the Emirates were the guys who'd paid DA a premium back in the day to build them a custom M2000-9 variant with advanced EW and weapons integration.

No way we'd have gotten any worthwhile tech from SCAF even if the prog had not been abandoned. We've barely managed to get access to ICDs on an eventual order of 200+ Rafale
 
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